Another fine..
Discussion
Didn't use the moffett in the zone.The fine came from the plate being pinged apparently as I came over London bridge (A3).Our head office made some inquiries and apparently, it was suggested that I cover the plate when in the zone if it's not in use (waiting for updates on this).
It seems many of our curtain siders have not been fined purely as the plates are not visible to the cameras when mounted on the trucks.Mine is visible as it's on a flat bed.
It's now been suggested that we have another plate made up and that I will need to remove the trucks number plate from the moffett and insert the moffett plate when in use, as apposed to having the trucks plate on the rear and the moffett plate on the front corner.
It seems many of our curtain siders have not been fined purely as the plates are not visible to the cameras when mounted on the trucks.Mine is visible as it's on a flat bed.
It's now been suggested that we have another plate made up and that I will need to remove the trucks number plate from the moffett and insert the moffett plate when in use, as apposed to having the trucks plate on the rear and the moffett plate on the front corner.
mph1977 said:
more fool the OP for not removing / turning over/ covering the plate of the moffett when it's on the truck ...
Even the relevant contacted authorities regarding this are "getting back" to us as they were unsure.Hardly suprising the hundreds of drivers in our organisation would have had no idea.Digby said:
mph1977 said:
more fool the OP for not removing / turning over/ covering the plate of the moffett when it's on the truck ...
Even the relevant contacted authorities regarding this are "getting back" to us as they were unsure.Hardly suprising the hundreds of drivers in our organisation would have had no idea.mph1977 said:
while a moffett or other 'mountie' type fork truck isn't a trailer per-se ( being it has no wheels on the road when 'mountied' up surely the same legal principles as other vehicles as trailers apply ...
No idea.The powers that be wanted to see them all taxed and registered (depending on how and where they are used and over what distances etc) and they also wanted the plates fitted.We did all they asked and were never told we would be fined for having on show the very plate they requested.But then we were also never told that the so called 'refresher' courses for these vehicles (as pointless as the CPC in my opinion and another money maker) was actually another test.Fail your refresher and you wouldn't be able to work the following day and of course, you would have to pay to re-book.It's extremely easy to fail, too.
I love the way the government and councils flood the streets with tales of area rejuvenation and affordable homes etc, then appear to bend over backwards to fine the very people required to make this happen.There are now so many rules, regulations, restrictions and often near impossible to avoid scenarios which will result in a fine (and that's not including the now self funded regular Vosa stops) that it's almost become part of the job.
iva cosworth said:
Rumple said:
If you are asking me then yes.
You probably haven't had any issues with fines as the cc cameras are on street corners etc,and you probablyDidn't go far enough on the forks to get seen on camera.
I was asking Digby but thanks for answering.
On the subject of Moffat licences where I train for mine it was explained to me that the licence was just a form of insurance that covered the firms arse.
Digby said:
mph1977 said:
while a moffett or other 'mountie' type fork truck isn't a trailer per-se ( being it has no wheels on the road when 'mountied' up surely the same legal principles as other vehicles as trailers apply ...
No idea.The powers that be wanted to see them all taxed and registered (depending on how and where they are used and over what distances etc) and they also wanted the plates fitted.We did all they asked and were never told we would be fined for having on show the very plate they requested.see comment re trailers with regard to displaying the registration plate when loaded onto a vehicle, especially if the correct registration of the carrying is obscured.
Digby said:
But then we were also never told that the so called 'refresher' courses for these vehicles (as pointless as the CPC in my opinion and another money maker) was actually another test.Fail your refresher and you wouldn't be able to work the following day and of course, you would have to pay to re-book.It's extremely easy to fail, too.
Poor operating practice of MHE is a substantial cause of time lost injuries ... never mind the costs to a business of stock damage or equipment repairs from poor operating practice.Digby said:
I love the way the government and councils flood the streets with tales of area rejuvenation and affordable homes etc, then appear to bend over backwards to fine the very people required to make this happen.There are now so many rules, regulations, restrictions and often near impossible to avoid scenarios which will result in a fine (and that's not including the now self funded regular Vosa stops) that it's almost become part of the job.
VOSA have existed for many years prior to getting their own stopping powers , which came around becasue it was quite correctly determined to be a waste of time for a COnstable to be employed solely to direct vehicles to stop or to 'follow', stop and direct vehicles to VOSA checkpoints ... the amount of work VOSA and the TCs have shows how common running bent is in the road transport industry ...
mph1977 said:
they are mechanically proppelled vehicles used commercially on the queen's highway - why shouldn't they be registered and taxed ...
