would you "grass up" your employer?
Discussion
Panda76 said:
No need to contact VOSA in the experience we had at work late last year.
We use contractors for some work and whilst I was shunting,said contractors trailer was put under the canopy to be loaded.
Upon loading the forkies put some ballast at the back,then continued to load,as they do with our 44t rated trailers from the front down to the ballast.
Didn't take much strain for it to eventually snap,and it did snap good and proper.From the legs forward the trailer snapped and it's headboard was on the floor.
Turns out upon some further inspection that whilst the contractor said his trailers were rated for 44t work,they weren't.They were rated for 38t work and taking the strain of being loaded like this as a stand trailer,one of them snapped.Cost them a pretty penny,and not just replacing the trailer,tieing up the pad on a very busy site,wrecker etc etc...Almost cost them the contract.
They now use 44t rated trailers.
I am not involved in trucks at all but I am surprised a trailer rated for 38t would snap with a 44t load on it. Would have thought the over engineering would cope with that sort of differential.We use contractors for some work and whilst I was shunting,said contractors trailer was put under the canopy to be loaded.
Upon loading the forkies put some ballast at the back,then continued to load,as they do with our 44t rated trailers from the front down to the ballast.
Didn't take much strain for it to eventually snap,and it did snap good and proper.From the legs forward the trailer snapped and it's headboard was on the floor.
Turns out upon some further inspection that whilst the contractor said his trailers were rated for 44t work,they weren't.They were rated for 38t work and taking the strain of being loaded like this as a stand trailer,one of them snapped.Cost them a pretty penny,and not just replacing the trailer,tieing up the pad on a very busy site,wrecker etc etc...Almost cost them the contract.
They now use 44t rated trailers.
However as others have said if the OP gets taken by VOSA to the weighbridge then he'll be the one with points. Happened round here with dustcarts, the drivers got the points, although the Council paid the fine.
Chrisgr31 said:
I am not involved in trucks at all but I am surprised a trailer rated for 38t would snap with a 44t load on it. Would have thought the over engineering would cope with that sort of differential.
However as others have said if the OP gets taken by VOSA to the weighbridge then he'll be the one with points. Happened round here with dustcarts, the drivers got the points, although the Council paid the fine.
It snapped ahead of the landing legs whilst it was parked with no tractor unit under it. It probably had a bolt on neck section which simply tore away. An example of a 13.6m trailer designed to take 26 Uk pallets or 33 Euro pallets evenly spaced along its length. The landing legs are usually inboard about 3.5 to 4 metres so in reality there could be as much as 29,000kg total load / 26 pallets = 1115kg each and if there are 4 each side that's almost 9 tonnes ahead of the fulcrum. Most trailer manufacturers recommend no more than 6 or 7 tonnes in such situations and that's on a full 44t design trailer !However as others have said if the OP gets taken by VOSA to the weighbridge then he'll be the one with points. Happened round here with dustcarts, the drivers got the points, although the Council paid the fine.
So its easy to see why it split or folded the legs and collapsed and then split.
As for VED evasion. If the tractor unit is downrated to 34000kg on 6 axles the Road Fund will be £165 as against £1200 for 44000kg. So the total saving is £1035 per truck per year.
If stopped you will not be guilty of any individual axle overloads but you will be guilty of operating at a total overload of anything up to 30% or thereabouts. The VOSA people will certainly push for a prosecution and points IMHO.
How much trouble must a business be in to be clutching at straws to save £20 per week on road fund on a truck that probably drinks £1200 per week on diesel.
Effort would be better spent on ensuring such things as tyre pressures are perfect always, tractor and trailer wheel alignment is accurate, matching wind deflector to trailer height, not running tall trailers when a shorter one will do, reducing idling time, push for green band driving etc.
Any one of these will pay more dividends than saving a poxy £20 per week on running hooky.
A
If stopped you will not be guilty of any individual axle overloads but you will be guilty of operating at a total overload of anything up to 30% or thereabouts. The VOSA people will certainly push for a prosecution and points IMHO.
How much trouble must a business be in to be clutching at straws to save £20 per week on road fund on a truck that probably drinks £1200 per week on diesel.
Effort would be better spent on ensuring such things as tyre pressures are perfect always, tractor and trailer wheel alignment is accurate, matching wind deflector to trailer height, not running tall trailers when a shorter one will do, reducing idling time, push for green band driving etc.
Any one of these will pay more dividends than saving a poxy £20 per week on running hooky.
A
rumple said:
It would depend on the employer, the job market, how he went about telling me, some I've worked for I would do it for, some I would not, some Id grass up.
