I respect your job, but come on guys, must you be so un-pro?
Discussion
I've posted about this before, as comments in other threads.
But due to my choice of driving style, it's really coming to a head for me lately, and so I thought I might ask the pros themselves on this forum, for their comments and ideas.
Ok - having been a road user both on bikes and in cars and vans for over 25 years now (plus a long-time PH'er) and recently a student in a 'blue-light trained' profession too, I would like to think that, whilst I am by no means perfect, I understand and respect our roads in a vaguely professional way, try to use them considerately and with understanding, and attempt to accommodate and engage with everyone.
My post is directed at you HGV chaps.
You form one of the 'backbones' of our transport network, delivering all the stuff that we are all grateful to be able to have easy access to, and take for granted, in a modern world.
Plus, your level of training is something that I recognise and respect - I only wish that car drivers were forced to have a similar level of training and appraisal.
I've always given you guys plenty of space, have never tried to 'slip up the inside / outside' of your rigs at difficult junctions, have been extremely patient and devoid of any 'suicidal overtaking manoeveres' when caught behind you at 40mph on National single carriageways - and lastly, on motorways and dual carriageways when I am in my massive, obviously modified Jeep, trundling along at it's limit of about 50mph - have always courteously 'flashed' you back in front of me, when you've had to overtake. To which I receive a flash of lights back to say 'thanks'. All good so far.
However.
As a very poor medical student (and I do mean poor - you try living on a student loan!) I have to commute carefully to my University and back, on a motorway, for about 35 miles each way, each day. My car, bless it, is not being used to it's full capacity these days by any means - I just cannot afford the fuel bills to do so.
If I drive it normally, coupled with a bit of hooning - it returns an mpg of about high 20's, maybe scraping 30.
But if I drive it carefully, by cruising at around 50mph, and by leaving a big gap between me and the car in front in traffic so that I have a buffer and do not engage with the normal 'start / brake / stop' shenanigins on a crowded motorway, I am finding that I can now get mid 40's fuel consumption. For a poor student, this makes a MASSIVE difference to me.
Because of this, I now seem to be an HGV driver's 'public enemy number one!'
On numerous occasions now, doing 50 in lane one, I have had some downright uncourteous at best, and dangerous at worst, treatment from HGV drivers.
The scenario is always the same. I see an HGV looming in my rear-view mirror. Instead of the driver seeing my car and thinking to himself 'oh, that's going a bit slow - I'll indicate and move out to lane 2 in good time to be able to overtake safely without having to slow down' - they seem to not even register this, and carry on at 56 mph until the point at which they suddenly realise the speed I am travelling at, brake hard at the last minute, and then sit so close to the back of my car that all I can see in the rear view mirror is a huge grille.
Then, after maybe a few minutes of this tailgating bullying, they either pull into lane two with a kind of drastic / swerving / annoyed action to get past (often conducted so close to me that I am surprised that the front corner of some of the trucks hasn't actually impacted with the rear corner of my car) and then overtake, with a similar 'swerving' attitude pulling back in as to often make me brake to avoid colliding with their rear corner...
Or worse, they start actually flashing high-beams at me, and on some occasions blasting a horn!
I don't see how I am any more of an obstruction than another van or HGV that they would normally come up behind in lane one, going more slowly than them? Why am I being singled out and treated so flippantly and dangerously, just because I am in a car?
It's not like I am doing high 50's mph as to make an overtake difficult and an Elephant race. I make sure I keep to 50mph on my speedo as to make an overtake for any HGV a fairly quick and easy affair.
It's starting to get on my tits a bit, and worse, beginning to challenge and erode my usual long-time respect for HGV drivers as professional road-users.
Can anyone comment as to this at all? IS there anything I could be doing to accommodate lorries better to avoid obviously inducing such annoyance and rage in the drivers?
Cheers. And peace
But due to my choice of driving style, it's really coming to a head for me lately, and so I thought I might ask the pros themselves on this forum, for their comments and ideas.
