First time Cylinder Dismantle: mysterious spring
Discussion
I'm dismantling a Cylinder Head (Peugeot / Citroen XUD9A) for the first time and the first Valve Spring I removed, I found this very small Spring sitting beside the Valve in the 'Recess' of the Head.
My initial thought was that it's part of the retaining hardware, which is comprised of a pair of Collets, but I've found no such springs having removed three further Valves.
Its comprised of a very small expansion spring, wound around in a circle and joined to form a 'ring'
Haynes 950 "Peugeot Talbot Diesel Engine", refers to two springs; which worries me....
Chapter 1, Section 10, Item 6
but more happily, Haynes 3198 Peugeot 405 Diesel states in Chapter 2B: Section 6, Item 5 that "some engines have double valve springs" .
The Published dates are 1994, 1996, so they're both 'older' Haynes manuals.
The Valve Springs seem to go back in just fine, with only the Collets, and appear to be secure, though its not possible of course to have them operating at the sort of frequency that will be involved at real engine speeds.
I'm also going to be looking for assistance with physically seeing where my Head Gasket has blown; I know it has, but inspecting it, I see no physical evidence (though I'm not really sure what I'm looking for)
...'how clean' my Head has to be prior to refitting. I don't think I'm going to get it looking sparkly like the images I see online.
...and whether the 'Ruler' trick and the 'Glass' trick, which I've seen online and in Haynes manuals; are reliable, both of which suggest my Heads aren't warped.
I have two spare engines, both with Head Gasket failure; and both of which I've removed the Heads from; plus a third engine in my 405, which also has Head Gasket issues.
I'll also be happy to share my images of various tools I've improvised in the course of these works, which I'm quite chuffed with; they've cost me nothing and work quite effectively.
My initial thought was that it's part of the retaining hardware, which is comprised of a pair of Collets, but I've found no such springs having removed three further Valves.
Its comprised of a very small expansion spring, wound around in a circle and joined to form a 'ring'
Haynes 950 "Peugeot Talbot Diesel Engine", refers to two springs; which worries me....
Chapter 1, Section 10, Item 6
but more happily, Haynes 3198 Peugeot 405 Diesel states in Chapter 2B: Section 6, Item 5 that "some engines have double valve springs" .
The Published dates are 1994, 1996, so they're both 'older' Haynes manuals.
The Valve Springs seem to go back in just fine, with only the Collets, and appear to be secure, though its not possible of course to have them operating at the sort of frequency that will be involved at real engine speeds.
I'm also going to be looking for assistance with physically seeing where my Head Gasket has blown; I know it has, but inspecting it, I see no physical evidence (though I'm not really sure what I'm looking for)
...'how clean' my Head has to be prior to refitting. I don't think I'm going to get it looking sparkly like the images I see online.
...and whether the 'Ruler' trick and the 'Glass' trick, which I've seen online and in Haynes manuals; are reliable, both of which suggest my Heads aren't warped.
I have two spare engines, both with Head Gasket failure; and both of which I've removed the Heads from; plus a third engine in my 405, which also has Head Gasket issues.
I'll also be happy to share my images of various tools I've improvised in the course of these works, which I'm quite chuffed with; they've cost me nothing and work quite effectively.
Cor, that was quick. Thank You !!
y'know, I had to take a photo to see it, the Oil Seals are deeply recessed on this Head so 'visibility' isn't wondeful; but now I see it
Thanks again.
...and while I'm on a roll, Head Gaskets...
...so the one closest to the Head has obviously suffered from lack of Coolant changes, causing the holes in the HG to silt up and block the Waterways.... And is that an issue right in the middle, between the compression rings of 3 & 2 pots? It had a fairly minor 'weep', was pressurising but running well (with its Coolant Filler cap removed, airlocking elsewise).
...whereas the one closest to camera had a really major blow, it blew copious amounts of blue/grey smoke on cold start (but Glowplugs weren't good either), video available; had Dark Brown Coolant, an empty Sump and ran sweetly as anything for 10mins before I got the spanners out and relieved the vehicle of its engine & box....
I'd expected to find a very obviously failed Head Gasket when I removed the Head, and I did wipe a heck of a lot of oil off it; but it seems remarkably 'sound', especially for such a severe fail. I note that (maybe) the two tiny holes in much the same place, between 3 & 2 pots are blocked but that's not enough... is it?
