Impact Driver of max 120 Nm won't undo 90Nm wheel bolt
Discussion
freecar said:
Difficult question as air tools have a habit of needing more than just buying and using.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Facom-NS-1600F-Pneumatic-...
Is only 4" from front to back so you can see that it would get into places that cordless cannot dare! However if the airline bore is too small, the compressor not man enough to flow that much air or the fitting being poor quality and not free flowing then it will not reach it's specified torque value.
DC on the other hand will achieve it's working torque with a fully charged battery nothing more complex than that. But to get truly large torque figures you are looking at a sizable motor, with air all you need is the hammer, the air does the rest. Watch a few teardowns and you'll see how simple the air ones are compared to DC.
If access is no problem, a good DC machine is a far superior piece of kit, not needing an airline gives more flexibility. For out and out power air is where it's at but at a cost of other expensive machinery.
That Facom wrench is still powerful that mine. As a bare unit it is cheaper for sure and it's also smaller and lighter. However, what will it cost to buy and install enough compressor (3ph) with enough hose (12m?) to run it? Then I'm still limited to using it in the workshop. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Facom-NS-1600F-Pneumatic-...
Is only 4" from front to back so you can see that it would get into places that cordless cannot dare! However if the airline bore is too small, the compressor not man enough to flow that much air or the fitting being poor quality and not free flowing then it will not reach it's specified torque value.
DC on the other hand will achieve it's working torque with a fully charged battery nothing more complex than that. But to get truly large torque figures you are looking at a sizable motor, with air all you need is the hammer, the air does the rest. Watch a few teardowns and you'll see how simple the air ones are compared to DC.
If access is no problem, a good DC machine is a far superior piece of kit, not needing an airline gives more flexibility. For out and out power air is where it's at but at a cost of other expensive machinery.
Willy Nilly said:
freecar said:
Difficult question as air tools have a habit of needing more than just buying and using.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Facom-NS-1600F-Pneumatic-...
Is only 4" from front to back so you can see that it would get into places that cordless cannot dare! However if the airline bore is too small, the compressor not man enough to flow that much air or the fitting being poor quality and not free flowing then it will not reach it's specified torque value.
DC on the other hand will achieve it's working torque with a fully charged battery nothing more complex than that. But to get truly large torque figures you are looking at a sizable motor, with air all you need is the hammer, the air does the rest. Watch a few teardowns and you'll see how simple the air ones are compared to DC.
If access is no problem, a good DC machine is a far superior piece of kit, not needing an airline gives more flexibility. For out and out power air is where it's at but at a cost of other expensive machinery.
That Facom wrench is still powerful that mine. As a bare unit it is cheaper for sure and it's also smaller and lighter. However, what will it cost to buy and install enough compressor (3ph) with enough hose (12m?) to run it? Then I'm still limited to using it in the workshop. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Facom-NS-1600F-Pneumatic-...
Is only 4" from front to back so you can see that it would get into places that cordless cannot dare! However if the airline bore is too small, the compressor not man enough to flow that much air or the fitting being poor quality and not free flowing then it will not reach it's specified torque value.
DC on the other hand will achieve it's working torque with a fully charged battery nothing more complex than that. But to get truly large torque figures you are looking at a sizable motor, with air all you need is the hammer, the air does the rest. Watch a few teardowns and you'll see how simple the air ones are compared to DC.
If access is no problem, a good DC machine is a far superior piece of kit, not needing an airline gives more flexibility. For out and out power air is where it's at but at a cost of other expensive machinery.
As you and I said though, it's the cost of the associated hardware that starts to eat into things plus the practicality of being tied to the power source. Of course once you start to look at multiple tools, the savings can start to make sense in a workshop scenario. You still can't get away from the compressor mind!
I would wager that your air wrench would perform better with a larger bore fitting and airline, AvE did a quick and dirty test to improve the air delivery to one of his wrenches which was successful picking up performance gains by improving air flow.