Ok - having been a road user both on bikes and in cars and vans for over 25 years now (plus a long-time PH'er) and recently a student in a 'blue-light trained' profession too, I would like to think that, whilst I am by no means perfect, I understand and respect our roads in a vaguely professional way, try to use them considerately and with understanding, and attempt to accommodate and engage with everyone.
My post is directed at you HGV chaps.
You form one of the 'backbones' of our transport network, delivering all the stuff that we are all grateful to be able to have easy access to, and take for granted, in a modern world.
Plus, your level of training is something that I recognise and respect - I only wish that car drivers were forced to have a similar level of training and appraisal.
I've always given you guys plenty of space, have never tried to 'slip up the inside / outside' of your rigs at difficult junctions, have been extremely patient and devoid of any 'suicidal overtaking manoeveres' when caught behind you at 40mph on National single carriageways - and lastly, on motorways and dual carriageways when I am in my massive, obviously modified Jeep, trundling along at it's limit of about 50mph - have always courteously 'flashed' you back in front of me, when you've had to overtake. To which I receive a flash of lights back to say 'thanks'. All good so far.
However.
As a very poor medical student (and I do mean poor - you try living on a student loan!) I have to commute carefully to my University and back, on a motorway, for about 35 miles each way, each day. My car, bless it, is not being used to it's full capacity these days by any means - I just cannot afford the fuel bills to do so.
If I drive it normally, coupled with a bit of hooning - it returns an mpg of about high 20's, maybe scraping 30.
But if I drive it carefully, by cruising at around 50mph, and by leaving a big gap between me and the car in front in traffic so that I have a buffer and do not engage with the normal 'start / brake / stop' shenanigins on a crowded motorway, I am finding that I can now get mid 40's fuel consumption. For a poor student, this makes a MASSIVE difference to me.
Because of this, I now seem to be an HGV driver's 'public enemy number one!'
On numerous occasions now, doing 50 in lane one, I have had some downright uncourteous at best, and dangerous at worst, treatment from HGV drivers.
The scenario is always the same. I see an HGV looming in my rear-view mirror. Instead of the driver seeing my car and thinking to himself 'oh, that's going a bit slow - I'll indicate and move out to lane 2 in good time to be able to overtake safely without having to slow down' - they seem to not even register this, and carry on at 56 mph until the point at which they suddenly realise the speed I am travelling at, brake hard at the last minute, and then sit so close to the back of my car that all I can see in the rear view mirror is a huge grille.
Then, after maybe a few minutes of this tailgating bullying, they either pull into lane two with a kind of drastic / swerving / annoyed action to get past (often conducted so close to me that I am surprised that the front corner of some of the trucks hasn't actually impacted with the rear corner of my car) and then overtake, with a similar 'swerving' attitude pulling back in as to often make me brake to avoid colliding with their rear corner...
Or worse, they start actually flashing high-beams at me, and on some occasions blasting a horn!
I don't see how I am any more of an obstruction than another van or HGV that they would normally come up behind in lane one, going more slowly than them? Why am I being singled out and treated so flippantly and dangerously, just because I am in a car?
It's not like I am doing high 50's mph as to make an overtake difficult and an Elephant race. I make sure I keep to 50mph on my speedo as to make an overtake for any HGV a fairly quick and easy affair.
It's starting to get on my tits a bit, and worse, beginning to challenge and erode my usual long-time respect for HGV drivers as professional road-users.
Can anyone comment as to this at all? IS there anything I could be doing to accommodate lorries better to avoid obviously inducing such annoyance and rage in the drivers?
Cheers. And peace
Hark said:
Current Fleet
Porsche 996 C4 cab
???
How skint can you be that 5-10mpg makes that much difference? Really no need to sit at 50mph tbh
Lol, oops - not updated for a few years that! Yep, Porsche was lovely when I was in a well-paid job, now sadly gone and as a student I am in a 13-year old Skoda Octavia.Porsche 996 C4 cab
???