....could those being blocked force oil between the HG and its mating faces thereby compromising the seal?
....and might this central spot be the place to especially careful that the Head isn't warped. I'd like to get it skimmed, but that might not be practical at the moment.
y'know, I had to take a photo to see it, the Oil Seals are deeply recessed on this Head so 'visibility' isn't wondeful; but now I see it
Thanks again.
...and while I'm on a roll, Head Gaskets...
...so the one closest to the Head has obviously suffered from lack of Coolant changes, causing the holes in the HG to silt up and block the Waterways.... And is that an issue right in the middle, between the compression rings of 3 & 2 pots? It had a fairly minor 'weep', was pressurising but running well (with its Coolant Filler cap removed, airlocking elsewise).
...whereas the one closest to camera had a really major blow, it blew copious amounts of blue/grey smoke on cold start (but Glowplugs weren't good either), video available; had Dark Brown Coolant, an empty Sump and ran sweetly as anything for 10mins before I got the spanners out and relieved the vehicle of its engine & box....
I'd expected to find a very obviously failed Head Gasket when I removed the Head, and I did wipe a heck of a lot of oil off it; but it seems remarkably 'sound', especially for such a severe fail. I note that (maybe) the two tiny holes in much the same place, between 3 & 2 pots are blocked but that's not enough... is it?
....could those being blocked force oil between the HG and its mating faces thereby compromising the seal?
....and might this central spot be the place to especially careful that the Head isn't warped. I'd like to get it skimmed, but that might not be practical at the moment.
On the subject of head gaskets.
Having learnt the hard way (Ford Essex V6) I source hgs from a franchised dealer where possible. That way if there have been changes you are likely to get the latest evolution.
Had occasion to replace the hg due to an oil leak on one of our 306, a 1.6 petrol.
The removed gasket was a composite gasket, much the same as those in your pic.
The replacement on offer from local motor factors was also a composite.
A check with the local Pug dealer's parts dept revealed that the latest genuine parts gasket for that engine was a multi layer steel which suggests to me that Peugeot were aware of issues with the composite ones.
No issues after fitting & FAIK the composite might have done a perfectly fine job but I raise it as something you might want to consider
.
Having learnt the hard way (Ford Essex V6) I source hgs from a franchised dealer where possible. That way if there have been changes you are likely to get the latest evolution.
Had occasion to replace the hg due to an oil leak on one of our 306, a 1.6 petrol.
The removed gasket was a composite gasket, much the same as those in your pic.
The replacement on offer from local motor factors was also a composite.
A check with the local Pug dealer's parts dept revealed that the latest genuine parts gasket for that engine was a multi layer steel which suggests to me that Peugeot were aware of issues with the composite ones.
No issues after fitting & FAIK the composite might have done a perfectly fine job but I raise it as something you might want to consider
.
thanks guys, its good to understand these things.
Yes, pretty sure these old Gaskets are both composites.
and I'll not put too much faith in my used & abused 30cm and 60cm rulers.
I was determined to pay more for an MLS Gasket but despite a good bit of time searching online found only composite Gaskets, that was after working out how to tell the difference visually, coz often the listings for HG's didn't state the material used in the manufacture, even in the manufacturers' catalogue in one case.
I'll make a phone call to my local Main Dealer and see if he can offer me an MLS Gasket.
If anyone knows of an MLS, the equivalent composite part no. is 059.341 (Elring)
NB: learning.... 3 days approx it took me to strip my first 'Practice' Cylinder Head, making lots of notes and some tools along the way. 2 hours to strip my second.
Yes, pretty sure these old Gaskets are both composites.
and I'll not put too much faith in my used & abused 30cm and 60cm rulers.
I was determined to pay more for an MLS Gasket but despite a good bit of time searching online found only composite Gaskets, that was after working out how to tell the difference visually, coz often the listings for HG's didn't state the material used in the manufacture, even in the manufacturers' catalogue in one case.
I'll make a phone call to my local Main Dealer and see if he can offer me an MLS Gasket.
If anyone knows of an MLS, the equivalent composite part no. is 059.341 (Elring)
NB: learning.... 3 days approx it took me to strip my first 'Practice' Cylinder Head, making lots of notes and some tools along the way. 2 hours to strip my second.
