Filings in engine oil

[Crumpet]

Background: 2019 Disco 5 with a 300bhp 2.0 petrol engine. 14000 miles and due its first service at two years old in September.

To what extent are metal filings likely in two year old engine oil? There are iron filings on the dipstick and quite a lot of ‘crud’.

I’ll be honest, I’ve never bothered checking it because it’s a modern car and they don’t really expect you to do so. On my older cars I’ve always checked the oil regularly and replaced it more often than required so I’ve never seen oil in this state before.

It’s all in warranty and, as I say, the first service isn’t due until next month but is this normal? The car is a Friday afternoon job - typical LR - so this is just one of many faults. It’s losing coolant as well, which I’m sure they’ll just fob me off with it being normal.

Hopefully you can see them in this pic….

[Tony1963]

If this is the original oil, I don’t think I’d worry. Is there any blue smoke from the exhaust?

[Crumpet]

Tony1963 said:

If this is the original oil, I don’t think I’d worry. Is there any blue smoke from the exhaust?

No, all seems to be running smoothly and normally and only noticed it because I was under the bonnet sorting out the low coolant. And yes it’s the original oil.

These extended service intervals can’t be good for an engine, but I guess they’ve tested them. It’s under warranty so it’s not really my problem, I hope! Just checked the bottle of spare oil that came from LR when I bought it and they’ve given me the wrong grade and wrong fuel type! Fortunately I haven’t put any in.

[sunbeam alpine]

I posted in another thread a couple of weeks back that my local LR dealer had 5 Disco 5's in with broken 2 litre engines. I had it from the service manager - he's a member of our classic car club.

I was considering one as the 2 litre engine has a lot of tax advantages here in Belgium, but now I'm veering toward a 2nd Landcruiser, despite the new model looking like a carnival version of Dame Edna Everage's head...

[ChocolateFrog]

Crumpet said:

Tony1963 said:

If this is the original oil, I don’t think I’d worry. Is there any blue smoke from the exhaust?

No, all seems to be running smoothly and normally and only noticed it because I was under the bonnet sorting out the low coolant. And yes it’s the original oil.

These extended service intervals can’t be good for an engine, but I guess they’ve tested them. It’s under warranty so it’s not really my problem, I hope! Just checked the bottle of spare oil that came from LR when I bought it and they’ve given me the wrong grade and wrong fuel type! Fortunately I haven’t put any in.

They're not good for the engine but it'll likely see out the warranty period even if you didn't change it at all.

Once round the world on 5 or 6 litres of oil is impressive but also a bit mad if you have mechanical sympathy.

[Crumpet]

sunbeam alpine said:

I posted in another thread a couple of weeks back that my local LR dealer had 5 Disco 5's in with broken 2 litre engines. I had it from the service manager - he's a member of our classic car club.

I was considering one as the 2 litre engine has a lot of tax advantages here in Belgium, but now I'm veering toward a 2nd Landcruiser, despite the new model looking like a carnival version of Dame Edna Everage's head...

Is that 2.0 Diesel engine, though? As I understood it the petrol 2.0 was actually very good with very few issues! The 2.0 diesel is awful anyway, so beat avoided!

[sunbeam alpine]

Crumpet said:

sunbeam alpine said:

I posted in another thread a couple of weeks back that my local LR dealer had 5 Disco 5's in with broken 2 litre engines. I had it from the service manager - he's a member of our classic car club.

I was considering one as the 2 litre engine has a lot of tax advantages here in Belgium, but now I'm veering toward a 2nd Landcruiser, despite the new model looking like a carnival version of Dame Edna Everage's head...

Is that 2.0 Diesel engine, though? As I understood it the petrol 2.0 was actually very good with very few issues! The 2.0 diesel is awful anyway, so beat avoided!

Apologies! It is the diesel engine. I should have read your first post more carefully.

[Maxdecel]

Crumpet said:

Background: 2019 Disco 5 with a 300bhp 2.0 petrol engine. 14000 miles and due its first service at two years old in September. To what extent are metal filings likely in two year old engine oil? There are iron filings on the dipstick and quite a lot of ‘crud’.

iron filings on the dipstick That would be a concern to me no matter the mileage also crud could possibly be "black death".
Is any of the crud visible looking inside the oil filler or the inside of the cap ? Assuming you can see inside the engine.
Are there any noises you've not noticed before?

[GreenV8S]

At that age it's barely run in. You'd expect metal to have been generated during the running-in process but that should be microscopic. If you see any chunks of metal, that's something to be concerned about.

