Discussion
Let me start by saying I'm an electronic/auto-electric biff!
Firstly - can anyone confirm to me please this is the connection for an OBD2 reader:
I'm building a kit cat - a Mk6 Mini Marcos which I'm building as an MPI (injection) car.
I've rebuilt the engine (1342cc, SW5i cam) and am having problems getting it started.
Now I have the matched ECU/Alarm/Key fob that the Mini/Rover require, but is there a (cheap-ish) OBD2 reader that can work with the Mini/Rover system? I know the Sykes Pickavant units with Mini/Rover module appear on ebay occasionally but these are normally priced at several hundred pounds - beyond my budget at the minute.
As the MM won't start (turns over enough to get the oil light flickering off, and I've got a spark) I'm wondering if one or more of the sensors isn't working.
Is there an easy way of checking the injectors are working correctly (to make sure fuel is getting through)?
Several questions there - I'm hoping someone can suggest where to look next
Firstly - can anyone confirm to me please this is the connection for an OBD2 reader:
I'm building a kit cat - a Mk6 Mini Marcos which I'm building as an MPI (injection) car.
I've rebuilt the engine (1342cc, SW5i cam) and am having problems getting it started.
Now I have the matched ECU/Alarm/Key fob that the Mini/Rover require, but is there a (cheap-ish) OBD2 reader that can work with the Mini/Rover system? I know the Sykes Pickavant units with Mini/Rover module appear on ebay occasionally but these are normally priced at several hundred pounds - beyond my budget at the minute.
As the MM won't start (turns over enough to get the oil light flickering off, and I've got a spark) I'm wondering if one or more of the sensors isn't working.
Is there an easy way of checking the injectors are working correctly (to make sure fuel is getting through)?
Several questions there - I'm hoping someone can suggest where to look next
That looks like an OBD2 connector.
Do you need a specific reader for that ECU? I'd try using a cheap generic bluetooth OBD2 connector and Torque Lite or similar freeware app for display.
There are some diagnostic tools that you will find invaluable figuring out why your engine isn't firing.
Fuel pressure gauge.
Passive HT strobe light in series with #1 HT lead.
NOID injector diagnostic light in parallel with any accessible injector.
My first step would be to confirm that you have electrical connectivity from each sensor to the ECU plug, check whether either injectors or coils are being triggered by the ECU. If not, confirm that you are getting a good signal from the crank position sensor while cranking. If the ECU drives the rev counter, seeing the rev counter showing a couple of hundred rpm while cranking would be all you need. If you have access to OBD2 diagnostics that would be another way. Failing that, or if they don't show any signal, you would need to disconnect the crank position sensor from the ECU and connect it to an oscilloscope; you would also need to know what type of sensor it is i.e. hall effect or MVR
Do you need a specific reader for that ECU? I'd try using a cheap generic bluetooth OBD2 connector and Torque Lite or similar freeware app for display.
There are some diagnostic tools that you will find invaluable figuring out why your engine isn't firing.
Fuel pressure gauge.
Passive HT strobe light in series with #1 HT lead.
NOID injector diagnostic light in parallel with any accessible injector.
My first step would be to confirm that you have electrical connectivity from each sensor to the ECU plug, check whether either injectors or coils are being triggered by the ECU. If not, confirm that you are getting a good signal from the crank position sensor while cranking. If the ECU drives the rev counter, seeing the rev counter showing a couple of hundred rpm while cranking would be all you need. If you have access to OBD2 diagnostics that would be another way. Failing that, or if they don't show any signal, you would need to disconnect the crank position sensor from the ECU and connect it to an oscilloscope; you would also need to know what type of sensor it is i.e. hall effect or MVR
Cheap bluetooth OBD reader will do the job £10-£20,
I have this one and its the best investment I ever made.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/ijq/Torque-Pro-Elm-327-...
Invest in the torque app its a couple of quid in the app store.
I have this one and its the best investment I ever made.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/ijq/Torque-Pro-Elm-327-...
Invest in the torque app its a couple of quid in the app store.