XUD9A.....Will never forget this number
You've reminded me of the following taken from
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Love the XUD9A
Enjoy
You've reminded me of the following taken from
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Penelope Stopit said:
Having nearly finished a part rebuild of this engine and fitted a new timing belt today, I know that the camshaft and diesel pump turn freely
When I first bought this engine nearly 3 months ago I noticed how it tightened and loosened off when turning it with a socket on a breaker bar and remarked "this engine has good compression"
I haven't removed the cylinderhead
I planned 2 other jobs today to be as sure as possible that all was well with the engine before fitting it, 1 job was to check for flywheel run-out and the other was to remove the heater plugs and turn the engine with a torque wrench to see what effort was needed when there was no compression
Through Google I noticed in a few topics that people quote anything from 20 to 30 NM as being ok, I don't know if these figures are correct
The nightmare begins, I poured oil down the bores through the heater plug holes because the engine did feel tight with the breaker bar without there being compression, the engine felt easier to turn after oiling
Next it was out with the torque wrench and take some readings of how many Newton Meters it took to turn the engine......Shock horror......fortunately my partner paid me a visit to break the good news about the kids in Thailand......this proved to be a great reality check
I couldn't think of an easier way of explaining my findings other than to show the measurements I took by putting them around an image of a circle with degrees already marked on it
Will someone please post their thoughts on the measurements I have taken
0 degrees is the start point from when removing all the timing pins
Will you be changing the water pump, cam belt, tensioner pulleys and cam/crank oils seals while the engines out ?When I first bought this engine nearly 3 months ago I noticed how it tightened and loosened off when turning it with a socket on a breaker bar and remarked "this engine has good compression"
I haven't removed the cylinderhead
I planned 2 other jobs today to be as sure as possible that all was well with the engine before fitting it, 1 job was to check for flywheel run-out and the other was to remove the heater plugs and turn the engine with a torque wrench to see what effort was needed when there was no compression
Through Google I noticed in a few topics that people quote anything from 20 to 30 NM as being ok, I don't know if these figures are correct
The nightmare begins, I poured oil down the bores through the heater plug holes because the engine did feel tight with the breaker bar without there being compression, the engine felt easier to turn after oiling
Next it was out with the torque wrench and take some readings of how many Newton Meters it took to turn the engine......Shock horror......fortunately my partner paid me a visit to break the good news about the kids in Thailand......this proved to be a great reality check
I couldn't think of an easier way of explaining my findings other than to show the measurements I took by putting them around an image of a circle with degrees already marked on it
Will someone please post their thoughts on the measurements I have taken
0 degrees is the start point from when removing all the timing pins
Love the XUD9A
Enjoy
Edited by Penelope Stopit on Monday 6th April 20:29
Interesting link that Penelope, thank you.
Did your story have a happen ending with a sweetly running engine and a vehicle that’s back in use?
I’m glad I’m not the only fan of the non-turbo Diesel.
I didn’t envy your idea of a ‘quick change over’… I thought that’s unlikely to have happened, partic if you’re inexperienced like me… there are always detail reasons why these jobs are not quick
…and the last thing you need when you’re learning as you go is the stress of a deadline.
I’d’ve definitely been concerned about the effort needed to turn yours. When I turn my engines (they all get turned at least quarterly) with all fittings and loosely fitted Heads (Head Bolts and GP's finger tight only), they require pretty much zero effort, nothing like the approx 40Nm you exerted.
I’ve never done a compression test on any of my (three) engines and don’t actually have the kit to do so, partly because, like you, I’ve always been loathe to remove the Injectors for fear of them not seating properly when re-fitted.
However, the one engine from which I have removed the Injectors is the one fitted to the car now. I refitted them with the same copper washers. Three are definitely OK and a fourth I haven’t yet investigated whether a slight weep is from the Injector Seat or the Leak Off; I suspect the latter.
Injector Copper Washers have always been an ‘issue’ for me. I’ve been advised a number of times that they’re available from Main Dealers, but last time I asked, you had to buy a pack of 100 or something silly. I did acquire a set of four, long ago, which I know are ‘not quite’ the right thickness, hence I thought I’ll try refitting the Injectors first with the original Washers, rather than use my precious four new ones potentially ‘needlessly’. In my application, access is pretty easy to them, so it wouldn’t be the end of the world to have to do them later… What body is / was your engine in?
