I respect your job, but come on guys, must you be so un-pro?

[All that jazz]

Piersman2 said:

I spend 2-4 hours a day going up and down the M4.

It's busy, there's a lot of traffic trying to do the same. You can see that one of the main causes of congestion is where lorries are pulling into lane two and the traffic that was flowing passed them smoothly is suddenly disrupted and the 65mph'ers from lane two all move over to lane three to get round the lorry.

One thing that always amazes me is when I realise that the lorry has pulled out, not because they're overtaking another lorry, but some dick in a car going even slower than a lorry can.

I don't really care what the reason is, bad driver, economy run, just being a wker. It's just inconsiderate and unnecessary. Lorries take a long time to slow, and then accelerate again, They're not as easy to pull out and overtake as a car, they need a much larger gap to pull over into, this introdues stress into their lives. They spend all day on the roads with fixed deliveries etc... so I'm not suprised that occasionally you get some feedback from them. I've no doubt every single one of them must be thinking what an irritating prick you're being.

As a trucker myself, this ^.

9 times out of 10 when faced with a car in front doing 50, the moment you pull out to overtake and get your bumper level with theirs they put their toe down and match your speed. I've noticed over the past few years since fuel prices went silly that about 25% of the cars on motorways now travel slower than trucks and as the chap above says it is extremely annoying and causes a huge increase in congestion and greatly reduces the average motorway speeds for the reasons he states. If fuel costs are that important to you that you can't afford to travel at more than 50mph then I'm afraid it's time you accepted that running your own vehicle is beyond your means and it's time to hitch a lift/get a bus/cycle/walk.

[johnS2000]

heebeegeetee said:

As for lorries at 52mph, it should be able to remain in L1 unimpeded throughout it's entire m'way journey.

Why should it only be lorries that are "unimpeded" for their entire m'way journey ?

With m'way congestion as it is these day's it is far more relaxing to cruise in L1 at lorry speed than it is to drive @ 70 ish moving from lane to lane in the often impossible attempt to " make progress ".

I think the trick is to recognise the condition's that permit " making progress " ( and do not get me wrong , I can make as much progress as any body else ) and when to relax and "go with the flow" .

Many year's experience has shown me that driving at 70+mph will rarely get you anywhere any quicker than cruising at 50 mph especially on the southern section of the M25 .

If lorries want to bounce off the speed limiter @ 50/56/60 mph so be it however there is no need to indulge in the bully boy tactic's so often seen and remarked on .

I am content that when I'm sitting on the M25 in stop start traffic caused by a lorry overtaking a supermarket lorry, probably on the incline towards the Redhill junction , causing tailbacks to J5 and beyond, that every other lorry is also caught up in it !

[shovelheadrob]

I have seen the kind of bullying mentioned by the OP, not directed at myself I hasten to add, strangely I have never seen it directed at the two most common types of slow moving vehicle on our roads, mobile cranes (40mph) & tractors (28mph), when encountering these hazards the HGV driver manages to move into L2 well in advance of the need to intimidate.

[Jon999]

On the M6 last week only just got round to uploading (ignore the date it is wrong). Reminded me of this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5f__zPlhbE&hd=...

[heebeegeetee]

johnS2000 said:

1. If lorries want to bounce off the speed limiter @ 50/56/60 mph so be it however there is no need to indulge in the bully boy tactic's so often seen and remarked on .

2.I am content that when I'm sitting on the M25 in stop start traffic caused by a lorry overtaking a supermarket lorry, probably on the incline towards the Redhill junction , causing tailbacks to J5 and beyond, that every other lorry is also caught up in it !

1. Bouncing off the speed limiter? The trucks purr along at 1100rpm, up hill, down dale. The limiter works in the same was as CC does - where does the 'bounce' come into it?

2. i've just spent a while looking at films like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sYR4-nqeI0 (best from 9mins on). The situation with hgvs was the same then as now. There are as many hgvs on the mways at night, when the roads flow freely, as by day.

Common sense is telling me that it's the 20 million+ cars on the roads is whats causing the congestion.
2

[blueg33]

heebeegeetee said:

blueg33 said:

There are all sorts of reasons why a car may be doing 50mph on the mway, and it may not necessarily be through choice.

I'm struggling to think of any, never mind many. There are not all sorts of reasons why a car may be doing 50mph on an nsl m'way.

Slow driving is bad driving. I agree with PM on the thread above, and for me it could be made illegal for a car to be overtaken by an hgv. HGVs should not be put into L2 by cars.