One further point is comparing of specification, are you looking at the "nutbusting" or "breakaway" torque figures? These numbers are meaningless marketing with no real way of measuring, I know directly from the makers that some of them just look at what their competitors are claiming and make their numbers up to be commensurate with them! The working torque is a measured value and appears on the certification reports from the various testing houses that ensure compliance to safety and manufacturing standards. This is a measurable metric and the only true comparison of machines.
Don't take anything I say as a dig, I'm not trying to tell anyone that they're wrong, I'm just passionate about tools.
freecar said:
The link was just the first small form factor wrench I found, I have details of loads of others with a lot more power but straight from the manufacturers, I don't actually know which brand carries them yet.
As you and I said though, it's the cost of the associated hardware that starts to eat into things plus the practicality of being tied to the power source. Of course once you start to look at multiple tools, the savings can start to make sense in a workshop scenario. You still can't get away from the compressor mind!
I would wager that your air wrench would perform better with a larger bore fitting and airline, AvE did a quick and dirty test to improve the air delivery to one of his wrenches which was successful picking up performance gains by improving air flow.
One further point is comparing of specification, are you looking at the "nutbusting" or "breakaway" torque figures? These numbers are meaningless marketing with no real way of measuring, I know directly from the makers that some of them just look at what their competitors are claiming and make their numbers up to be commensurate with them! The working torque is a measured value and appears on the certification reports from the various testing houses that ensure compliance to safety and manufacturing standards. This is a measurable metric and the only true comparison of machines.
Don't take anything I say as a dig, I'm not trying to tell anyone that they're wrong, I'm just passionate about tools.
I'll give you some background.As you and I said though, it's the cost of the associated hardware that starts to eat into things plus the practicality of being tied to the power source. Of course once you start to look at multiple tools, the savings can start to make sense in a workshop scenario. You still can't get away from the compressor mind!
I would wager that your air wrench would perform better with a larger bore fitting and airline, AvE did a quick and dirty test to improve the air delivery to one of his wrenches which was successful picking up performance gains by improving air flow.
One further point is comparing of specification, are you looking at the "nutbusting" or "breakaway" torque figures? These numbers are meaningless marketing with no real way of measuring, I know directly from the makers that some of them just look at what their competitors are claiming and make their numbers up to be commensurate with them! The working torque is a measured value and appears on the certification reports from the various testing houses that ensure compliance to safety and manufacturing standards. This is a measurable metric and the only true comparison of machines.
Don't take anything I say as a dig, I'm not trying to tell anyone that they're wrong, I'm just passionate about tools.
I work on a farm, but don't like to talk about it.... and am an employee. I buy my own hand tools because, err, well, erm, well, I just ike having them and found a way to get to tax back.
A few times each year we change the wheels on tractors and the sprayers and from time to time have punctures.
The wheels on the tractors need a 32mm socket and the CP749 won't look at them. So I bought a Clarke telescopic 3/4 inch drive ratchet which makes it a piece of piss to undo and tighten, but they still need buzzing off. Trouble is, the wide tyres have a really deep dish which needs a 16-inch socket extension which makes operating the manual ratchet a two man job.
I've looked at a bigger air wrench but we are short of air as it is and to be honest I don't fully understand the figures to interpret what our compressor would run and besides, I'm not buying a compressor or wider air line. I did look at the specs of our CP wrench and other 1/2 inch drive air wrenches and couldn't find one that would get near what I ended up with even if we had enough air.
Next job was to compare cordless impacts. I looked at them all and got it down to the Milwaukee, Dewalt and Makita 18v impacts with circa 1000nm. They all boasted various "nut busting" figures, so I checked online and there didn't appear to be much in it. Milwaukee appeared to be a brand of such and such a company, Dewalt seemed to be a brand of Black and Decker and it appears Makita just make tools, so kudos to them. Milwaukee looked bloody expensive, but I found a good deal at SGS Engineering, but they'd "sold out". The next batch would be the latest models which were far too expensive to me. So I went to LAMMA to look at some in the flesh and was offered a good deal on the big 1/2 inch drive Makita, 5amp battery and charger so bought it.
