its all my fault

[chilistrucker]

Crossflow Kid said:

chilistrucker said:

thats what most forget, how it gets to and from the train
like you say, the same with air and seafreight, its going to likely end up on a truck still at each end.

Yes, but using rail, air or sea for strategic resupply means only local low volume distribution would be done by road....in smaller vehicles.....on shorter runs.
The Argos scenario isn't communism, it's simply the views of someone who knows they won't die if there aren't croissants in the Co-op before 8am on Sundays. Consumerism has fed the logistics industry with a bottomless pit in to which next month's landfill is constantly poured, and the industry responds by feeding consumers with a never ending non-stop supply chain. The side effect is a motorway network reduced to one usable lane through elephant racing (but that's ok apparently).
As someone who can walk and chew gum at the same time, I recognise that I don't actually "need" a 24hr service in many aspects of my life and have lived in socieites where it doesn't happen to a greater or lesser extent and bugger me, I'm still here. Germany, for example, seems to be doing very well indeed despite having a blanket ban on HGVs over weekends.
So please don't expect a great deal more sympathy over any other road users.
Our roads are st. Deal with it. Everyone else has to, yet the haulage industry seems to project the idea that because it's "work", it's voice is louder and point of view more relevant. For the record, I have to endure ste roads before I even start work.
I do like the "Keep on truckin' brother. Only we know the score" comment though. D'you like Country and Western?

Edited by Crossflow Kid on Sunday 30th December 19:46

i like you CK, because often you come across, as being clueless, and full of st all at once.

so how do you see these shorter journeys, on smaller vehicles happening, in your ideal world?

if a large container ship comes into 1 of our bigger ports, the easiest, cheapest way for the goods to get to said warehouse, rdc, etc, is on the back of said big dirty lorry that is purpose built to carry said shipping container.
when i last looked, it took about 10-12 transit type vans to do the job of 1 artic.
it all boils down to cost, cheap gear made in china, cheapest way to ship it, is on a huge container ship, carrying 15000 containers at a time, and when it reaches its destination, the cheapest and easiest way to move it overland is on a wagon.
granted, a fair few of these containers, do get moved from ports, to inland depots by rail, but for now the majority is still done by truck.

sadly this idea you have of smaller vehicles and shorter journeys is not going to happen.
we don't have the rail network to deal with it, and these large ships are not likely to make it up the manchester ship canal anytime soon. we just don't have the waterways, or rail network to cope.

as for your favored elephant racing mention. sadly yes it happens, i don't like it, i don't agree with it, and i don't do it, those that do are fking stupid, but hey ho, thats life.
i don't like fog light wkers, mlm, people who use their mobile devices, etc, but its a crap world, and i have to put up with the idiots that do it. you know you exagerate the elephant racing. for all the idiot elephant racers that we sadly do have, and some of the poor driving i have seen by wagon drivers, for all accidents that involved lorries last year, 20% were the fault of the lorry driver.
elephant racing is a problem on 2 lane roads, but on a 3 or 4 lane motorway it shouldn't be an issue, as cars have 1 or 2 more extra lanes to overtake on.

i do agree with you on the 24 hour society point. i don't need it either, managed for years without it, i was never bothered when the pub shut on a sunday afternoon, and it didn't matter when toscos, marrisons and co never even opened on a sunday. but things have moved on, society has changed, and the majority seem to want it, and big business is never gonna look a gift horse in the mouth if it can turn a profit and keep the "shareholders" happy, then you know it will.

germany doesn't have a blanket ban all weekend. its a 24 hour ban, that runs from late saturday, to late sunday night, for trucks over 7 and a half tonnes. then considering that truck drivers can't do more than 6 consecutive shifts before having to have a 24 hour break, and that most truck drivers start on a monday, guess when they'd be off the road anyway
i like the german and french bans though, good idea.
doesn't matter to me though, as when in these countries if we need to run during the 24 hour ban we can do it on permits, that can be bought from the authorities for a small charge

if your a lorry hater thats fine, and i certainly don't want your sympathy. i've met plenty of miseducated lorry haters in my time.
but deep down, you know that the simple fact is, until several years down the line, when everything is automated, and you no longer need lorry drivers, and you no longer need cars for that matter as everything will be fully automated, for now the lorries are here to stay. you know full well if you took them all, and i mean "ALL" off the road, the country would collapse, that is just a simple fact, like it or not. it would probably only take a week before everything started to grind to a halt, and mass hysteria set in.

anyways, gotta shoot, just off to polish my cowboy boots, stick my check shirt on, jump in the transam and fk off down the line dancing club
yee, and indeed, haw!!!
10/4 good buddy