How skint can you be that 5-10mpg makes that much difference? Really no need to sit at 50mph tbh
So yeah, just to re-iterate...I am now skint as said. Current student circumstances = living at home with Mum, surviving on a student loan / grant of £8k pa.
Good post, and I'm afraid to say, quite an accurate one.
Changing lanes to overtake is the most hazardous manoeuvre undertaken on the motorway, and most truckers resent having to do it any more than is necessary, especially as they may have to gauge the best moment to do it at busy times. You have every right to drive economically, but despite the cost of fuel I see precious few people doing the same. So your car presents a hazard that should not exist in the minds of most truckers, because by rights you could easily be moving along a lot quicker.
A heavy truck may slow to 40-45 on an uphill stretch, and be overtaken by you; when the road levels out he'll be back up to 56, and he'll have to think about passing you all over again.
Only yesterday (in my truck, doing a steady 50) I was a victim of similar bullying by the driver of a certain Scottish haulier renowned for this kind of behaviour (Y & D anybody?). I flashed him back in, but he ignored me & then proceeded to occupy the outside lane of the M8 for two or three miles to catch up with and elephant race somebody else.
Nobody's immune: if I do 50 in my wagon, I'll be harassed occasionally by other truckers, as will you in your car. As another poster suggested, 60mph might use a bit more fuel, but it'll keep you out of trouble.
Changing lanes to overtake is the most hazardous manoeuvre undertaken on the motorway, and most truckers resent having to do it any more than is necessary, especially as they may have to gauge the best moment to do it at busy times. You have every right to drive economically, but despite the cost of fuel I see precious few people doing the same. So your car presents a hazard that should not exist in the minds of most truckers, because by rights you could easily be moving along a lot quicker.
A heavy truck may slow to 40-45 on an uphill stretch, and be overtaken by you; when the road levels out he'll be back up to 56, and he'll have to think about passing you all over again.
Only yesterday (in my truck, doing a steady 50) I was a victim of similar bullying by the driver of a certain Scottish haulier renowned for this kind of behaviour (Y & D anybody?). I flashed him back in, but he ignored me & then proceeded to occupy the outside lane of the M8 for two or three miles to catch up with and elephant race somebody else.
Nobody's immune: if I do 50 in my wagon, I'll be harassed occasionally by other truckers, as will you in your car. As another poster suggested, 60mph might use a bit more fuel, but it'll keep you out of trouble.
Edited by Plastic chicken on Saturday 23 November 01:22
GALLARDOGUY said:
I don't endorse tailgating, but 50mph is too slow for a dual carriageway. You need to go a bit faster otherwise you are basically a rolling roadblock.
Yes and 50 on a car speedo is probably about 47 mph ! There should be a minimum speedFor cars on the motorway in fair conditions 55 would seem fair ?and a minimum limiter set speed of 85 KPH for trucks By law !!
The actions of those who are coming up close behind and then making a show of being angry with you are not professional but the job of driving lorries is like death by a thousand cuts already, you tootling along a motorway at a highly annoying 47.8 mph is not going to win you any friends.
Speed up a bit, you are being a minor cock.
Sell the jeep and buy a 2002 VW Golf Diesel, they do loads to the gallon at a sensible speed, I know because I have one and I am seeing around 47 mpg on my commute. Get the right tool for the job if you want to play the mpg game and stop making everybody else use more fuel to get past you.
Speed up a bit, you are being a minor cock.
Sell the jeep and buy a 2002 VW Golf Diesel, they do loads to the gallon at a sensible speed, I know because I have one and I am seeing around 47 mpg on my commute. Get the right tool for the job if you want to play the mpg game and stop making everybody else use more fuel to get past you.
GALLARDOGUY said:
I don't endorse tailgating, but 50mph is too slow for a dual carriageway. You need to go a bit faster otherwise you are basically a rolling roadblock.