So far it has been an utter revelation, it's scoffed at everything I've asked it to do and that big 3/4 inch drive extendable ratchet is just for checking they are tight enough now. It will even remove and retighten the nuts on all 4 tractor wheels with a 32mm socket on it with one charge. Just. I'm thinking an additional battery is going to be a useful addition. The biggest issue I have now getting the nuts too tight and stripping the threads.
So I did do my homework. Maybe that Facom wrench would do if I could feed it enough air, but I can't and the 150nm shortfall of torque may be academic if I could. Who knows.
A couple of questions:
I've got a selection of impact sockets, Teng, King Dick, Britool and ISS of the top of my head. Is there any brand you would recommend, they've all been fine and it's not like I use them all of the time.
Also, impact drivers. From time to time I get hex bolts that get stuck, 5,6,7mm sort of size, I've got one one on the bales blade that I know will be a pain to get off. So is this a job for a 18v driver or wold one of the manual ones that you hit with a hammer ba a better tool? And there seems to be a various bit drive sizes to use.
Thanks.
Edited by Willy Nilly on Wednesday 19th September 13:52
Willy Nilly said:
freecar said:
The link was just the first small form factor wrench I found, I have details of loads of others with a lot more power but straight from the manufacturers, I don't actually know which brand carries them yet.
As you and I said though, it's the cost of the associated hardware that starts to eat into things plus the practicality of being tied to the power source. Of course once you start to look at multiple tools, the savings can start to make sense in a workshop scenario. You still can't get away from the compressor mind!
I would wager that your air wrench would perform better with a larger bore fitting and airline, AvE did a quick and dirty test to improve the air delivery to one of his wrenches which was successful picking up performance gains by improving air flow.
One further point is comparing of specification, are you looking at the "nutbusting" or "breakaway" torque figures? These numbers are meaningless marketing with no real way of measuring, I know directly from the makers that some of them just look at what their competitors are claiming and make their numbers up to be commensurate with them! The working torque is a measured value and appears on the certification reports from the various testing houses that ensure compliance to safety and manufacturing standards. This is a measurable metric and the only true comparison of machines.
Don't take anything I say as a dig, I'm not trying to tell anyone that they're wrong, I'm just passionate about tools.
I'll give you some background.As you and I said though, it's the cost of the associated hardware that starts to eat into things plus the practicality of being tied to the power source. Of course once you start to look at multiple tools, the savings can start to make sense in a workshop scenario. You still can't get away from the compressor mind!
I would wager that your air wrench would perform better with a larger bore fitting and airline, AvE did a quick and dirty test to improve the air delivery to one of his wrenches which was successful picking up performance gains by improving air flow.
One further point is comparing of specification, are you looking at the "nutbusting" or "breakaway" torque figures? These numbers are meaningless marketing with no real way of measuring, I know directly from the makers that some of them just look at what their competitors are claiming and make their numbers up to be commensurate with them! The working torque is a measured value and appears on the certification reports from the various testing houses that ensure compliance to safety and manufacturing standards. This is a measurable metric and the only true comparison of machines.
Don't take anything I say as a dig, I'm not trying to tell anyone that they're wrong, I'm just passionate about tools.
I work on a farm, but don't like to talk about it.... and am an employee. I buy my own hand tools because, err, well, erm, well, I just ike having them and found a way to get to tax back.
A few times each year we change the wheels on tractors and the sprayers and from time to time have punctures.
The wheels on the tractors need a 32mm socket and the CP749 won't look at them. So I bought a Clarke telescopic 3/4 inch drive ratchet which makes it a piece of piss to undo and tighten, but they still need buzzing off. Trouble is, the wide tyres have a really deep dish which needs a 16-inch socket extension which makes operating the manual ratchet a two man job.
I've looked at a bigger air wrench but we are short of air as it is and to be honest I don't fully understand the figures to interpret what our compressor would run and besides, I'm not buying a compressor or wider air line. I did look at the specs of our CP wrench and other 1/2 inch drive air wrenches and couldn't find one that would get near what I ended up with even if we had enough air.
