Poor / Dangerous driving - evidence on dash cam
Discussion
Geekman said:
There's a clear difference between a simple mistake and dangerous driving. If I had footage where a truck pulled out and caused me to brake I wouldn't bother, but if I had footage where a truck tried to force me off the road then yes, I'd send it to their bosses and I'm sure they'd take it seriously if it genuinely was dangerous.
Lawbags said:
You have clearly never been stuck behind miles of traffic stuck as trucks overtake each other up Reigate Hill on the M25 in rush hour!
I used to regularly do that route, and there is the outside lane for cars, and I was usually to be found in it, never got badly held up there.Chrisgr31 said:
Lawbags said:
You have clearly never been stuck behind miles of traffic stuck as trucks overtake each other up Reigate Hill on the M25 in rush hour!
I used to regularly do that route, and there is the outside lane for cars, and I was usually to be found in it, never got badly held up there.often see a numpty in a car dawdling up there at 50 in lanes 2 and 3 though.
chilistrucker said:
Regular for me currently aswell. Agree with chris, normally flows well up reigate hill. Heavy lorries in lanes 1 and 2 mainly, the odd quicker 1 in lane 3, and the cars all have lane 4 for them selves.
often see a numpty in a car dawdling up there at 50 in lanes 2 and 3 though.
TBF, reigate hill's problem is the cars in the outside lane doing 60, not the trucks in the inside lanes doing 40-56. The mouthbreathers mange to simultaneously pull out to overtake a truck and then immediately slow down to the truck speed. often see a numpty in a car dawdling up there at 50 in lanes 2 and 3 though.
Did that route a lot last year. Now hate the m25!
hman said:
Ha ha, well theres never one around when you need one, but always one there when you dont).
Its not about policing the roads, per se - I just see A LOT of really inconsiderate driving from trucks, have a dashcam, and the facility to show the standard of driving to whoever is interested.
I dont go looking for it - it happens everyday, and everyday its captured on the camera.
I've worked for 5 or 6 (non haulage) companies with signwritten commercial vehicles in my time and all of them took driving complaints about driving very seriously - it was their name which was being affected, the driver would be brought in, asked about the events and it was noted on their internal use only record.
After a couple of complaints about the aformentioned driver they used to pull up the record and say "sorry chum your standard of driving is giving us a bad name, we have asked you to improve, you haven't so we have to let you go". We lost plenty of drivers in this way, but the complaints went down which is what the company wanted.
Interesting to note that there are some companies that would apparently disregard this sort of footage and not take action, irresponsible really - considering the corporate manslaughter act which would apply should that fact come to light after a fatality...
Your experience is completely different from mine.Its not about policing the roads, per se - I just see A LOT of really inconsiderate driving from trucks, have a dashcam, and the facility to show the standard of driving to whoever is interested.
I dont go looking for it - it happens everyday, and everyday its captured on the camera.
I've worked for 5 or 6 (non haulage) companies with signwritten commercial vehicles in my time and all of them took driving complaints about driving very seriously - it was their name which was being affected, the driver would be brought in, asked about the events and it was noted on their internal use only record.
After a couple of complaints about the aformentioned driver they used to pull up the record and say "sorry chum your standard of driving is giving us a bad name, we have asked you to improve, you haven't so we have to let you go". We lost plenty of drivers in this way, but the complaints went down which is what the company wanted.
Interesting to note that there are some companies that would apparently disregard this sort of footage and not take action, irresponsible really - considering the corporate manslaughter act which would apply should that fact come to light after a fatality...
As a car driver, I have virtually no trouble whatsoever with HGVs. Maybe it's because I used to be an HGV driver myself, I don't know, but my interaction with HGVs when in my car is that they're something I barely notice and just seem to pass them by. I certainly don't see a 'LOT' of inconsiderate driving from them (again, perhaps it's because I have been on both sides of the fence and thus have an understanding of what's going on).
Also, as an HGV driver of some 25 years or more, and thus working for 'signwritten' companies for all that time, not one single driver was ever pulled up for 'questioning' over his driving.
So as you see, my experience is/ has been completely different to yours.
One opinion that I gained quite early on in my time, and one that only ever grew stronger, is that no good car driver has trouble with trucks, not to the point of talking or posting about it.
Another opinion I have is that those who feel the need for dash cams are almost always poor drivers themselves, they can't get from a-b without hassle and fuss, and feel that this is the fault of everyone else and not themselves.
Hman, I would very, very strongly say to you that if you took extra driving tuition (I'm serious here) instead of buying a dash cam, then your need for a dash cam would disappear. The comments that you have posted on this thread are strongly suggesting to me that you are one of those millions of drivers who do not drive well and therefore have all sorts of problems, or have little understanding of how the roads/traffic works and thus have problems as a result.