There are an increasing number of Retailers who are now limiting trucks to 50 MPH, Sainsbury's for one.They spend Millions of pounds a year on diesel, so even a 5% increase in consumption is worth big bucks.
I think all supermarket trucks are limited to 50 mph .
They even have a sticker on the back saying so.
As for the OP doing 50 mph ( 0r 47 GPS) why should'nt he ?
70 mph is a maximum ! Not a target !If he want's to save fuel why should he not do so .
Fortunately I have not had to go onto a motorway for a couple of week's but when I was on them (M20/M26/M25) every day 2/300 miles a day it was rarely a small vehicle causing any hold up by going slowly (MLM's excepted).
My personal opinion is that despite what the supermarket's say , their lorries cause more pollution/fuel consumption and congestion by being limited to a lower speed and forcing every other lorry to overtake !
They even have a sticker on the back saying so.
As for the OP doing 50 mph ( 0r 47 GPS) why should'nt he ?
70 mph is a maximum ! Not a target !If he want's to save fuel why should he not do so .
Fortunately I have not had to go onto a motorway for a couple of week's but when I was on them (M20/M26/M25) every day 2/300 miles a day it was rarely a small vehicle causing any hold up by going slowly (MLM's excepted).
My personal opinion is that despite what the supermarket's say , their lorries cause more pollution/fuel consumption and congestion by being limited to a lower speed and forcing every other lorry to overtake !
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
I've posted about this before, as comments in other threads.
But due to my choice of driving style, it's really coming to a head for me lately, and so I thought I might ask the pros themselves on this forum, for their comments and ideas.
Ok - having been a road user both on bikes and in cars and vans for over 25 years now (plus a long-time PH'er) and recently a student in a 'blue-light trained' profession too, I would like to think that, whilst I am by no means perfect, I understand and respect our roads in a vaguely professional way, try to use them considerately and with understanding, and attempt to accommodate and engage with everyone.
My post is directed at you HGV chaps.
You form one of the 'backbones' of our transport network, delivering all the stuff that we are all grateful to be able to have easy access to, and take for granted, in a modern world.
Plus, your level of training is something that I recognise and respect - I only wish that car drivers were forced to have a similar level of training and appraisal.
I've always given you guys plenty of space, have never tried to 'slip up the inside / outside' of your rigs at difficult junctions, have been extremely patient and devoid of any 'suicidal overtaking manoeveres' when caught behind you at 40mph on National single carriageways - and lastly, on motorways and dual carriageways when I am in my massive, obviously modified Jeep, trundling along at it's limit of about 50mph - have always courteously 'flashed' you back in front of me, when you've had to overtake. To which I receive a flash of lights back to say 'thanks'. All good so far.
However.
As a very poor medical student (and I do mean poor - you try living on a student loan!) I have to commute carefully to my University and back, on a motorway, for about 35 miles each way, each day. My car, bless it, is not being used to it's full capacity these days by any means - I just cannot afford the fuel bills to do so.
If I drive it normally, coupled with a bit of hooning - it returns an mpg of about high 20's, maybe scraping 30.
But if I drive it carefully, by cruising at around 50mph, and by leaving a big gap between me and the car in front in traffic so that I have a buffer and do not engage with the normal 'start / brake / stop' shenanigins on a crowded motorway, I am finding that I can now get mid 40's fuel consumption. For a poor student, this makes a MASSIVE difference to me.
Because of this, I now seem to be an HGV driver's 'public enemy number one!'
On numerous occasions now, doing 50 in lane one, I have had some downright uncourteous at best, and dangerous at worst, treatment from HGV drivers.
The scenario is always the same. I see an HGV looming in my rear-view mirror. Instead of the driver seeing my car and thinking to himself 'oh, that's going a bit slow - I'll indicate and move out to lane 2 in good time to be able to overtake safely without having to slow down' - they seem to not even register this, and carry on at 56 mph until the point at which they suddenly realise the speed I am travelling at, brake hard at the last minute, and then sit so close to the back of my car that all I can see in the rear view mirror is a huge grille.