Did you make a plate for the Starter Motor? I’d be glad to see a sketch and/or photo if you did, such a thing would allow me to run a spare engine up to temp. I have successfully started a spare engine ‘out of car’ but coupled to a good Gearbox with no Gearbox oil in it, and without any cooling plumbed, so I didn’t dare run it for long.
I ‘think’ I could put together a complete cooling system for purpose to run an engine up to temp and do a HG Test, but without a bare Bell-Housing or other means to mount a Starter Motor, I’ve not properly investigated whether I have all the necessary Hoses.
All of my engines are high mileage
Original: 275k, 96k of which I’ve put on it, runs sweet and goes remarkably well, but ‘engine note’ seemed to change a few months ago which concerns me…. still sweet, but different. Had recently ingested small quantity of water. Recently removed from car due to HG and other troubles; replaced by ‘Spare 2’
Spare 1: also 275k (strangely enough), only ever ran it for 10mins in a spares car I bought complete, with the most spectacularly brown coolant you ever saw! Nevertheless, sounded sweet but I only drove it 10yards so a bit ‘un-proven’. There’s also a second issue with the Head that I might be soon to get to the bottom of.
Spare 2: dropped it out of a car at a scrappers without attempting to start it in the scrap vehicle. I intended it as a ‘learning tool’ and never intended to ever run it; it was to be my ‘make mistakes on’ engine. However, I changed my mind, ‘test started’ it briefly (above) and its now fitted to my car as a direct replacement for the original; I’d decided I preferred to change the engine, along with other works; than do a Head Gasket job, but it turns out I’m going to be doing both! 199k, runs & drives lovely, including at motorway speeds; but has HG issues, so it’ll be getting the Head from my original Lump.
Mileages are all from Odo’s so could be incorrect, but most likely, are ‘true’.
Water pump: yes. Cam Belt, yes. Tensioner pulleys, No. Cam Oil Seal, yes.
I am aware of XUD9A’s (and at least one TE) that are for sale if you need one, in particular one that I personally dropped out of a scrapper recently. I know the vehicle was driven to the yard and its still with the vehicle; I simply left it on the ground. Lots of evidence that the car had been really well looked after until its demise, including Genuine filters in good condition, but rad had a big hole in it so expect it to have been boiled. Prices are very cheap, but you’ll need to ‘get there in person’, so if that’s not logistically possible, it won’t happen.
If you have any questions of your own about XUD stuff, will be happy to help if I can. Similarly if you want to trust me to buy the engine on your behalf, with your money; I'll do that too, once this Corona-Virus business is over. ...but I can't stump up money of my own
Did your story have a happen ending with a sweetly running engine and a vehicle that’s back in use?
I’m glad I’m not the only fan of the non-turbo Diesel.
I didn’t envy your idea of a ‘quick change over’… I thought that’s unlikely to have happened, partic if you’re inexperienced like me… there are always detail reasons why these jobs are not quick
…and the last thing you need when you’re learning as you go is the stress of a deadline.
I’d’ve definitely been concerned about the effort needed to turn yours. When I turn my engines (they all get turned at least quarterly) with all fittings and loosely fitted Heads (Head Bolts and GP's finger tight only), they require pretty much zero effort, nothing like the approx 40Nm you exerted.
I’ve never done a compression test on any of my (three) engines and don’t actually have the kit to do so, partly because, like you, I’ve always been loathe to remove the Injectors for fear of them not seating properly when re-fitted.
However, the one engine from which I have removed the Injectors is the one fitted to the car now. I refitted them with the same copper washers. Three are definitely OK and a fourth I haven’t yet investigated whether a slight weep is from the Injector Seat or the Leak Off; I suspect the latter.
Injector Copper Washers have always been an ‘issue’ for me. I’ve been advised a number of times that they’re available from Main Dealers, but last time I asked, you had to buy a pack of 100 or something silly. I did acquire a set of four, long ago, which I know are ‘not quite’ the right thickness, hence I thought I’ll try refitting the Injectors first with the original Washers, rather than use my precious four new ones potentially ‘needlessly’. In my application, access is pretty easy to them, so it wouldn’t be the end of the world to have to do them later… What body is / was your engine in?