This, but judging from your post you may as well start looking for another job anyway. Underplating a couple of vehicles and occasionally running them hookey is hardly the end of the world, if someone is doing it to an entire fleet the chances of them surviving much longer are slim. As said there are other ways to economise and if they are going to these lengths for a few quid a month then they are soon to be running out of cash, not paying your wages, knocking invoices.. thats if they manage to keep their operators license for long enough. jas xjr said:
as i understand it , if you were stopped by the police and taken to a weighbridge you would be 10 tons overloaded . not only would your employer be fined , so would you .
i cannot understand you agreeing to drive that vehicle
given the driver would be reamed by the Courts and TC as well as the operator ... i cannot understand you agreeing to drive that vehicle
which is one of the reasons why most of the LWB courer vans where i'm currently working areself loaded by the drivers
cherad said:
I don't know exactly what "downrated" means in this case, not being in that industry, but if it made the lorries more dangerous on the road then people's lives are at risk. In that case I couldn't live with keeping that to myself. Sometimes you've got to do what's right, not what's best.
generally it;s case of getting new loading plates made up, getting a new 'ministry plate' and in some cases changing springs it leads to reduced VED - which is the reason to try and dodge it
obviously down plating can be legit - for instance if you carry divan bed bases, pillows, low density furniture foam, bog roll or empty cans and bottles to a bottling plant you are going to 'bulk out' before you run out of weight - so if your bulked out wieght takes you down a tax class...
this is the reason behind the longer trailers trial that ES and a coupel of other hauliers are involved in and why DickDenby reckons me could run his double trailer monster legitimiately even at 44tonnes
Chrisgr31 said:
Panda76 said:
No need to contact VOSA in the experience we had at work late last year.
We use contractors for some work and whilst I was shunting,said contractors trailer was put under the canopy to be loaded.
Upon loading the forkies put some ballast at the back,then continued to load,as they do with our 44t rated trailers from the front down to the ballast.
Didn't take much strain for it to eventually snap,and it did snap good and proper.From the legs forward the trailer snapped and it's headboard was on the floor.
Turns out upon some further inspection that whilst the contractor said his trailers were rated for 44t work,they weren't.They were rated for 38t work and taking the strain of being loaded like this as a stand trailer,one of them snapped.Cost them a pretty penny,and not just replacing the trailer,tieing up the pad on a very busy site,wrecker etc etc...Almost cost them the contract.
They now use 44t rated trailers.
I am not involved in trucks at all but I am surprised a trailer rated for 38t would snap with a 44t load on it. Would have thought the over engineering would cope with that sort of differential.We use contractors for some work and whilst I was shunting,said contractors trailer was put under the canopy to be loaded.
Upon loading the forkies put some ballast at the back,then continued to load,as they do with our 44t rated trailers from the front down to the ballast.
Didn't take much strain for it to eventually snap,and it did snap good and proper.From the legs forward the trailer snapped and it's headboard was on the floor.
Turns out upon some further inspection that whilst the contractor said his trailers were rated for 44t work,they weren't.They were rated for 38t work and taking the strain of being loaded like this as a stand trailer,one of them snapped.Cost them a pretty penny,and not just replacing the trailer,tieing up the pad on a very busy site,wrecker etc etc...Almost cost them the contract.
They now use 44t rated trailers.
However as others have said if the OP gets taken by VOSA to the weighbridge then he'll be the one with points. Happened round here with dustcarts, the drivers got the points, although the Council paid the fine.
Other depots are also guilty of incorrect unloading procedures on a stand trailer,A lot,even though they are told not to do so,will unload all one side of a stand trailer.You can see the angle of a stood trailer really changes,in other words the chassis is twisting.
Subjecting an under rated trailer to these conditions will take it's toll a lot quicker than one that is rated for the job.
Unfortunately for this particular trailer I was talking about it snapped at the neck,it wasn't any kind of bolt failure,the top steel of the chassis ripped open and put the headboard on the floor.At first I thought the loaders had made a school boy error of not putting some ballast at the rear,which upon loading would make the trailer tip up on it's nose.Not so,it snapped.
Not one of ours or a contractor but this as an example of a forkies school boy error forgetting about ballast.If it can do this,imagine the immense pressure put on the front of the chassis when it does have ballast at the rear to stop it tipping up.
Chipchap said:
As for VED evasion. If the tractor unit is downrated to 34000kg on 6 axles the Road Fund will be £165 as against £1200 for 44000kg. So the total saving is £1035 per truck per year.