Then, after maybe a few minutes of this tailgating bullying, they either pull into lane two with a kind of drastic / swerving / annoyed action to get past (often conducted so close to me that I am surprised that the front corner of some of the trucks hasn't actually impacted with the rear corner of my car) and then overtake, with a similar 'swerving' attitude pulling back in as to often make me brake to avoid colliding with their rear corner...
Or worse, they start actually flashing high-beams at me, and on some occasions blasting a horn!
I don't see how I am any more of an obstruction than another van or HGV that they would normally come up behind in lane one, going more slowly than them? Why am I being singled out and treated so flippantly and dangerously, just because I am in a car?
It's not like I am doing high 50's mph as to make an overtake difficult and an Elephant race. I make sure I keep to 50mph on my speedo as to make an overtake for any HGV a fairly quick and easy affair.
It's starting to get on my tits a bit, and worse, beginning to challenge and erode my usual long-time respect for HGV drivers as professional road-users.
Can anyone comment as to this at all? IS there anything I could be doing to accommodate lorries better to avoid obviously inducing such annoyance and rage in the drivers?
Cheers. And peace
The truckers are just trying to get you to up your speed by just a handful of mph to save them from having to go into L2 and thus having two lanes doing no more than (probably) 54mph. (I say this because very few trucks indeed actually do 56mph. The majority run a t 54mph).But due to my choice of driving style, it's really coming to a head for me lately, and so I thought I might ask the pros themselves on this forum, for their comments and ideas.
Ok - having been a road user both on bikes and in cars and vans for over 25 years now (plus a long-time PH'er) and recently a student in a 'blue-light trained' profession too, I would like to think that, whilst I am by no means perfect, I understand and respect our roads in a vaguely professional way, try to use them considerately and with understanding, and attempt to accommodate and engage with everyone.
My post is directed at you HGV chaps.
You form one of the 'backbones' of our transport network, delivering all the stuff that we are all grateful to be able to have easy access to, and take for granted, in a modern world.
Plus, your level of training is something that I recognise and respect - I only wish that car drivers were forced to have a similar level of training and appraisal.
I've always given you guys plenty of space, have never tried to 'slip up the inside / outside' of your rigs at difficult junctions, have been extremely patient and devoid of any 'suicidal overtaking manoeveres' when caught behind you at 40mph on National single carriageways - and lastly, on motorways and dual carriageways when I am in my massive, obviously modified Jeep, trundling along at it's limit of about 50mph - have always courteously 'flashed' you back in front of me, when you've had to overtake. To which I receive a flash of lights back to say 'thanks'. All good so far.
However.
As a very poor medical student (and I do mean poor - you try living on a student loan!) I have to commute carefully to my University and back, on a motorway, for about 35 miles each way, each day. My car, bless it, is not being used to it's full capacity these days by any means - I just cannot afford the fuel bills to do so.
If I drive it normally, coupled with a bit of hooning - it returns an mpg of about high 20's, maybe scraping 30.
But if I drive it carefully, by cruising at around 50mph, and by leaving a big gap between me and the car in front in traffic so that I have a buffer and do not engage with the normal 'start / brake / stop' shenanigins on a crowded motorway, I am finding that I can now get mid 40's fuel consumption. For a poor student, this makes a MASSIVE difference to me.
Because of this, I now seem to be an HGV driver's 'public enemy number one!'
On numerous occasions now, doing 50 in lane one, I have had some downright uncourteous at best, and dangerous at worst, treatment from HGV drivers.
The scenario is always the same. I see an HGV looming in my rear-view mirror. Instead of the driver seeing my car and thinking to himself 'oh, that's going a bit slow - I'll indicate and move out to lane 2 in good time to be able to overtake safely without having to slow down' - they seem to not even register this, and carry on at 56 mph until the point at which they suddenly realise the speed I am travelling at, brake hard at the last minute, and then sit so close to the back of my car that all I can see in the rear view mirror is a huge grille.