Did you make a plate for the Starter Motor? I’d be glad to see a sketch and/or photo if you did, such a thing would allow me to run a spare engine up to temp. I have successfully started a spare engine ‘out of car’ but coupled to a good Gearbox with no Gearbox oil in it, and without any cooling plumbed, so I didn’t dare run it for long.
I ‘think’ I could put together a complete cooling system for purpose to run an engine up to temp and do a HG Test, but without a bare Bell-Housing or other means to mount a Starter Motor, I’ve not properly investigated whether I have all the necessary Hoses.
All of my engines are high mileage
Original: 275k, 96k of which I’ve put on it, runs sweet and goes remarkably well, but ‘engine note’ seemed to change a few months ago which concerns me…. still sweet, but different. Had recently ingested small quantity of water. Recently removed from car due to HG and other troubles; replaced by ‘Spare 2’
Spare 1: also 275k (strangely enough), only ever ran it for 10mins in a spares car I bought complete, with the most spectacularly brown coolant you ever saw! Nevertheless, sounded sweet but I only drove it 10yards so a bit ‘un-proven’. There’s also a second issue with the Head that I might be soon to get to the bottom of.
Spare 2: dropped it out of a car at a scrappers without attempting to start it in the scrap vehicle. I intended it as a ‘learning tool’ and never intended to ever run it; it was to be my ‘make mistakes on’ engine. However, I changed my mind, ‘test started’ it briefly (above) and its now fitted to my car as a direct replacement for the original; I’d decided I preferred to change the engine, along with other works; than do a Head Gasket job, but it turns out I’m going to be doing both! 199k, runs & drives lovely, including at motorway speeds; but has HG issues, so it’ll be getting the Head from my original Lump.
Mileages are all from Odo’s so could be incorrect, but most likely, are ‘true’.
Water pump: yes. Cam Belt, yes. Tensioner pulleys, No. Cam Oil Seal, yes.
I am aware of XUD9A’s (and at least one TE) that are for sale if you need one, in particular one that I personally dropped out of a scrapper recently. I know the vehicle was driven to the yard and its still with the vehicle; I simply left it on the ground. Lots of evidence that the car had been really well looked after until its demise, including Genuine filters in good condition, but rad had a big hole in it so expect it to have been boiled. Prices are very cheap, but you’ll need to ‘get there in person’, so if that’s not logistically possible, it won’t happen.
If you have any questions of your own about XUD stuff, will be happy to help if I can. Similarly if you want to trust me to buy the engine on your behalf, with your money; I'll do that too, once this Corona-Virus business is over. ...but I can't stump up money of my own
Heat copper to red hot & allow to cool either in air or by dropping into cold water - the latter is said to get rid of any surface scale.
I used to reload rifle cartridges & annealing by standing them in cold water so just the neck & shoulders got hot worked very well -- once up to temp I just knocked them over to quench.
Heating steel & quenching is another matter.
Can be quenched in oil or water but there's a lot more involved so you might want to have a Google of the advantages/disadvantages of each. Fans of 'Forged in fire' will know what the result should be.
I used this some years ago with the locking ratchet of a Scimitar driver's seat back. Built up the worn away area with weld & recut teeth with a file.
Leaving it to air cool was a mistake as it stayed soft & didn't last long. Redone with an oil quench did the job nicely & it was still fine when I sold the car a couple of years later.
I used to reload rifle cartridges & annealing by standing them in cold water so just the neck & shoulders got hot worked very well -- once up to temp I just knocked them over to quench.
Heating steel & quenching is another matter.
Can be quenched in oil or water but there's a lot more involved so you might want to have a Google of the advantages/disadvantages of each. Fans of 'Forged in fire' will know what the result should be.
I used this some years ago with the locking ratchet of a Scimitar driver's seat back. Built up the worn away area with weld & recut teeth with a file.
Leaving it to air cool was a mistake as it stayed soft & didn't last long. Redone with an oil quench did the job nicely & it was still fine when I sold the car a couple of years later.
paintman said:
Heat copper to red hot & allow to cool either in air or by dropping into cold water - the latter is said to get rid of any surface scale.
I used to reload rifle cartridges & annealing by standing them in cold water so just the neck & shoulders got hot worked very well -- once up to temp I just knocked them over to quench.