[anonymous-user]

So you're saying because China wants to fill our shelves with cheap st sent in shipping containers, we HAVE to have it?
That's my whole point. We've got so far up the proverbial creek we appear to have lost sight of the need to even stop to think and relentlessly tell ourselves that loads of HGVs is somehow essential/vital/critical, and that there is absolutely no way to remove even 10% of them. And I'm afraid I just don't buy in to that. I never suggested all HGVs need taking off the road, I suggested a very long hard look is needed at what's being mov around by road and how much of it is genuinely critical.
If people weren't provided with ten varieties of apples in supermarkets, Olly Murs CDs in petrol stations and sofas delivered in under 24 hours they'd soon get used to it and realise the world hasn't ended.
How is that clueless and/or full of st?

And the elephant racing......the latest treat down in Hampshire was a seven player contest (all Brit registered) tussling along from J7 where I joined, and they were still at it, four in lane 1, three in lane 2, all the way to J3 where 1st and 2nd place were finally decided.. Only 24ish miles, but it doesn't matter, all the car drivers (out for nothing more than a jolly obviously) can use lane 3 right, along with all the light vans, coaches, bikes and anything else that isn't hauling st from China so doesn't deserve to be on a motorway in the first place.
But since I didn't have any custard on me I'm afraid I thought it a little pointless taking photos. So I guess it never happened eh?

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 30th December 22:44

[4key]

Sorry but this is a consumer country, this is no longer the '70s and few people grow or make stuff here anymore. Go blame Thatcher or something and move to Kazakhstan, as I dont want to live in the bland past.

It's progress

[chilistrucker]

Crossflow Kid said:

So you're saying because China wants to fill our shelves with cheap st sent in shipping containers, we HAVE to have it?
That's my whole point. We've got so far up the proverbial creek we appear to have lost sight of the need to even stop to think and relentlessly tell ourselves that loads of HGVs is somehow essential/vital/critical, and that there is absolutely no way to remove even 10% of them. And I'm afraid I just don't buy in to that. I never suggested all HGVs need taking off the road, I suggested a very long hard look is needed at what's being mov around by road and how much of it is genuinely critical.
If people weren't provided with ten varieties of apples in supermarkets, Olly Murs CDs in petrol stations and sofas delivered in under 24 hours they'd soon get used to it and realise the world hasn't ended.
How is that clueless and/or full of st?

And the elephant racing......the latest treat down in Hampshire was a seven player contest (all Brit registered) tussling along from J7 where I joined, and they were still at it, four in lane 1, three in lane 2, all the way to J3 where 1st and 2nd place were finally decided.. Only 24ish miles, but it doesn't matter, all the car drivers (out for nothing more than a jolly obviously) can use lane 3 right, along with all the light vans, coaches, bikes and anything else that isn't hauling st from China so doesn't deserve to be on a motorway in the first place.
But since I didn't have any custard on me I'm afraid I thought it a little pointless taking photos. So I guess it never happened eh?

Edited by Crossflow Kid on Sunday 30th December 22:44

so are you saying you'd like to control what the consumer has a right to buy? is that it?
am i right in saying, that anything non essential, in your eyes, need not be out there for the public to buy, or have the choice to buy? if it is then thats your ideal world, but its never going to happen.
if it is, then you would certainly take a huge ammount of lorries off the road. well done you.



no, that is not what i'm saying, that we have to have it.
i'd much prefer if all the stuff was produced right here in the uk, rather than in china.
but regardless of where its made, the stuff is still going to be distributed, and we are not just talking retail. and as of yet, as there is still know realworld viable alternative, much to your disapointment,its still going to travel on the back of a lorry.
the whole smaller van, shorter journeys, things is just not going to happen.
steps have been made by alot of the big players to cut lorry journeys, thats why you see double deck trailers. also, there is an ongoing trial at the mo, trialing longer trailers to see if they would be a viable option? i'm not so sure, would maybe work on trunking routes, but too big for urban work.

hmmm, 7 lorries, in lane 1 and 2, for 24 miles you say.
well, i wasn't there, so i'll take your word for it.
as i've clearly stated time and time again, i think elephant racing is a disgrace.
i've never said a lorry has any more right to be on the road, than any car, van, bike or coach. what i have said, and you know i'm right, is that without lorries, the country is screwed, its just a pure and simple fact.

out of interest, this j7-j3 scenario on the m3, what time of day?
also, what were you in, a car? and if lane 3 was running, all be it congested, due to the elephant racers, what sort of speed was lane 3 running at.
i'm just puzzled, that even if it were really busy, did it really take you 24 miles to get past the idiots in lane 1 and 2?