It's selfish to slow everyone else down for your needs. If there is something wrong with your car or you don't want to travel at m'way speeds, then just stay off the m'ways and leave the m'ways for those who want to use m'ways for their intended purpose.

Slow traffic can use the other roads and not impede so many people.

So its selfish to drive at 50mph but not seklfish for trucks to do elephant racing and hold other people up (see another thread)

Of course there are plenty of reasons for driving at 50mph. In my time driving I have had to do this for the following reasons:

1. Space saver spare installed
2. Had been rear ended on the Mway damaging the boot and bumper, and was advised by the police to drive under 50mph until I had left the motorway
3. Variable speed limit set to 50mph but still being agressively tailgated by trucks and a few oter morons
4. Trailer jockey wheel clamp broken and it was dragging. I was on a stretch of the M50 with no hard shoulder, choice was stop in L1 or continue 3 miles to next exit
5. Daughter was seriously ill after being born 3 months premature and I was following the ambulance from Cheltenham to Bristol, the ambulance did not do more than 50mph due to her condition. Even with the blue lights on, you would be amazed at how many trucks and other morons tailgated before moving into L2 and some then cut back in way to close. I still recall how angry that made me, a sudden stop by the ambulance could have been fatal.


Those are just my experiences, multiply that across the driving population and there will be someone with a valid reason for driving at 50mph or lower pretty much every day.

Edited by blueg33 on Sunday 24th November 20:37

[jimbop1]

johnS2000 said:

Why should it only be lorries that are "unimpeded" for their entire m'way journey ?

With m'way congestion as it is these day's it is far more relaxing to cruise in L1 at lorry speed than it is to drive @ 70 ish moving from lane to lane in the often impossible attempt to " make progress ".

I think the trick is to recognise the condition's that permit " making progress " ( and do not get me wrong , I can make as much progress as any body else ) and when to relax and "go with the flow" .

Many year's experience has shown me that driving at 70+mph will rarely get you anywhere any quicker than cruising at 50 mph especially on the southern section of the M25 .

If lorries want to bounce off the speed limiter @ 50/56/60 mph so be it however there is no need to indulge in the bully boy tactic's so often seen and remarked on .

I am content that when I'm sitting on the M25 in stop start traffic caused by a lorry overtaking a supermarket lorry, probably on the incline towards the Redhill junction , causing tailbacks to J5 and beyond, that every other lorry is also caught up in it !

Because they are limited and cannot slow or speed up like a car can... Even the most under powered car is more capable at stopping and speeding up than a lorry. There is absolutely no reason for a lorry on a clear road to be held up by a car... st bust!

[chilistrucker]

Jon999 said:

On the M6 last week only just got round to uploading (ignore the date it is wrong). Reminded me of this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5f__zPlhbE&hd=...

piss poor driving, and its dheads like that, that give us a bad name.

[deltashad]

chilistrucker said:

Jon999 said:

On the M6 last week only just got round to uploading (ignore the date it is wrong). Reminded me of this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5f__zPlhbE&hd=...

piss poor driving, and its dheads like that, that give us a bad name.

Looking at that video, we don't know the full story. Maybe the lorry in L1 had previously undertaken the C5. The C5 could have been bad MLM. No excuse but slow MLM's must be a nightmare for Articulated lorry drivers.

[chilistrucker]

deltashad said:

Looking at that video, we don't know the full story. Maybe the lorry in L1 had previously undertaken the C5. The C5 could have been bad MLM. No excuse but slow MLM's must be a nightmare for Articulated lorry drivers.

i know what your saying, and yes mlm are a nightmare for us, especially if as i'm guessing in this case, said mlm has imposed themself as the roadworks 50mph speed limit police.
but nothing can excuse the wagon driver in that clip.
only my opinion though.

funny how we only get remembered for the bad though.

[heebeegeetee]

blueg33 said:

So its selfish to drive at 50mph but not seklfish for trucks to do elephant racing and hold other people up (see another thread)

Of course there are plenty of reasons for driving at 50mph. In my time driving I have had to do this for the following reasons:

1. Space saver spare installed
2. Had been rear ended on the Mway damaging the boot and bumper, and was advised by the police to drive under 50mph until I had left the motorway
3. Variable speed limit set to 50mph but still being agressively tailgated by trucks and a few oter morons
4. Trailer jockey wheel clamp broken and it was dragging. I was on a stretch of the M50 with no hard shoulder
5. Daughter was seriously ill after being born 3 months premature and I was following the ambulance which could not do more than 50mph due to her condition.