Heating steel & quenching is another matter.
Can be quenched in oil or water but there's a lot more involved so you might want to have a Google of the advantages/disadvantages of each. Fans of 'Forged in fire' will know what the result should be.
I used this some years ago with the locking ratchet of a Scimitar driver's seat back. Built up the worn away area with weld & recut teeth with a file.
Leaving it to air cool was a mistake as it stayed soft & didn't last long. Redone with an oil quench did the job nicely & it was still fine when I sold the car a couple of years later.
I used to reload rifle cartridges & annealing by standing them in cold water so just the neck & shoulders got hot worked very well -- once up to temp I just knocked them over to quench.
Heating steel & quenching is another matter.
Can be quenched in oil or water but there's a lot more involved so you might want to have a Google of the advantages/disadvantages of each. Fans of 'Forged in fire' will know what the result should be.
I used this some years ago with the locking ratchet of a Scimitar driver's seat back. Built up the worn away area with weld & recut teeth with a file.
Leaving it to air cool was a mistake as it stayed soft & didn't last long. Redone with an oil quench did the job nicely & it was still fine when I sold the car a couple of years later.
. With steel, you normally want to temper (re-heat it, but to a much lower temperature than for quenching) after quenching, which in layman's terms turns some of the hardness into springiness, depending on how hot you go. They never show this on forged in fire, but I understand they temper them in an oven overnight after the first round.A blacksmith making a punch or similar will typically quench the end, then remove from the oil, and allow the heat from the rest of it flow back into the quenched part in order to temper it. As it does so, you can watch the steel change colour as oxides form on the surface - the colours happen at specific temperatures so you can judge your temper (and hence how hard the item will end up) by the colour.
VanDiesel99 said:
Interesting link that Penelope, thank you.
Did your story have a happen ending with a sweetly running engine and a vehicle that’s back in use?
I’m glad I’m not the only fan of the non-turbo Diesel.
I didn’t envy your idea of a ‘quick change over’… I thought that’s unlikely to have happened, partic if you’re inexperienced like me… there are always detail reasons why these jobs are not quick
…and the last thing you need when you’re learning as you go is the stress of a deadline.
I’d’ve definitely been concerned about the effort needed to turn yours. When I turn my engines (they all get turned at least quarterly) with all fittings and loosely fitted Heads (Head Bolts and GP's finger tight only), they require pretty much zero effort, nothing like the approx 40Nm you exerted.
I’ve never done a compression test on any of my (three) engines and don’t actually have the kit to do so, partly because, like you, I’ve always been loathe to remove the Injectors for fear of them not seating properly when re-fitted.
However, the one engine from which I have removed the Injectors is the one fitted to the car now. I refitted them with the same copper washers. Three are definitely OK and a fourth I haven’t yet investigated whether a slight weep is from the Injector Seat or the Leak Off; I suspect the latter.
Injector Copper Washers have always been an ‘issue’ for me. I’ve been advised a number of times that they’re available from Main Dealers, but last time I asked, you had to buy a pack of 100 or something silly. I did acquire a set of four, long ago, which I know are ‘not quite’ the right thickness, hence I thought I’ll try refitting the Injectors first with the original Washers, rather than use my precious four new ones potentially ‘needlessly’. In my application, access is pretty easy to them, so it wouldn’t be the end of the world to have to do them later… What body is / was your engine in?
Did you make a plate for the Starter Motor? I’d be glad to see a sketch and/or photo if you did, such a thing would allow me to run a spare engine up to temp. I have successfully started a spare engine ‘out of car’ but coupled to a good Gearbox with no Gearbox oil in it, and without any cooling plumbed, so I didn’t dare run it for long.
I ‘think’ I could put together a complete cooling system for purpose to run an engine up to temp and do a HG Test, but without a bare Bell-Housing or other means to mount a Starter Motor, I’ve not properly investigated whether I have all the necessary Hoses.
All of my engines are high mileage
Original: 275k, 96k of which I’ve put on it, runs sweet and goes remarkably well, but ‘engine note’ seemed to change a few months ago which concerns me…. still sweet, but different. Had recently ingested small quantity of water. Recently removed from car due to HG and other troubles; replaced by ‘Spare 2’
Spare 1: also 275k (strangely enough), only ever ran it for 10mins in a spares car I bought complete, with the most spectacularly brown coolant you ever saw! Nevertheless, sounded sweet but I only drove it 10yards so a bit ‘un-proven’. There’s also a second issue with the Head that I might be soon to get to the bottom of.