[anonymous-user]

Look, it's not about controlling what people buy, it's about getting them to control it themselves, bit like recycling, greener energy and all the other revolutions that have taken place in the last twenty years.
Repeatedly saying "it'll never happen" and "you know I'm right" in response to the idea of using smaller scaler distribution isn't a valid argument is it? Or are you applying the trucker's maxim of Might is Right?
What you really mean is much of the haulage industry don't want it to happen. As you say, steps would be needed by big players.

And the elephant racing world championships relied on the "everyone else can use lane 3" principle, completely failing to take in to account the old biddy in her Micra who moved in to Lane 3 and then wandered around between 50 and 60mph.
But not to worry. M&S got their cream cakes on time and that's what matters.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 31st December 00:26

[anonymous-user]

4key said:

Sorry but this is a consumer country, this is no longer the '70s and few people grow or make stuff here anymore. Go blame Thatcher or something and move to Kazakhstan, as I dont want to live in the bland past.

It's progress

Yeah, that's right. Because a strong economy is based on selling insurance and mobile phones.

Anyway, keep on truckin', I'm back off in to the proper forums.

[chilistrucker]

Crossflow Kid said:

Look, it's not about controlling what people buy, it's about getting them to control it themselves, bit like recycling, greener energy and all the other revolutions that have taken place in the last twenty years.
Repeatedly saying "it'll never happen" and "you know I'm right" in response to the idea of using smaller scaler distribution isn't a valid argument is it? Or are you applying the trucker's maxim of Might is Right?
What you really mean is much of the haulage industry don't want it to happen. As you say, steps would be needed by big players.

And the elephant racing world championships relied on the "everyone else can use lane 3" principle, completely failing to take in to account the old biddy in her Micra who moved in to Lane 3 and then wandered around between 50 and 60mph.
But not to worry. M&S got their cream cakes on time and that's what matters.

Edited by Crossflow Kid on Monday 31st December 00:26

but in this country, in todays modern world, people do want the choice. you can't control people into what they can and can't have, regardless of whether they need it.
doesn't help that we live on a fairly small island, with a fairly large population.
its why i prefer the euro work, on the whole easier to get around.

i'm afraid that yes it is a valid arguement. whether you like it or not, currently all these freight journeys are being made, and mainly by the bigger end of the scale, comercial vehicles.
if you showed me, a genuine, viable alternative to moving lots of freight, then i might agree with you, but as of yet, there is nothing out there as i pointed out earlier. rail and waterways are not an alternative, if they were, trust me, you'd see alot more stobart trains, and even maybe stobart canal barges, but as it stands right now, there just isn't an alternative.
if you want something thats going to give you the most versatility, of moving goods around, in the most cost effective manor, then its still trucks that are your best option.
you havn't got to like it, its just how it is right now.

the big players, do like to be seen, "to do their bit" but again its all down too cost.
think of the money they save, for every double deck trailer they put on uk roads.


well, nothing i can do about some old granny in a micra, and a couple of lorry drivers, who were ignorant to the rest of the world. she did well then the old girl, managing 24 miles in the outside lane.

i would assume, that most of the vehicles that were trying to use lane 3, were the more essential journeys that needed to be made
you see where i'm going don't you.....

if you want to get rid of non essential lorry journeys, well you know
blimey, at this rate, the roads are going to be desserted, we'll just be left with old grannies in micras, and the odd english registered, elephant raced lorry, piloted by someone whos name ends in "ski" who got there licence somewhere in the european union, for the price of a packet of fags.

[Chrisgr31]

The reality as we all know is that the country is too small, too densely populated with not enough roads and railways.

If car drivers stopped making non-essential journeys, so kids walked to school, commuters walked to the station, workers used public transport to get to work, and those travelling for work used public transport many car journeys would no longer be required. There is also I believe evidence that this is happening to an extent, or rather it appears that less car journeys are being made, but that's because fuel is now so expensive people are not driving. These days when travelling for work I tend to take the train where it is practical, rather than drive, its often not quicker due to the need to travel though London and therefore use the tube to connect between trains, but its more comfortable, less stressful, more environmentally friendly, safer, often cheaper, and I can work on the train (or could if they could sort out a decent mobile signal).

At the same time if consumers stopped over-buying food and perishable goods, and indeed if food manufacturers out realistic sell by and eat by dates on goods there would be less requirement for lorry journeys delivering these products to warehouses, then onward journeys to the stores, car journeys to the home, and then a dustcart journey to landfill.