I don't have any experience with the Mini MPi setup, but certainly on K-series cars the OBD connectors were fitted from the early 90's onwards, but OBD2 compliance wasn't introduced until 2001. So simply having the connector does automatically mean an OBD2 reader will work.
Looking at the ECU I suspect its a MEMS1.6 or 1.9 ECU which isn't OBD2 complaint. OBD2 Compliance was introduced with the MEMS3, and those ECU's are wedge shaped.
If it isn't OBD2 complaint, then it limits the options for diagnostics and rules out most of the very cheap solutions. Most Land rover dealers and some MGR specialist have a T4 testbook that will work, but another alternative I know of is pscan tool, which is a bit more expansive than an OBD2 reader, however if you have a 5AS security ECU it will also allow you to program new key fobs, and also connects to the ABS and air bag ECU's, so does more than an OBD2 reader.
http://www.pscan.eu/
Looking at the ECU I suspect its a MEMS1.6 or 1.9 ECU which isn't OBD2 complaint. OBD2 Compliance was introduced with the MEMS3, and those ECU's are wedge shaped.
If it isn't OBD2 complaint, then it limits the options for diagnostics and rules out most of the very cheap solutions. Most Land rover dealers and some MGR specialist have a T4 testbook that will work, but another alternative I know of is pscan tool, which is a bit more expansive than an OBD2 reader, however if you have a 5AS security ECU it will also allow you to program new key fobs, and also connects to the ABS and air bag ECU's, so does more than an OBD2 reader.
http://www.pscan.eu/
Edited by MGSteve on Wednesday 19th April 21:14
Edited by MGSteve on Wednesday 19th April 21:16
MGSteve said:
I don't have any experience with the Mini MPi setup, but certainly on K-series cars the OBD connectors were fitted from the early 90's onwards, but OBD2 compliance wasn't introduced until 2001. So simply having the connector does automatically mean an OBD2 reader will work.
Looking at the ECU I suspect its a MEMS1.6 or 1.9 ECU which isn't OBD2 complaint. OBD2 Compliance was introduced with the MEMS3, and those ECU's are wedge shaped.
If it isn't OBD2 complaint, then it limits the options for diagnostics and rules out most of the very cheap solutions. Most Land rover dealers and some MGR specialist have a T4 testbook that will work, but another alternative I know of is pscan tool, which is a bit more expansive than an OBD2 reader, however if you have a 5AS security ECU it will also allow you to program new key fobs, and also connects to the ABS and air bag ECU's, so does more than an OBD2 reader.
http://www.pscan.eu/
Just to add to the above, if that is the early Mems unit then I've used an android app called "Mems_Diag" on a kindle fire to read the 1.9 on my K series Elise. It's not as comprehensive as pscan but there's a free version (Lite) so you can check if it works for you and IIRC the full version was around £8-ish. Looking at the ECU I suspect its a MEMS1.6 or 1.9 ECU which isn't OBD2 complaint. OBD2 Compliance was introduced with the MEMS3, and those ECU's are wedge shaped.
If it isn't OBD2 complaint, then it limits the options for diagnostics and rules out most of the very cheap solutions. Most Land rover dealers and some MGR specialist have a T4 testbook that will work, but another alternative I know of is pscan tool, which is a bit more expansive than an OBD2 reader, however if you have a 5AS security ECU it will also allow you to program new key fobs, and also connects to the ABS and air bag ECU's, so does more than an OBD2 reader.
http://www.pscan.eu/
Lord_Dilly said:
Cheap bluetooth OBD reader will do the job £10-£20,
I have this one and its the best investment I ever made.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/ijq/Torque-Pro-Elm-327-...
Invest in the torque app its a couple of quid in the app store.
Does nobody know of an equivalent for IOS, specifically for Dash Commander?I have this one and its the best investment I ever made.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/ijq/Torque-Pro-Elm-327-...
Invest in the torque app its a couple of quid in the app store.
Thanks
Dave
HappyMidget said:
E-bmw said:
A bluetooth device is a bluetooth device is a bluetooth device.
Any bluetooth interface works to any bluetooth enabled smartphone. The only phone brand specific part is the software aka the app itself.