Spare 2: dropped it out of a car at a scrappers without attempting to start it in the scrap vehicle. I intended it as a ‘learning tool’ and never intended to ever run it; it was to be my ‘make mistakes on’ engine. However, I changed my mind, ‘test started’ it briefly (above) and its now fitted to my car as a direct replacement for the original; I’d decided I preferred to change the engine, along with other works; than do a Head Gasket job, but it turns out I’m going to be doing both! 199k, runs & drives lovely, including at motorway speeds; but has HG issues, so it’ll be getting the Head from my original Lump.
Mileages are all from Odo’s so could be incorrect, but most likely, are ‘true’.
Water pump: yes. Cam Belt, yes. Tensioner pulleys, No. Cam Oil Seal, yes.
I am aware of XUD9A’s (and at least one TE) that are for sale if you need one, in particular one that I personally dropped out of a scrapper recently. I know the vehicle was driven to the yard and its still with the vehicle; I simply left it on the ground. Lots of evidence that the car had been really well looked after until its demise, including Genuine filters in good condition, but rad had a big hole in it so expect it to have been boiled. Prices are very cheap, but you’ll need to ‘get there in person’, so if that’s not logistically possible, it won’t happen.
If you have any questions of your own about XUD stuff, will be happy to help if I can. Similarly if you want to trust me to buy the engine on your behalf, with your money; I'll do that too, once this Corona-Virus business is over. ...but I can't stump up money of my own
That was an interesting readDid your story have a happen ending with a sweetly running engine and a vehicle that’s back in use?
I’m glad I’m not the only fan of the non-turbo Diesel.
I didn’t envy your idea of a ‘quick change over’… I thought that’s unlikely to have happened, partic if you’re inexperienced like me… there are always detail reasons why these jobs are not quick
…and the last thing you need when you’re learning as you go is the stress of a deadline.
I’d’ve definitely been concerned about the effort needed to turn yours. When I turn my engines (they all get turned at least quarterly) with all fittings and loosely fitted Heads (Head Bolts and GP's finger tight only), they require pretty much zero effort, nothing like the approx 40Nm you exerted.
I’ve never done a compression test on any of my (three) engines and don’t actually have the kit to do so, partly because, like you, I’ve always been loathe to remove the Injectors for fear of them not seating properly when re-fitted.
However, the one engine from which I have removed the Injectors is the one fitted to the car now. I refitted them with the same copper washers. Three are definitely OK and a fourth I haven’t yet investigated whether a slight weep is from the Injector Seat or the Leak Off; I suspect the latter.
Injector Copper Washers have always been an ‘issue’ for me. I’ve been advised a number of times that they’re available from Main Dealers, but last time I asked, you had to buy a pack of 100 or something silly. I did acquire a set of four, long ago, which I know are ‘not quite’ the right thickness, hence I thought I’ll try refitting the Injectors first with the original Washers, rather than use my precious four new ones potentially ‘needlessly’. In my application, access is pretty easy to them, so it wouldn’t be the end of the world to have to do them later… What body is / was your engine in?
Did you make a plate for the Starter Motor? I’d be glad to see a sketch and/or photo if you did, such a thing would allow me to run a spare engine up to temp. I have successfully started a spare engine ‘out of car’ but coupled to a good Gearbox with no Gearbox oil in it, and without any cooling plumbed, so I didn’t dare run it for long.
I ‘think’ I could put together a complete cooling system for purpose to run an engine up to temp and do a HG Test, but without a bare Bell-Housing or other means to mount a Starter Motor, I’ve not properly investigated whether I have all the necessary Hoses.
All of my engines are high mileage
Original: 275k, 96k of which I’ve put on it, runs sweet and goes remarkably well, but ‘engine note’ seemed to change a few months ago which concerns me…. still sweet, but different. Had recently ingested small quantity of water. Recently removed from car due to HG and other troubles; replaced by ‘Spare 2’
Spare 1: also 275k (strangely enough), only ever ran it for 10mins in a spares car I bought complete, with the most spectacularly brown coolant you ever saw! Nevertheless, sounded sweet but I only drove it 10yards so a bit ‘un-proven’. There’s also a second issue with the Head that I might be soon to get to the bottom of.