Those are just y experiences, multiply that across the driving population and there will be someone with a valid reason for driving at 50mph or lower pretty much every day.

A nice muddying of the waters, in thorough PH fashion.

We are discussing the subject of people choosing to drive below the speed limit, or choosing to drive slowly. That is what the OP was about, and he's asking why he keeps getting tailgated. But as I said, if there's something wrong with your vehicle then you should leave the m'way at the first opportunity.

It is extremely rare to encounter cars following ambulances or dragging their damaged cars off the m;way. It is extremely common to encounter cars choosing to drive below the speed limit in the UK, it is extremely common to encounter cars not on cc varying their speeds. This is waht Im talking about.

Choosing to drive slower than the speed limit is selfish imo, and let's face it, if you're going to piss people off you might have to expect people to piss you off in return. That's life.

Myself personally I can't really help the OP with his situation. I'm afraid I remain suspicious about people professing to have too much difficulty in getting from a-b in a car. I'm afraid I have to consider that he must be doing something wrong and pissing people off.

I will confess, when I returned to trunking a few years back, the first time I encountered a car driving approx 2mph slower than I was, on the m'way, for no apparent reason, I allowed myself to get close to him and gave a flash of my lights and a toot of the horn just to make him aware of my presence; I just wanted him to increase his speed by 2-3 mph. I couldn't see what harm that would do him, it would prevent me from having to go into L2 for a considerable period of time, and if he just increased his speed by some 2 mph then he would leave me behind and we'd never see each other again.

Of course, he didn't do that, and I had to go into L2 for no good reason, and I never bothered doing such a thing again.

At least on that occasion he didn't do what most slow car drivers do, which is to speed match the hgv for miles, or to speed up and slow down and repeat the process for possibly over a hundred miles.

There is no good reason for a car driver to get tangled up with trucks on a regular basis. Imo only bad driving does that.

[Piersman2]

blueg33 said:

So its selfish to drive at 50mph but not seklfish for trucks to do elephant racing and hold other people up (see another thread)

Of course there are plenty of reasons for driving at 50mph. In my time driving I have had to do this for the following reasons:

1. Space saver spare installed
2. Had been rear ended on the Mway damaging the boot and bumper, and was advised by the police to drive under 50mph until I had left the motorway
3. Variable speed limit set to 50mph but still being agressively tailgated by trucks and a few oter morons
4. Trailer jockey wheel clamp broken and it was dragging. I was on a stretch of the M50 with no hard shoulder, choice was stop in L1 or continue 3 miles to next exit
5. Daughter was seriously ill after being born 3 months premature and I was following the ambulance from Cheltenham to Bristol, the ambulance did not do more than 50mph due to her condition. Even with the blue lights on, you would be amazed at how many trucks and other morons tailgated before moving into L2 and some then cut back in way to close. I still recall how angry that made me, a sudden stop by the ambulance could have been fatal.


Those are just my experiences, multiply that across the driving population and there will be someone with a valid reason for driving at 50mph or lower pretty much every day.

Edited by blueg33 on Sunday 24th November 20:37

Yes, but these are all 'exceptional' circumstance. It would appear you seem to attract them!

It's those that have made a dubious lifestyle decision to save themselves a few pennies by slowing down to 50mph without appreciating the impact it has on everyone else around them. Do they not see what's going on around them? Do they not realise that lorries are having to move out and cause rolling road blocks?

I suggest they do, and they don't care; because it's their right to drive as slow as they like, they're not breaking any laws are they? It's the I'm right, holier than you, fk everyone else attitude.

Selfish pricks in my book.

[mrmr96]

powerstroke said:

GALLARDOGUY said:

I don't endorse tailgating, but 50mph is too slow for a dual carriageway. You need to go a bit faster otherwise you are basically a rolling roadblock.

Yes and 50 on a car speedo is probably about 47 mph ! There should be a minimum speed
For cars on the motorway in fair conditions 55 would seem fair ?and a minimum limiter set speed of 85 KPH for trucks By law !!

I think anyone who has a vehicle capable of legally not impeding lorries, but who chooses to do so anyway, would be better off not being on the road IMO.

There's no need to drive around at 50 and force the big rigs to overtake you. It's a pain for them, and it's a pain for all the other traffic held up by them whilst they do it.

You're being a pain in the arse to a lot of people. Stop it please.

Thanks.

[Jon999]

deltashad said:

chilistrucker said:

Jon999 said:

On the M6 last week only just got round to uploading (ignore the date it is wrong). Reminded me of this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5f__zPlhbE&hd=...

piss poor driving, and its dheads like that, that give us a bad name.

