Make HGVs and rigid lorries carry snowchains

[davepoth]

Getragdogleg said:

davepoth said:

Getragdogleg said:

Bluebarge said:

No reason for them not to have winter tyres - they all use remoulds anyway so it's not like it would be a massive expense. I think winter tyres should be compulsory for all public service vehicles - emergency services, buses and essential logistics (food + fuel delivery).

Don't be daft, "not expensive", go and price up 16 truck tyres (6 supersingles,
10 normal width for the tractor unit) and come back and tell me how much they are, oh, I don't "use remoulds" at all so price up new ones.

Then we can work out how long it will take to pay for them.

Another thing, I work in Cornwall, we don't get snow here so we have never needed to worry about traction unless we go further afield, but then we are mostly on motorways anyway.

I read that a truck tyre lasts about 50,000 miles. Eddie Stobart have a fleet average of 365 miles a day for their trucks, which is as near as damn it 100,000 miles a year. If those two numbers are anything like correct for the general trucking population then it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to put a set of tyres on for summer, and another set for winter.

FFS, we are not all Stobarts size you know.

I am out, once again I hve been sucked into discussing something I know about with people who know nothing about it yet think they do and seem to want "something done" about a problem that does not really exist.

No, you aren't all Stobart. But then I do know that you don't like to leave your trucks and drivers standing idle for hours every day, given how much I have to pay for waiting charges. If the 100,000 mile number is off, then give a better number.

Either way, mandatory winter tyres (as in a fair bit of Europe) would be a level playing field. Everyone would suffer the same economic loss and would put the same extra charge onto their rates, so everyone would be even.

[andym1603]

Tunku said:

Cue the unprepared car driver who slides stopping the big truck behind him.

There is your problem. If the car driver is prepared and the car is ready for the weather, good tread on the correctly inflated tyres ( does'nt have to be winter tyres ), the driver can see where they are going,looking furthar than the edge of the bonnet and the accelerator pedal is not held to the floor causing the driven wheels to sit and spin. The roads should be kept clear in all except extreme circumsatances.

[Getragdogleg]

davepoth said:

Getragdogleg said:

davepoth said:

Getragdogleg said:

Bluebarge said:

No reason for them not to have winter tyres - they all use remoulds anyway so it's not like it would be a massive expense. I think winter tyres should be compulsory for all public service vehicles - emergency services, buses and essential logistics (food + fuel delivery).

Don't be daft, "not expensive", go and price up 16 truck tyres (6 supersingles,
10 normal width for the tractor unit) and come back and tell me how much they are, oh, I don't "use remoulds" at all so price up new ones.

Then we can work out how long it will take to pay for them.

Another thing, I work in Cornwall, we don't get snow here so we have never needed to worry about traction unless we go further afield, but then we are mostly on motorways anyway.

I read that a truck tyre lasts about 50,000 miles. Eddie Stobart have a fleet average of 365 miles a day for their trucks, which is as near as damn it 100,000 miles a year. If those two numbers are anything like correct for the general trucking population then it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to put a set of tyres on for summer, and another set for winter.

FFS, we are not all Stobarts size you know.

I am out, once again I hve been sucked into discussing something I know about with people who know nothing about it yet think they do and seem to want "something done" about a problem that does not really exist.

No, you aren't all Stobart. But then I do know that you don't like to leave your trucks and drivers standing idle for hours every day, given how much I have to pay for waiting charges. If the 100,000 mile number is off, then give a better number.

Either way, mandatory winter tyres (as in a fair bit of Europe) would be a level playing field. Everyone would suffer the same economic loss and would put the same extra charge onto their rates, so everyone would be even.

I know I said I was out of here but this is like a scab I must pick.

No, I would not ever need to use winter tyres, the sort of work I do does not give me a need or any safety advantage and making it compulsory would just be another expensive thing to comply with. I live and work in the most mild part of GB, Cornwall, we get cold weather but snow is rare, very rare and we run 5 trucks that do maybe 30 to 60k each a year depending on the truck and whether it is on local or distance. We occasionally run a container truck to Cannock or southhampton and have not had any trouble with snow or traction EVER.

In short, making more things compulsory is a bad idea because we are not the same as some of the mainland EU countries, our climate is very mild in comparison and we really don't know what snow even is !

[dvs_dave]

Ok, so most lorry tractors in the the UK have one driven axle with double tyres on each side. Why not just put one all-season tyre on per side? At least then you have a modicum of traction on the slippy stuff to keep you moving. Full winters are overkill for the UK but decent all-seasons make the most sense for the climate. At least this way it doesn't kill your fuel consumption or require you to re-tire the vehicle each season. Again for the trailers which usually have 3 axles, just put a set of all seasons on one of the axles so that the trailer maintains some sort of braking ability in the snow and you're not jack knifing every 3 miles.

At most you're talking 4 tires per lorry that can be left on year round, has a negligible effect on fuel consumption and you don't have to worry about an increased wear rate so the cost/benefit is I'm sure well worth it. Especially if you're replacing the tyres anyway.

[Getragdogleg]

[Loose Chippings]

The haulage industry is skint enough as it is without forcing more costs on haulage companies to buy winter tyres/snow chains in a country where we hardly see a lot of snow some winters. I've seen more cars stuck in snow than I have trucks. There would be another outcry if the hauliers had to pass costs for such equipment to their customers.

[Tunku]

Loose Chippings said:

The haulage industry is skint enough as it is without forcing more costs on haulage companies to buy winter tyres/snow chains in a country where we hardly see a lot of snow some winters. I've seen more cars stuck in snow than I have trucks. There would be another outcry if the hauliers had to pass costs for such equipment to their customers.