Next job was to compare cordless impacts. I looked at them all and got it down to the Milwaukee, Dewalt and Makita 18v impacts with circa 1000nm. They all boasted various "nut busting" figures, so I checked online and there didn't appear to be much in it. Milwaukee appeared to be a brand of such and such a company, Dewalt seemed to be a brand of Black and Decker and it appears Makita just make tools, so kudos to them. Milwaukee looked bloody expensive, but I found a good deal at SGS Engineering, but they'd "sold out". The next batch would be the latest models which were far too expensive to me. So I went to LAMMA to look at some in the flesh and was offered a good deal on the big 1/2 inch drive Makita, 5amp battery and charger so bought it.
So far it has been an utter revelation, it's scoffed at everything I've asked it to do and that big 3/4 inch drive extendable ratchet is just for checking they are tight enough now. It will even remove and retighten the nuts on all 4 tractor wheels with a 32mm socket on it with one charge. Just. I'm thinking an additional battery is going to be a useful addition. The biggest issue I have now getting the nuts too tight and stripping the threads.
So I did do my homework. Maybe that Facom wrench would do if I could feed it enough air, but I can't and the 150nm shortfall of torque may be academic if I could. Who knows.
A couple of questions:
I've got a selection of impact sockets, Teng, King Dick, Britool and ISS of the top of my head. Is there any brand you would recommend, they've all been fine and it's not like I use them all of the time.
Also, impact drivers. From time to time I get hex bolts that get stuck, 5,6,7mm sort of size, I've got one one on the bales blade that I know will be a pain to get off. So is this a job for a 18v driver or wold one of the manual ones that you hit with a hammer ba a better tool? And there seems to be a various bit drive sizes to use.
Thanks.
Edited by Willy Nilly on Wednesday 19th September 13:52
Impact sockets are much of a muchness, as long as they are "impact" sockets, as chrome vanadium are too hard and brittle and can tear the drive off of your tool! OR worse they shatter as they cannot stand the style of motion, being propelled by a sequence of bangs rather than a steady twist. Make sure all accessories are impact versions too, extensions especially.
Impact drivers would work great for your hex bolts, just make sure to use impact bits and make sure the bit fits well, sometimes the bit won't fit exactly as it is imperial not metric, it is worth getting as many bits as you can as a poorly fitted bit will destroy the fastener double quick! Also alignment is crucial, with very little contact area between tool and fastener, any misalignment would cause damage and possibly render the fastener useless.
A good impact driver will also put 4" screws in with no pilot, quite the piece of kit they are!
I have a cousin who is a heavy lorry mechanic that can undo stuff no electric impact gun can manage.....
In fact I have access to air and there are some nuts/bolts that it can’t undo, usually because it rips the corners off.
Enter the controlled force of a Diesel fitter (he has a sawn off 18lb sledge hammer, I kid you not) a Socket driver in his hand, he feels the force, maybe adds some leverage with a long bar, a tap with a well placed ball pien hammer, perhaps some heat, the bolt/nut gives up, sooo easy
In fact I have access to air and there are some nuts/bolts that it can’t undo, usually because it rips the corners off.
Enter the controlled force of a Diesel fitter (he has a sawn off 18lb sledge hammer, I kid you not) a Socket driver in his hand, he feels the force, maybe adds some leverage with a long bar, a tap with a well placed ball pien hammer, perhaps some heat, the bolt/nut gives up, sooo easy
For those worried about stripping bolts when tightening them using a impact driver/wrench invest in some torque sticks, they basically cap the force you can put into the bolt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fTk-f4TLMs
Best practice would be to only use the impact driver for disassembly and use a calibrated torque wrench for assembly, so many times tyre fitters will just use an impact driver on the bolts and then if you break down outside it's impossible to remove them using the oem nut removal bar in the boot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fTk-f4TLMs
Best practice would be to only use the impact driver for disassembly and use a calibrated torque wrench for assembly, so many times tyre fitters will just use an impact driver on the bolts and then if you break down outside it's impossible to remove them using the oem nut removal bar in the boot.
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