There is a general perception that goods should travel by rail, however there is very limited capacity on the rail network. The Government of course are proposing to build High Speed 2, which would significantly increase capacity, however strangely loads of complaints. What are the chances that many of those complaining also complain about trucks on the roads? Ignoring for the moment the fact goods have to come off the rail network at some point.

Reality is that the genie is not going back in the bottle but we can all do our bit to help, so car drivers is every journey essential, can you walk, cycle, use public transport? Truck drivers are doing a job, moving goods that car drivers want. If car drivers changed their habits (and after all truck drivers are also car drivers) then there would be less need for the trucks.

[pthelazyjourno]

Chrisgr31 said:

These days when travelling for work I tend to take the train where it is practical, rather than drive, its often not quicker due to the need to travel though London and therefore use the tube to connect between trains, but its more comfortable, less stressful, more environmentally friendly, safer, often cheaper, and I can work on the train (or could if they could sort out a decent mobile signal).

Lucky you - it costs me £30-£40 to get to London and back in petrol, it's over £100 for a peak-time train ticket. Often no seats, so nowhere to work, standing for 55 minutes, surrounded by people who get increasingly stressed out when there aren't any seats.

I'd rather drive every time, it's a no brainer. If I could get somebody to travel with at the same time it would be a fraction of the price, even including parking.

Usually end up traveling in by train at 11am ish if I have to work on the way in, which is around £40, but is a faff considering time to get to station, train journey, time to get to tube, time to get to office.

Thankfully I can work from home.

[powerstroke]

Crossflow Kid said:

Look, it's not about controlling what people buy, it's about getting them to control it themselves, bit like recycling, greener energy and all the other revolutions that have taken place in the last twenty years.
Repeatedly saying "it'll never happen" and "you know I'm right" in response to the idea of using smaller scaler distribution isn't a valid argument is it? Or are you applying the trucker's maxim of Might is Right?
What you really mean is much of the haulage industry don't want it to happen. As you say, steps would be needed by big players.

And the elephant racing world championships relied on the "everyone else can use lane 3" principle, completely failing to take in to account the old biddy in her Micra who moved in to Lane 3 and then wandered around between 50 and 60mph.
But not to worry. M&S got their cream cakes on time and that's what matters.

Edited by Crossflow Kid on Monday 31st December 00:26

Firstly its oftern the old biddy in the micra that sits in the middle lane at 55 or the inside lane at 50 that speeds up going down hill so you start to overtake only to have your speed matched so you end up trapped in lane two, anyway blame the EU for the elepant raceing they mandated road speed limiters set at 56mph or less drivers hours and rest breaks so you have to work to the clock ...Oh and green energy and recyling a revolution !!!???In what?? stupidity ??? windmills that cost $$$$££££ and wreck the landscape produce very little power just enrich landowners and foreign companys,recyleing what sending plastic to china and not allowing burning or waste to make power...

[truck71]

Blimey, this all got a bit lairy. Crossflow Kid, my comment was simply given as a bit of support to someone who's had a tough day. Truck drivers have a very stressful job, I am simply acknowledging that having done it myself in the past (now a desk jockey but still in the industry). You make some interesting and I believe valid points but to come on to a truck forum spouting as you have suggests a lack of understanding of the conditions these guys operate in. A more polite approach might give your points more chance to be heard. You appear to have also seriously personally slandered me by suggesting I maybe into Country and Western!

As you were.

[ZR1cliff]

Great idea of crossflow's - in an already struggling economy, let's shed 10% of the jobs in the haulage trade and put more people out of work. Factor in the 10% loss in HGV fuel tax revenue to the economy and it's 'job done'

Reminds me of the type of person that moves into a new house and then wants to stop further building developement to preserve their idea of their little dream.

[Humper]

ZR1cliff said:

Great idea of crossflow's - in an already struggling economy, let's shed 10% of the jobs in the haulage trade and put more people out of work. Factor in the 10% loss in HGV fuel tax revenue to the economy and it's 'job done'

Reminds me of the type of person that moves into a new house and then wants to stop further building developement to preserve their idea of their little dream.

[TIGERSIX]

Just seen this thread well now smithfield it is priceless on a normal night.We used to deliver duck for shingfields from norfolk to this pleasurable destination ,once had some person not of Caucasian origin ram the osrw of my truck n just drive off with best part of the front of his motor trashed confused slightly just carried on to Portsmouth .With OP you do just have to sit and smile and drink a coffee .