Snow chains used for five minutes to save twelve hours of time. Fitting time half an hour, same to take them off. £150 to £250 for the chains, retail, which will last years passed onto successive lorries. Like I said, you can push a car out of the way, try that with a lorry. Lorries cost money when immobilised, cars are mostly just an inconvenience.

[arfur daley]

Why dont you push the cars out of the way when they block you, like Smokey and the Bandit?

[GC8]

Tunku said:

Would this be a viable idea?
Seems to me that most motorway and normal road problems are caused by blockages by big vehicles being defeated by gradients.

Has anyone pointed out that your topic title is a nonsense?

Rigid and articulated goods vehicles which weigh over 7.5 tonnes are 'HGVs'. Some might argue that having little idea what youre talking about affects the credibility of your argument.

Not that complete lack of knowledge stops most people from posting drivel, of course.

[cptsideways]

There is some stupid man maths going on in this thread, they only need the winter tyres on the driven wheels, so not 16 of them.

If my 2.3 ton Landcruiser on Michelin LTX winters can pull a fully laden 44ton arctic up Shaftesbury A30 hill (its pretty steep) it kind of suggests the tyres were the problem on the truck. The truck made better progress when he did'nt use his drive wheels as they simply the slid the thing into the curb. The driver was gobsmacked that my LC80 did it with relative ease all be it slowly. Oh Yeah & I have an HGV licence too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVPOvgX1vxE

[XDA]

Getragdogleg said:

XDA said:

No, trucks don't get held up in snow but they instead jackknife and block the whole road. Presumably due to some drivers believing they are invincible.

Yes, it's such a problem. The country grinds to a halt and everyone has to stay at home because of all the jackknifing trucks. Hell, I jackknifed 9 times today taking my total for the week so far to a record 83 full twists resulting in gridlock all over the country. Good job we are an island or I could have locked up mainland Europe all on my own as well.

I wish I was just a car driver, those guys are perfect.

Not as perfect as truck drivers obviously!

[XDA]

GC8 said:

XDA said:

No, trucks don't get held up in snow but they instead jackknife and block the whole road. Presumably due to some drivers believing they are invincible.

On your way, fool.

Right-o.

[Getragdogleg]

XDA said:

Not as perfect as truck drivers obviously!

Compared to you we are just pond life, we bow down to your superior skills and wait with baited breath for your next post. Such is the depth of your awesomeness we are at the point of giving up driving because we could never be as clever and brilliant as you.

Master.

[Chrisgr31]

What is really needed is a consistent approach to the UKs traffic for when it snows. A local councillor I know ischair of the committee that decides on grtting routes etc. I suggeted, slightly tongue in cheek to him, that in fact when it snows they shouldn't bother gritting at all. This is because most people who arent prepared for the conditions (with winter tyres or a 4x4) arent going out anyway because they cant get from their ungritted road to the gritted one. For most people its only a short distance alonmg the ungritted road and therefore its not worth buying chains because you have to muck around putting them on, drive a little way, then take them off again whenyou get to the gritted road. If no roads were gritted then the whole journey would be on chains which makes it worth fitting them, so not gritting would encourage people to take the steps necessary to cope in the snow. As I say it was a tongue in cheek comment but with an element of reasoning behind it.

As regards roads getting blocked when it snows my general experience is that often the roads have been gritted, but the grit requires the traffic to be moving in order to work. However when it snows too many people slow down excessively, they therefore get stuck on the 1st incline they come to. Now they may get going agian but in the meantime traffic has built up behind them, and that takes time to get moving and if its cars they can be pushed. Commercial vehicles are to heavy to push!

So what we actually want is those who are incapable of driving in snow to stay at home leaving the roads available for those that can. Its usually down to technique rather than the vehicle. We were discussing this on the train this morning as someone I was travelling with said their snow socks were great, I said my 4x4 was great, and he then said a friend of his with a brand new Range Rover had crashed it. Why did he crash it? Because he forgot that whilst they may be aboe to get going in ice and snow, stopping can be difficult!

[s p a c e m a n]

I imagine that this is how the EU parliment works. Someone has half an idea with limited knowledge and then the ones with the experience spend hours trying to explain to a feasebility study why it would be a pointless excersize 99% of the time.

Considering the point that time is money do you not think that if this was a real issue that the people running the companies would have implemented something? The only vehicles I am aware of that occasionaly do anything along these lines are public service vehicles for particular reasons.

[XDA]

Getragdogleg said:

XDA said:

Not as perfect as truck drivers obviously!

Compared to you we are just pond life, we bow down to your superior skills and wait with baited breath for your next post. Such is the depth of your awesomeness we are at the point of giving up driving because we could never be as clever and brilliant as you.

Master.

I was going to say the exact same thing to you!

[Humper]

I'm all for lorries staying at home if it snows. Well, my lorry anyway

I'd rather be out building snowmen & sledging as long as i get paid*

• Bugger, knew there was a flaw somewhere.....

[Digby]

Slow said:

Yet my car with almost bald tyres drove just fine.... I think the real fix is people need to learn to drive on snow and to slow down.

Dec 2012:

(This was on winter tyres)

Slow said:

Recently discovered my focus is st on the snow after going side ways through a junction at like 15mph

Slow said:

I was just driving in a line then it started to spin

Slow said:

i NEED a 4x4 to get up and down a big hill to get home

[GC8]

Unless that was a feat of memory its a bid sad, but it was an epic fail for Mr Slow!

[Digby]

Not memory.I am that sad!

I scanned back through his posts with such investigative determination, you would swear I was on the final stages of my mission to crack The Da Vinci Code.When I saw those postings, I yelled "I'VE GOT HIM!" so loudly, I woke the neighbours dog..and we are detached!


I will sleep well now.

Edited by Digby on Tuesday 19th March 21:58