[RobXjcoupe]

Brand new engines always benefit 2 quick oil changes before the miles rack up. When the blocks are machined although given a thorough clean, swarf can be missed. So is the swarf aluminium or ferrous?

[Crumpet]

Maxdecel said:

iron filings on the dipstick That would be a concern to me no matter the mileage also crud could possibly be "black death".
Is any of the crud visible looking inside the oil filler or the inside of the cap ? Assuming you can see inside the engine.
Are there any noises you've not noticed before?

The filler cap isn’t really on top of the rocker covers (or whatever they’re called on modern engines) like with most cars. There’s a short run of smooth, plastic internal pipework from the cap but there’s no gunk or muck on it. I reached in as far as I could and the oil I got from the top of the engine also has filings in - just the same as from the dipstick into the sump.

It’s not making any funny noises and nothing else concerns me. If you hold the tissue up to the light the few millilitres of oil holds dozens of particles you can see - the biggest won’t even be the size of a grain of sand. We’re talking caster sugar kind of size.

Honestly, what is it with Land Rovers! Just off the top of my head it’s had the following faults in the first two years of it’s life:

Electric tailgate failed x2
Cooling fans stuck on at all times
Remote locking receiver failed
Steering wheel controls failed
Brakes juddering (warped discs)
Remote climate failed
CarPlay constantly disconnecting
USB ports failed
Coolant level dropping
Metal filings in the engine oil

If they spent a few more pence on electrical components they wouldn’t have all this nonsense. Anyway, my eight year run with Land Rovers is done because of this. I’ve ordered something else!

[Crumpet]

RobXjcoupe said:

Brand new engines always benefit 2 quick oil changes before the miles rack up. When the blocks are machined although given a thorough clean, swarf can be missed. So is the swarf aluminium or ferrous?

Sticks to a magnet, so ferrous. Although I thought the Ingenium was an aluminium block?

[Crumpet]

GreenV8S said:

At that age it's barely run in. You'd expect metal to have been generated during the running-in process but that should be microscopic. If you see any chunks of metal, that's something to be concerned about.

They’re certainly not chunks, I don’t think you’d feel it if they got stuck in your skin, unlike bigger filings.

[brman]

What would concern me is why those particles are still floating round in the oil? If it was just dodgy cleaning after machining, or even some wear due to run in, why are they not stuck in the oil filter? Surely the oil accessibly from the dip stick/filler has been round the engine multiple times by now?

[Crumpet]

brman said:

What would concern me is why those particles are still floating round in the oil? If it was just dodgy cleaning after machining, or even some wear due to run in, why are they not stuck in the oil filter? Surely the oil accessibly from the dip stick/filler has been round the engine multiple times by now?

Er, that’s a very good point! Why isn’t the filter filtering! I’d completely forgotten about that.

[Crumpet]

Sorry, I really shouldn’t have used toilet paper! It looks….er….well….

But the particles definitely glisten and definitely stick to a magnet.

[Defcon5]

Those are the particles light enough to be held in suspension in the oil - what’s sat in the bottom of the pan?

On a JLR note, my dad had a 2.0 petrol XE (2.5t spec, not sure what that referred to though). Spent an awful lot of time at the dealers, used to drain its battery for fun

[Maxdecel]

Crumpet said:

brman said:

What would concern me is why those particles are still floating round in the oil? If it was just dodgy cleaning after machining, or even some wear due to run in, why are they not stuck in the oil filter? Surely the oil accessibly from the dip stick/filler has been round the engine multiple times by now?

Er, that’s a very good point! Why isn’t the filter filtering! I’d completely forgotten about that.

Totally agree ! Hard to imagine with SO much debris in the system (possibly the filter is saturated) that some tell tale noises from under the bonnet haven't occurred ?

[brman]

yes, I have to say my bet would be that something in the engine is wearing rapidly. And maybe event the filter is clogged and the bypass valve has opened.....

Of course I am always a glass half empty kind of guy

[Maxdecel]

Crumpet said:

Sticks to a magnet, so ferrous. Although I thought the Ingenium was an aluminium block?

All the rotating bits and bores will be cast iron / or some ferrous metal.
The diesel version seems to have a reputation but not the petrol ? .....that I found anyway. There are some suggestions they share many parts, timing chains appear to be common which might fit with the symptoms you have discovered, however with your description I would've expected failure or a no go situation not to mention noise