Spare 2: dropped it out of a car at a scrappers without attempting to start it in the scrap vehicle. I intended it as a ‘learning tool’ and never intended to ever run it; it was to be my ‘make mistakes on’ engine. However, I changed my mind, ‘test started’ it briefly (above) and its now fitted to my car as a direct replacement for the original; I’d decided I preferred to change the engine, along with other works; than do a Head Gasket job, but it turns out I’m going to be doing both! 199k, runs & drives lovely, including at motorway speeds; but has HG issues, so it’ll be getting the Head from my original Lump.
Mileages are all from Odo’s so could be incorrect, but most likely, are ‘true’.
Water pump: yes. Cam Belt, yes. Tensioner pulleys, No. Cam Oil Seal, yes.
I am aware of XUD9A’s (and at least one TE) that are for sale if you need one, in particular one that I personally dropped out of a scrapper recently. I know the vehicle was driven to the yard and its still with the vehicle; I simply left it on the ground. Lots of evidence that the car had been really well looked after until its demise, including Genuine filters in good condition, but rad had a big hole in it so expect it to have been boiled. Prices are very cheap, but you’ll need to ‘get there in person’, so if that’s not logistically possible, it won’t happen.
If you have any questions of your own about XUD stuff, will be happy to help if I can. Similarly if you want to trust me to buy the engine on your behalf, with your money; I'll do that too, once this Corona-Virus business is over. ...but I can't stump up money of my own
Thank you very much for such a kind offer, living in Greece has prevented me from taking you up on getting hold of any parts for me
Yes ,did get there in the end with my engine job
Have rebuilt a couple of petrol engines in the past but never a diesel until my XUD9A (love those letters)
Managed to buy another engine from Germany and stripped it down as much as possible without removing the head, in looking closely at the engine I realised it needed a new camshaft due to it being badly marked by whoever had worked on it in the past and there was also a groove where it contacted the front oil seal
The good part about the engine was that in looking even closer at it I noticed the core plugs were as new and the blocks black paint the same, came to the conclusion that it was a recent new block and pistons (or recon)
Anyway, decided to fit new camshaft and oil seal, new belt, tensioner pulley, water pump and crankshaft front/rear seals
Ended up stuck for shims when setting the valve clearances, a poster here at PH named sardonicus sent me 3 shims
Once the job was completed, didnt have a clue what/if something was wrong as the engine seemed tight
You'll have noticed that those in the know (topic linked to) soon put me right and advised to get it in
Think it was tight because they are tight when good and this baby was hardly run in
Car's a 1997 Peugeot 306 from the UK, had only done 179000 miles but neglected due to me rarely opening the bonnet, (too busy in same day UK), lack of antifreeze caused many problems, head may have warped when it dropped its water due to a corroded water jacket that the oil filter fits to or the head gasket could have corroded, saw where it was leaking from the head after getting engine out of the car (rear right hand side)
Before even thinking about throwing money at an old car, got looking for a decent newer car at the right price only to find that they're all far too expensive in Greece for what they are
Approximately 4000 euros later, now have a near fully rebuilt car, replaced/repaired all the front brakes and suspension when the engine was out and fitted new boots to driveshafts and steering rack, had already pulled the dash out and fitted a new heater matrix as thought that was causing the loss of water (inside of car did smell of antifreeze and the matrix was leaking)
Fitted new clutch
New tyres
Managed to buy and recondition a complete rear beam, that was fun, bearings, seals, brakes and drums
Got rid of the front window winders and fitted new motor driven regulators
Sat on the floor close to me are new bottom radiator hose, handbrake cables, fan belt, fan belt tensioner and 2 front anti roll bar bushes
Once the above are fitted the jobs finished
Oh needs an electric tailgate release fitting and wiring as the locks broken
Oh almost forgot, front door seals could be better
Only short of a new bodyshell
Ask me was it worth it............too right it was
Thank you once again for your very kind offer
Enjoy your cylinder head work, have an LDV PDF file for an XUD9A on a hard drive somewhere
Keep well
Edited by Penelope Stopit on Tuesday 7th April 21:00
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