Then, after maybe a few minutes of this tailgating bullying, they either pull into lane two with a kind of drastic / swerving / annoyed action to get past (often conducted so close to me that I am surprised that the front corner of some of the trucks hasn't actually impacted with the rear corner of my car) and then overtake, with a similar 'swerving' attitude pulling back in as to often make me brake to avoid colliding with their rear corner...
Or worse, they start actually flashing high-beams at me, and on some occasions blasting a horn!
I don't see how I am any more of an obstruction than another van or HGV that they would normally come up behind in lane one, going more slowly than them? Why am I being singled out and treated so flippantly and dangerously, just because I am in a car?
It's not like I am doing high 50's mph as to make an overtake difficult and an Elephant race. I make sure I keep to 50mph on my speedo as to make an overtake for any HGV a fairly quick and easy affair.
It's starting to get on my tits a bit, and worse, beginning to challenge and erode my usual long-time respect for HGV drivers as professional road-users.
Can anyone comment as to this at all? IS there anything I could be doing to accommodate lorries better to avoid obviously inducing such annoyance and rage in the drivers?
Cheers. And peace
What you won't be aware of is the sheer number of people who will speed match the truck when it's in l2 - seriously, its one of the most common things that happens to them.
I would suggest either travel at a genuine 56-58 mph and then you'll be passing them by, or under 50 and then they'll pass you by comfortably.
As we can see from countless threads on PH, people complain bitterly about trucks in l2 despite the fact that they do all they can to stay out of L2 as much as possible. In this case I would suggest they are trying to make life uncomfortable for you as you are making life less comfortable for countless other m'way users.
if Ray wants to plod around at 50mph all day i havn't got a problem with that.
i'd comfortably catch and pass him at a nice steady 56mph. no real dramas.
it winds me up when you get the cars that hover at between 50 and 60 mph, these are a real pain in the arse.
sadly as much as i hate to admit it, there are plenty of knobs out there driving wagons these days.
i'd comfortably catch and pass him at a nice steady 56mph. no real dramas.
it winds me up when you get the cars that hover at between 50 and 60 mph, these are a real pain in the arse.
sadly as much as i hate to admit it, there are plenty of knobs out there driving wagons these days.
Bit un-necessary quoting the full post of such a long post really.
Even more un-necessary is the flaming of a road user wanting to do a set speed with a good reason IMHO. The OP was polite and respectful.
Cars with spacesavers on are (should be) limited to 50, as are cars towing caravans and trailers. So how is it an inappropriate speed?
I do see how it would be annoying to lorry drivers as for them time is money and lane changing is not so easy in vehicles that size but the OP does keep a steady speed and flash them back in to reduce the inconvenience so how about we cut them some slack? It's not like he is doing it just to be awkward after all even if that is how it seems to the lorry drivers.
Perhaps a 50 sign in the window in the "running in" type of vein might help?
Even more un-necessary is the flaming of a road user wanting to do a set speed with a good reason IMHO. The OP was polite and respectful.
Cars with spacesavers on are (should be) limited to 50, as are cars towing caravans and trailers. So how is it an inappropriate speed?
I do see how it would be annoying to lorry drivers as for them time is money and lane changing is not so easy in vehicles that size but the OP does keep a steady speed and flash them back in to reduce the inconvenience so how about we cut them some slack? It's not like he is doing it just to be awkward after all even if that is how it seems to the lorry drivers.
Perhaps a 50 sign in the window in the "running in" type of vein might help?
JagXJR said:
Cars with spacesavers on are (should be) limited to 50, as are cars towing caravans and trailers. So how is it an inappropriate speed?
It has been 60 for cars towing trailers/ caravans on dual carriageways and motorways since 1986!(For the true pedants, by reason of The Motor Vehicles (Variation of Speed Limits) Regulations 1986.)
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