Driving Licence confusion.

[iguana]

R0G said:

I am assuming the 7.5 is the open flatbed type which means it probably weighs about 4.0 tonnes empty
With one vehicle on it weighing about 2 tonnes then that is a total of 6.0 tonnes

A one vehicle trailer probably weighs about 0.4 tonnes empty so with a 1.75 tonne vehicle on it will be just under 2.25 tonnes

its easy to downplate the lorry to 6.0 and the trailer to 2.25 so that will conform to the pre 1997 C1+E 107 licence category

Depends on truck & trailer, some 7.5t car transporters are 5t+ & some nearer 6t unladen, depends on the truck & the bed construction, no commercial car transport trailers run at 400kg, min 600kg, my lightest 3.5t gw trailer is 800kg.

[impracer]

Hi I have just picked up this thread after looking for info on what I can tow with my 7.5 ton recovery truck used for social & domestic use taking race car to meetings, I only recently bought the truck with the thoughts that the licence would allow me to tow my caravan behind it as the truck is plated at 7.5T the caravan has a plate says max 1700kg, I thought, ( but "ROG" has said not) that if the tow vehicle plus the caravan was under 8250 ( as i have 107 restriction) it would be OK
someone else has the same opinion as ROG so went to the weigh bridge with thoughts of dropping the truck to gross 6 ton then caravan makes it fine, except the truck came in at 5720 so scuppered that plan.
Question for ROG is the caravan different to a trailer with a carrying capacity whereas a caravan has a tare weight similar to motorhomes, is there an excemption? clutching at straws here !!!

[powerstroke]

impracer said:

Hi I have just picked up this thread after looking for info on what I can tow with my 7.5 ton recovery truck used for social & domestic use taking race car to meetings, I only recently bought the truck with the thoughts that the licence would allow me to tow my caravan behind it as the truck is plated at 7.5T the caravan has a plate says max 1700kg, I thought, ( but "ROG" has said not) that if the tow vehicle plus the caravan was under 8250 ( as i have 107 restriction) it would be OK
someone else has the same opinion as ROG so went to the weigh bridge with thoughts of dropping the truck to gross 6 ton then caravan makes it fine, except the truck came in at 5720 so scuppered that plan.
Question for ROG is the caravan different to a trailer with a carrying capacity whereas a caravan has a tare weight similar to motorhomes, is there an excemption? clutching at straws here !!!

I think there is a test for towing with over 3.5 ton trucks that will then allow you to drive a combination up to 12000kgs plated weight!! say a 7.5 towing a 3.5 gross trailer or big caravan..

[R0G]

The caravan has a MAM weight called MPTLM which means it is the same as another type of trailer

[mph1977]

powerstroke said:

impracer said:

Hi I have just picked up this thread after looking for info on what I can tow with my 7.5 ton recovery truck used for social & domestic use taking race car to meetings, I only recently bought the truck with the thoughts that the licence would allow me to tow my caravan behind it as the truck is plated at 7.5T the caravan has a plate says max 1700kg, I thought, ( but "ROG" has said not) that if the tow vehicle plus the caravan was under 8250 ( as i have 107 restriction) it would be OK
someone else has the same opinion as ROG so went to the weigh bridge with thoughts of dropping the truck to gross 6 ton then caravan makes it fine, except the truck came in at 5720 so scuppered that plan.
Question for ROG is the caravan different to a trailer with a carrying capacity whereas a caravan has a tare weight similar to motorhomes, is there an excemption? clutching at straws here !!!

I think there is a test for towing with over 3.5 ton trucks that will then allow you to drive a combination up to 12000kgs plated weight!! say a 7.5 towing a 3.5 gross trailer or big caravan..

C1E by test gives MTM of 12000 kg vs 8250kg for grandfathered C1E

[R0G]

powerstroke said:

I think there is a test for towing with over 3.5 ton trucks that will then allow you to drive a combination up to 12000kgs plated weight!! say a 7.5 towing a 3.5 gross trailer or big caravan..

It gives 12 tonnes GTW say a 7.5 tonner towing a something with 8 tonnes plated MAM

GTW = actual weight not total of plated weights

The pre 97 C1+E is different as it gives a max plated MAM of 8250 kgs

[grumpy52]

I've heard recently that all 7.5ton licences will, from april, give entitlement to 12 ton train weight ,thats 7.5 plus trailer,if so this should clear any confusion as to who what where and when tested will end.
I may be wrong as this has not been seen on any gov web sites yet .

[R0G]

grumpy52 said:

I've heard recently that all 7.5ton licences will, from april, give entitlement to 12 ton train weight ,thats 7.5 plus trailer,if so this should clear any confusion as to who what where and when tested will end.
I may be wrong as this has not been seen on any gov web sites yet .