A common sense answer is because the lorry they are attached to is already paying a huge amount of tax, and of course in many cases the truck could be unloaded by a forklift working out of the unit receiving the delivery that often wont be taxed or registered.This may not be the legally correct answer but I suspect the vast majority of people questioned in the street would believe it would be taxed as part of the lorry it is carried on.
Do many companies still run bent? I don't know of any.Almost all the drivers I know are now subjected to signed daily check sheets, weekly and year total tachograph infringement documents pinned to notice boards and H&S courses coming out of their ar$es.Our CPC instructors pointed out we can expect many more stops in the coming years due to funding changes (they also have so far all agreed that the CPC courses are mostly a waste of time) and sure enough, it's happening.
My last stop involved at least half a dozen uniformed police officers, several police bikes, a few police cars, specific people to check tachographs, specific people to lay underneath the vehicles and check roadworthiness etc and a uniformed police officer to take down all my details.Yet you say this came about due to it being deemed a waste to have the police direct a vehicle to a stopping point? Before the changes, my last check involved two people in total and any vehicles pulled over simply had to wait their turn.It now seems more like an industry out for profit due to the smallest indiscretion as apposed to taking dangerous drivers and vehicles off our roads.
As for the moffett situation, being told to display a plate, forget all about it if on a sepcific kind of lorry but to cover, remove, then reattach if on another type of vehicle (or risk yet another fine) and that they will "get back to us" before these suggestions manifested, hardly puts me in the "more fool the op" camp, does it?
I watched our instructor pull away in his car and could have picked holes in his actions just as easily, that in no way makes him an unsafe driver.
My last stop involved at least half a dozen uniformed police officers, several police bikes, a few police cars, specific people to check tachographs, specific people to lay underneath the vehicles and check roadworthiness etc and a uniformed police officer to take down all my details.Yet you say this came about due to it being deemed a waste to have the police direct a vehicle to a stopping point? Before the changes, my last check involved two people in total and any vehicles pulled over simply had to wait their turn.It now seems more like an industry out for profit due to the smallest indiscretion as apposed to taking dangerous drivers and vehicles off our roads.
As for the moffett situation, being told to display a plate, forget all about it if on a sepcific kind of lorry but to cover, remove, then reattach if on another type of vehicle (or risk yet another fine) and that they will "get back to us" before these suggestions manifested, hardly puts me in the "more fool the op" camp, does it?
mph1977 said:
Poor operating practice of MHE is a substantial cause of time lost injuries ... never mind the costs to a business of stock damage or equipment repairs from poor operating practice.
Absolutely, but then not everyone jumps on a machine and tears around with scant regard for safety.You can fail and have to pay again, for example, for rubbing your forks on the deck of a truck, yet it's not always possible not to gently rub or touch the bed.Our instructor took great delight in telling us how many competent machine operators he has failed due to them forgetting to check over both shoulders the "correct" amount of times in an empty warehouse (yet they would always check when on a busy site), or how they forgot to apply the handbrake for the tenth time on a flat surface, during a simple pallet maneuver, on a machine which locks the brakes as soon as you come off the throttle anyway.Or how about forgetting to place their hand in the correct place as they scaled the dizzying foot high climb into the cockpit, despite the fact it was in the same place as it was on a different machine, with the only difference being a different shaped piece of metal? It seems it's less about safety these days and all about avoiding the trend to sue.I watched our instructor pull away in his car and could have picked holes in his actions just as easily, that in no way makes him an unsafe driver.
Chrisgr31 said:
A common sense answer is because the lorry they are attached to is already paying a huge amount of tax, and of course in many cases the truck could be unloaded by a forklift working out of the unit receiving the delivery that often wont be taxed or registered.