And here's me having just shelled out £220 odd (exact figure escapes me) for less than 1000kg and two poxy axles, and I'm just about to lose nigh on £500 *ucking quid for another 600kgs on top of that, but still only two axles, and another £220+ for the old one. Even the piddly little bike is £30 or so. Do I need to start driving like a 
/cottaging/dogging/get fat before I'm eligable for this special reward? I'm quite near Scratch Woods on the A1 if anyone fancies a bit of midnight buggery?? Or have I missed something?And to cap it *ucking all, Pistonheads mobile site is probably the least usable website in the bloody world. I typed this on my s
tty iPhone, yet have had to email it to myself so I can post from my laptop, due to an 'expectation error' - what, from Pistonheads?? No st!Maybe it's a bit sad emailing myself just to type a pathetic inebriated grumble, but I don't care, I feel like I'm suffering yet more posterior abuse from the great and good..
Id be interested to know how VOSA would respond. Their primary concern is safety apparently, and a down-plated/dutied vehicle is safe at 44 tonnes no matter what the tax disc cost.
It is a very different proposition to that of an eight wheel 32 tonne vehicle being weighed at 42 tonnes, after all.
Of course, if theyre messing about like this to save £20 per week then what is maintenance like?
It is a very different proposition to that of an eight wheel 32 tonne vehicle being weighed at 42 tonnes, after all.
Of course, if theyre messing about like this to save £20 per week then what is maintenance like?
Sounds like the OP could do with a full list of known WIMS sights or the moral question will be answered without a choice, I know there is one on the A13 somewhere, one on the midlands M6 and one around jnc21 on the M62.
If the tax is changed then the ANPR should link that to the vehicle weight straight away and then the big trouble starts!!
Even with a family to feed I'm afraid I would grass over the choice of getting it in the neck from VOSA and probably being sacked as a scapegoat, we all know who has responsibility when that truck hits the public road, if VOSA see the chance of multiple fines (driver plus company) they will jump all over it.
If the tax is changed then the ANPR should link that to the vehicle weight straight away and then the big trouble starts!!
Even with a family to feed I'm afraid I would grass over the choice of getting it in the neck from VOSA and probably being sacked as a scapegoat, we all know who has responsibility when that truck hits the public road, if VOSA see the chance of multiple fines (driver plus company) they will jump all over it.
Just load what you can,which is enough to take you up to your MGW,34T.
If you do general haulage for anybody then they might not be to bothered if you are running under taxed but blue chip deffo will be.
You can't be sacked for running legal,take photos on your phone to keep for a rainy day or send an anomymous e mail to your regional traffic commisioner.
If you do general haulage for anybody then they might not be to bothered if you are running under taxed but blue chip deffo will be.
You can't be sacked for running legal,take photos on your phone to keep for a rainy day or send an anomymous e mail to your regional traffic commisioner.
jas xjr said:
if he gets caught , he will not be able to . lån trods rki
exactly my point. I was about to say that mind blog: lånogsparpenge.dk
Edited by johngflynn657 on Thursday 5th April 10:24
I've read the thread and followed this from the beginning, here's some of my input and experiences on the subject,
Some years ago I worked for a haulier well known throughout the UK, and they carried out both local and distance work, I will not go into too much detail as I do not wish to give clues/name them.
Anyway, when the distance units had done 2-3 years they were put onto local work, some were earmarked to do both, helping out the distance side when it was busy, those that were put on purely local work were down rated to 38t and road taxed accordingly, the ones that were doing both local/distance stayed at 44t
However one local job involved picking up 45' containers on skeletal or flat trailers, all pre loaded, basically a clunk click job, and not once was the issue of the GTW of the local units questioned, no one even batted an eyelid. That went on for some years before I left, I have no idea if its still the same.
We were NEVER stopped at roadside checks, pulled in as the operation was seen as so squeaky clean, however once you worked there it was evident things weren't quite as squeaky clean as it was thought to be.
I never said anything as I always had a 44t unit so was unaffected.
Some years ago I worked for a haulier well known throughout the UK, and they carried out both local and distance work, I will not go into too much detail as I do not wish to give clues/name them.
Anyway, when the distance units had done 2-3 years they were put onto local work, some were earmarked to do both, helping out the distance side when it was busy, those that were put on purely local work were down rated to 38t and road taxed accordingly, the ones that were doing both local/distance stayed at 44t
However one local job involved picking up 45' containers on skeletal or flat trailers, all pre loaded, basically a clunk click job, and not once was the issue of the GTW of the local units questioned, no one even batted an eyelid. That went on for some years before I left, I have no idea if its still the same.
We were NEVER stopped at roadside checks, pulled in as the operation was seen as so squeaky clean, however once you worked there it was evident things weren't quite as squeaky clean as it was thought to be.
I never said anything as I always had a 44t unit so was unaffected.
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