That is not going to happen with C1s but will still happen will C1+Es

To change anything like this would require the EU parliament to do it

[mph1977]

R0G said:

grumpy52 said:

I've heard recently that all 7.5ton licences will, from april, give entitlement to 12 ton train weight ,thats 7.5 plus trailer,if so this should clear any confusion as to who what where and when tested will end.
I may be wrong as this has not been seen on any gov web sites yet .

That is not going to happen with C1s but will still happen will C1+Es

To change anything like this would require the EU parliament to do it

any evidence for this assertion and will grandfathered C1Es get this automatically or have to submit a Application and D4 medical to upgrade ?

[R0G]

mph1977 said:

any evidence for this assertion and will grandfathered C1Es get this automatically or have to submit a Application and D4 medical to upgrade ?

pre 97s could possibly change as that is under UK law but its doubtful

[mph1977]

R0G said:

mph1977 said:

any evidence for this assertion and will grandfathered C1Es get this automatically or have to submit a Application and D4 medical to upgrade ?

pre 97s could possibly change as that is under UK law but its doubtful

AFAIK it's only pre 97 grandfather rights that are limited to 8250

[R0G]

mph1977 said:

AFAIK it's only pre 97 grandfather rights that are limited to 8250

Correct

[GC8]

R0G said:

NOTE:- a driver who has a pre 1997 C1 and also passes C will have another hidden C1 as C1 is a subcategory of C - this is also the case for those passing CE who have a pre 1997 C1E but the two C1Es in this case will be different .... see below

C1E = any rigid vehicle not more than 7500 GVW with not more than a total of 9 seats but can tow a trailer of any MAM but restricted to 12000 GTW (actual total weight for both when weighed together)

C1E with 107 restriction code (free for pre 1997 car licence holders) = any rigid vehicle not more than 7500 GVW with not more than a total of 9 seats towing a trailer where the total of the vehicle GVW added to the trailer MAM is not more than 8250 kgs - the higher the trailer MAM then the lower the vehicle GVW must be or vice-versa which allows the 8250 to be flexible

R0G, I have a grandfathered C1 & C1E entitlement and I also have a post '97 C entitlement.

My licence lists C, C1 & C1E (107) meaning that Im limited to 8,250kgs with no obvious 12 tonne entitlment on the C1E (which Ive always wondered about).

Your post has reminded me of this - have I understood it correctly, or should I be limited to 8.25 tonnes?

[R0G]

GC8 said:

R0G, I have a grandfathered C1 & C1E entitlement and I also have a post '97 C entitlement.

My licence lists C, C1 & C1E (107) meaning that Im limited to 8,250kgs with no obvious 12 tonne entitlment on the C1E (which Ive always wondered about).

Your post has reminded me of this - have I understood it correctly, or should I be limited to 8.25 tonnes?

You C1+E is still restricted to 8250 total MAM weight which is vehicle GVW added to plated trailer MAM

To increase that you need to pass a DSA LGV C1+E or C+E test

[mph1977]

R0G said:

GC8 said:

R0G, I have a grandfathered C1 & C1E entitlement and I also have a post '97 C entitlement.

My licence lists C, C1 & C1E (107) meaning that Im limited to 8,250kgs with no obvious 12 tonne entitlment on the C1E (which Ive always wondered about).

Your post has reminded me of this - have I understood it correctly, or should I be limited to 8.25 tonnes?

You C1+E is still restricted to 8250 total MAM weight which is vehicle GVW added to plated trailer MAM

To increase that you need to pass a DSA LGV C1+E or C+E test

as R0G says above your c1+e is based on pre 97 car test pass grandfather rights - restricting you to 8250 MTM, so you need to do either C1+E or C+E test to drive a C1E up to 12000kg MTM ...

[R0G]

mph1977 said:

as R0G says above your c1+e is based on pre 97 car test pass grandfather rights - restricting you to 8250 MTM, so you need to do either C1+E or C+E test to drive a C1E up to 12000kg MTM ...

12000 GTW not 12000 total MAM

[mph1977]

R0G said:

mph1977 said:

as R0G says above your c1+e is based on pre 97 car test pass grandfather rights - restricting you to 8250 MTM, so you need to do either C1+E or C+E test to drive a C1E up to 12000kg MTM ...

12000 GTW not 12000 total MAM

M T M rog as i stated

[R0G]

mph1977 said:

M T M rog as i stated

Max Total MASS
or
Max Total MAM

See how confusing it is when not sticking to the same terminology !!

That is why I always use GVW GTW & MAM

[mph1977]

R0G said:

mph1977 said:

M T M rog as i stated

Max Total MASS
or
Max Total MAM

See how confusing it is when not sticking to the same terminology !!

That is why I always use GVW GTW & MAM

the scientist in me objects to weight and mass being used interchangably ...

[R0G]

mph1977 said:

the scientist in me objects to weight and mass being used interchangably ...

Max Total Mass ... if that refers to actual weight then its GTW
If it refers to max possible weight then its MAM/GVW

What do you mean by MTM ?