Absolutely and is what the majority assumed to be the case.My moffett probably covers less than 100 miles a year and spends most of its time on building sites.I fill the small fuel tank and it lasts for months!Edited by Digby on Sunday 3rd November 08:18
Digby - i can;t help the fact your instructor is a adenoidal , anal muppet ...
however he is personally liable under PUWER for the training he delivers and the actions of trainees he passes ...
i'd be interested to know how long he's been in the business and how much experience he has as an actual forkie and/or team leader role . -only becasue i've seen similar problems in first aid training with people who have done the train the trainer course and suddenly believe they are god of emergency care - rather than those who come in to teaching first aid after a career in the 999 services ( assuming they can limit their ego and war stories)or experience in the volunteer or NHS Ambulance sector...
however he is personally liable under PUWER for the training he delivers and the actions of trainees he passes ...
i'd be interested to know how long he's been in the business and how much experience he has as an actual forkie and/or team leader role . -only becasue i've seen similar problems in first aid training with people who have done the train the trainer course and suddenly believe they are god of emergency care - rather than those who come in to teaching first aid after a career in the 999 services ( assuming they can limit their ego and war stories)or experience in the volunteer or NHS Ambulance sector...
Digby said:
Do many companies still run bent? I don't know of any.Almost all the drivers I know are now subjected to signed daily check sheets, weekly and year total tachograph infringement documents pinned to notice boards and H&S courses coming out of their ar$es.Our CPC instructors pointed out we can expect many more stops in the coming years due to funding changes (they also have so far all agreed that the CPC courses are mostly a waste of time) and sure enough, it's happening.
My last stop involved at least half a dozen uniformed police officers, several police bikes, a few police cars, specific people to check tachographs, specific people to lay underneath the vehicles and check roadworthiness etc and a uniformed police officer to take down all my details.Yet you say this came about due to it being deemed a waste to have the police direct a vehicle to a stopping point? Before the changes, my last check involved two people in total and any vehicles pulled over simply had to wait their turn.It now seems more like an industry out for profit due to the smallest indiscretion as apposed to taking dangerous drivers and vehicles off our roads.
As for the moffett situation, being told to display a plate, forget all about it if on a sepcific kind of lorry but to cover, remove, then reattach if on another type of vehicle (or risk yet another fine) and that they will "get back to us" before these suggestions manifested, hardly puts me in the "more fool the op" camp, does it?
I watched our instructor pull away in his car and could have picked holes in his actions just as easily, that in no way makes him an unsafe driver.
I came off the road this year and took a job with DHL, until then I pretty much always 'run bent', there are plenty of firms that do it, friends of mine still do.My last stop involved at least half a dozen uniformed police officers, several police bikes, a few police cars, specific people to check tachographs, specific people to lay underneath the vehicles and check roadworthiness etc and a uniformed police officer to take down all my details.Yet you say this came about due to it being deemed a waste to have the police direct a vehicle to a stopping point? Before the changes, my last check involved two people in total and any vehicles pulled over simply had to wait their turn.It now seems more like an industry out for profit due to the smallest indiscretion as apposed to taking dangerous drivers and vehicles off our roads.
As for the moffett situation, being told to display a plate, forget all about it if on a sepcific kind of lorry but to cover, remove, then reattach if on another type of vehicle (or risk yet another fine) and that they will "get back to us" before these suggestions manifested, hardly puts me in the "more fool the op" camp, does it?
mph1977 said:
Poor operating practice of MHE is a substantial cause of time lost injuries ... never mind the costs to a business of stock damage or equipment repairs from poor operating practice.
Absolutely, but then not everyone jumps on a machine and tears around with scant regard for safety.You can fail and have to pay again, for example, for rubbing your forks on the deck of a truck, yet it's not always possible not to gently rub or touch the bed.Our instructor took great delight in telling us how many competent machine operators he has failed due to them forgetting to check over both shoulders the "correct" amount of times in an empty warehouse (yet they would always check when on a busy site), or how they forgot to apply the handbrake for the tenth time on a flat surface, during a simple pallet maneuver, on a machine which locks the brakes as soon as you come off the throttle anyway.Or how about forgetting to place their hand in the correct place as they scaled the dizzying foot high climb into the cockpit, despite the fact it was in the same place as it was on a different machine, with the only difference being a different shaped piece of metal? It seems it's less about safety these days and all about avoiding the trend to sue.I watched our instructor pull away in his car and could have picked holes in his actions just as easily, that in no way makes him an unsafe driver.
Chrisgr31 said:
A common sense answer is because the lorry they are attached to is already paying a huge amount of tax, and of course in many cases the truck could be unloaded by a forklift working out of the unit receiving the delivery that often wont be taxed or registered.
Absolutely and is what the majority assumed to be the case.My moffett probably covers less than 100 miles a year and spends most of its time on building sites.I fill the small fuel tank and it lasts for months!Edited by Digby on Sunday 3rd November 08:18
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