Not IOS iirc, think you need a Wi-Fi rather than Bluetooth adapter.Any bluetooth interface works to any bluetooth enabled smartphone. The only phone brand specific part is the software aka the app itself.
Example:
https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/bluedriver-obd2-sc...
Mr2Mike said:
E-bmw said:
A bluetooth device is a bluetooth device is a bluetooth device.
Any bluetooth interface works to any bluetooth enabled smartphone.
Not so, there are numerous different bluetooth profiles and not all are supported by all phones and devices..Any bluetooth interface works to any bluetooth enabled smartphone.
MGSteve said:
I don't have any experience with the Mini MPi setup, but certainly on K-series cars the OBD connectors were fitted from the early 90's onwards, but OBD2 compliance wasn't introduced until 2001. So simply having the connector does automatically mean an OBD2 reader will work.
Looking at the ECU I suspect its a MEMS1.6 or 1.9 ECU which isn't OBD2 complaint. OBD2 Compliance was introduced with the MEMS3, and those ECU's are wedge shaped.
If it isn't OBD2 complaint, then it limits the options for diagnostics and rules out most of the very cheap solutions. Most Land rover dealers and some MGR specialist have a T4 testbook that will work, but another alternative I know of is pscan tool, which is a bit more expansive than an OBD2 reader, however if you have a 5AS security ECU it will also allow you to program new key fobs, and also connects to the ABS and air bag ECU's, so does more than an OBD2 reader.
http://www.pscan.eu/
All, sorry for the late response - I only get on here at the weekend.Looking at the ECU I suspect its a MEMS1.6 or 1.9 ECU which isn't OBD2 complaint. OBD2 Compliance was introduced with the MEMS3, and those ECU's are wedge shaped.
If it isn't OBD2 complaint, then it limits the options for diagnostics and rules out most of the very cheap solutions. Most Land rover dealers and some MGR specialist have a T4 testbook that will work, but another alternative I know of is pscan tool, which is a bit more expansive than an OBD2 reader, however if you have a 5AS security ECU it will also allow you to program new key fobs, and also connects to the ABS and air bag ECU's, so does more than an OBD2 reader.
http://www.pscan.eu/
MGSteve - I think you've identified my problem accurately. From my limited knowledge of the Rover system, they used the OBD11 connection but had dedicated software, hence the Sykes Pickavant dedicated module, which as I say does appear occasionally but is a bit expensive.
I'd hoped in the years since Rover went under there might have been a cheap alternative produced to support these, now older, cars.
As you mention, the ECU isn't wedge shaped - I believe it is the MEMS 2J unit fitted to the mini (I also have a 1999 mini as well as the MM).
I'll have a look at the pscan unit you mention. I do know the key fob needs to be matched (and have a replacement key fob to replace the somewhat worn unit on the MM).
Thanks, All, once again.
Re. the iPhone thing, there's a combination of two problems which combine to make most Bluetooth OBD readers fail to work.
Firstly, Apple being Apple require any bluetooth device connected to their hardware to be "Make For iOS" cerfitied and cheap OBD dongles are generally not (presumably because the certification process requires paying Apple lots of money). Secondly, as others have said above, most Bluetooth OBD dongles use SPP (basically a specific protocol for tunneling RS232 over Bluetooth) which Apple simply don't support (or at least they didn't used to on older iPhones, I don't know about newer stuff).
There may well be some Bluetooth OBD dongles which do work with iPhones, but the generic ELM knockoffs do not.
Firstly, Apple being Apple require any bluetooth device connected to their hardware to be "Make For iOS" cerfitied and cheap OBD dongles are generally not (presumably because the certification process requires paying Apple lots of money). Secondly, as others have said above, most Bluetooth OBD dongles use SPP (basically a specific protocol for tunneling RS232 over Bluetooth) which Apple simply don't support (or at least they didn't used to on older iPhones, I don't know about newer stuff).
There may well be some Bluetooth OBD dongles which do work with iPhones, but the generic ELM knockoffs do not.
Edited by kambites on Monday 24th April 08:29
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