Looking at that video, we don't know the full story. Maybe the lorry in L1 had previously undertaken the C5. The C5 could have been bad MLM. No excuse but slow MLM's must be a nightmare for Articulated lorry drivers.

No rear camera unfortunately but the C5 overtook me at a decent pace and the lorry came right up behind him practically touching the rear of his car. They had not met before this clip no MLM going on. C5 slowed as lorry was close hence I went from lane 1 to lane 3. Think C5 brake tested the lorry a little bit too. They were practically touching, wide angle lens messes with your perception of distance a bit.

[Geekman]

Jon999 said:

On the M6 last week only just got round to uploading (ignore the date it is wrong). Reminded me of this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5f__zPlhbE&hd=...

The citroen driver is just as much of a dhead as the lorry. I don't even drive a HGV, and people who drive like that in average speed zones drive me insane.

[chilistrucker]

Geekman said:

The citroen driver is just as much of a dhead as the lorry. I don't even drive a HGV, and people who drive like that in average speed zones drive me insane.

if he did brake test the lorry, then he certainly is a dhead. the lorry is wrong aswell, but a dangerous game to play.

i'm with you though, i do hate the self appointed speed limit police.
and whoever suggested earlier, about limiting lorries to a max of 85kmh, please just stop that, or expect to see many more elephant racing type threads in the future.

[All that jazz]

Jon999 said:

On the M6 last week only just got round to uploading (ignore the date it is wrong). Reminded me of this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5f__zPlhbE&hd=...

The only problem I'm seeing is a Citroen wker hogging lane 2 making 0 progress on the truck in lane 1 and has plenty of room to pull into lane 1 and let the artic past instead of deciding to self-appoint themselves as the road police. See this stuff all the time in the average speed areas and they only have themselves to blame when they get other vehicles up their arse.

[blueg33]

Piersman2 said:

Yes, but these are all 'exceptional' circumstance. It would appear you seem to attract them!

It's those that have made a dubious lifestyle decision to save themselves a few pennies by slowing down to 50mph without appreciating the impact it has on everyone else around them. Do they not see what's going on around them? Do they not realise that lorries are having to move out and cause rolling road blocks?

I suggest they do, and they don't care; because it's their right to drive as slow as they like, they're not breaking any laws are they? It's the I'm right, holier than you, fk everyone else attitude.

Selfish pricks in my book.

I was responding to a point where a statement was made that a poster couldn't THINK OF ANY reasons to be travelling at 50mph on the motorway, so I though I would help him out.

Not sure waht is exceptional about having to use a space saver or variable speed limit set at 50mph! The thing is, that the more you do in life the more exceptional circumstances you become involved in. Stay at home and not much happens.

[heebeegeetee]

blueg33 said:

I was responding to a point where a statement was made that a poster couldn't THINK OF ANY reasons to be travelling at 50mph on the motorway, so I though I would help him out.

Not sure waht is exceptional about having to use a space saver or variable speed limit set at 50mph! The thing is, that the more you do in life the more exceptional circumstances you become involved in. Stay at home and not much happens.

It's your choice to drive a damaged car or a car that doesn't have four tyres fit for m'way speeds, but I don't see that as a reason to do so, I certainly wouldn't do it. A 50 mph limit is one reason, though not many obey speed limits, so no, I'm still struggling to see 'all sorts' of reasons why I would drive a car at 50mph on an m'way, inconveniencing thousands of others out of choice.

This being PH though, a person who can recount many reasons from personal experience can always be found.

Jeez, you sound a bit of a nightmare though. Do you consider yourself unlucky? I mean, I've been an hgv driver (did much of Europe in a former life) and a car enthusiast for 30 years, so staying at home is mot something I've done much of.

Never driven a car that safe at 50 but dangerous at 51, either.

[Geekman]

chilistrucker said:

if he did brake test the lorry, then he certainly is a dhead. the lorry is wrong aswell, but a dangerous game to play.

i'm with you though, i do hate the self appointed speed limit police.
and whoever suggested earlier, about limiting lorries to a max of 85kmh, please just stop that, or expect to see many more elephant racing type threads in the future.

He definitely did brake test him, as well as putting the window down and gesturing at the lorry. The whole situation could easily have been avoided if he'd simply moved over to let the lorry pass, but instead he's displaying the typical British "no-one is allowed to go faster than me" bks.

Consider my piss well and truly boiled