I feel I can promise you that if you upped your driving skills then those problems, and thus your perception that you need a camera, would disappear.
kapiteinlangzaam said:
I wonder if the RM pulled up this particular mouth breather for his display of manliness:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThWA4QjV6VE
For genuine dangerous driving in a situation that put me (and mine) in danger id probably stick the footage on the companies facebook page and similar.
Elephant racing = annoying but a fact of life. They should implement o/taking bans for trucks on trunk roads and motorways during peak hours like most places in Europe and solve the problem in one fell swoop.
That footage is pretty bloody scary.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThWA4QjV6VE
For genuine dangerous driving in a situation that put me (and mine) in danger id probably stick the footage on the companies facebook page and similar.
Elephant racing = annoying but a fact of life. They should implement o/taking bans for trucks on trunk roads and motorways during peak hours like most places in Europe and solve the problem in one fell swoop.
I think using social media is the way forward if you're bothered, I'm not though but I think I'd make an exception for Postman Pat Bateman there.
That royal mail driver needs locking up, can't believe that video only has 700 views.
I once phoned the sign on a driving instructors car after he pulled straight out infront of me causing me to take evasive action (only one driver in the car so not a learner) and got fobbed off, nothing happened and driver denied it all. I then put it on youtube and its the first result when anyone googles the firm. I then got a grovelling apology from the driver but its not good enough so I kept it up.
I once phoned the sign on a driving instructors car after he pulled straight out infront of me causing me to take evasive action (only one driver in the car so not a learner) and got fobbed off, nothing happened and driver denied it all. I then put it on youtube and its the first result when anyone googles the firm. I then got a grovelling apology from the driver but its not good enough so I kept it up.
I am having a problem with , not only this thread , but all thread's that contain reference's to truck's and the problem's they cause or do not cause , due too so called elephant racing and such like , and the fact that some people do not have any problem's whatsoever with truck's .
I used to use the Redhill section of the M25 on a regular basis in the rush hour (6 am ish) and would crawl from junction 5 too junction 7 (M23) in stop start traffic , all lane's .
If I am in stop/start traffic ,in all !! lane's how can I be unaffected by this ??
It has been stated that 'the good driver just passes them by barely noticing them' !!
How ? if all the traffic is stationary due too elephant racing 6 mile's ahead up Redhill and the traffic , past Clacket's has stopped !! as it do's every single week day do some people remain unaffected ???
A couple of people have stated that they have no problem with this stretch of the M25 and it flow's well !!! Not at 6/7 am it don't!! it stop's !! how is this not a problem ?
If by stating you have 'no trouble with truck driver's ' mean's that you sit in the traffic they cause content with your lot in life blissfully indifferent to the chaos around you then you have my admiration , however , if you are trying to imply that your unimpeded progress on today's congested road's is due to your vastly superior driving skill's then I must take exception to your comment's .
Comment's to the OP about taking advanced tuition are fair enough as long as every body realize's that all those people who have not taken any advanced training since taking a basic learner test cannot consider their own driving to be any better than average at best !
I put myself into this category ( average ) due to the fact that I have passed the IAM and ROSPA test's as well as being a driving instructer in a previous life .
Also bear in mind that advanced training can make an individual even more fussy about what go's on around them.
I also have a dashcam!
I used to use the Redhill section of the M25 on a regular basis in the rush hour (6 am ish) and would crawl from junction 5 too junction 7 (M23) in stop start traffic , all lane's .
If I am in stop/start traffic ,in all !! lane's how can I be unaffected by this ??
It has been stated that 'the good driver just passes them by barely noticing them' !!
How ? if all the traffic is stationary due too elephant racing 6 mile's ahead up Redhill and the traffic , past Clacket's has stopped !! as it do's every single week day do some people remain unaffected ???
A couple of people have stated that they have no problem with this stretch of the M25 and it flow's well !!! Not at 6/7 am it don't!! it stop's !! how is this not a problem ?
If by stating you have 'no trouble with truck driver's ' mean's that you sit in the traffic they cause content with your lot in life blissfully indifferent to the chaos around you then you have my admiration , however , if you are trying to imply that your unimpeded progress on today's congested road's is due to your vastly superior driving skill's then I must take exception to your comment's .
Comment's to the OP about taking advanced tuition are fair enough as long as every body realize's that all those people who have not taken any advanced training since taking a basic learner test cannot consider their own driving to be any better than average at best !
I put myself into this category ( average ) due to the fact that I have passed the IAM and ROSPA test's as well as being a driving instructer in a previous life .
Also bear in mind that advanced training can make an individual even more fussy about what go's on around them.
I also have a dashcam!
Edited by johnS2000 on Tuesday 17th December 20:26
Makes me chuckle when all the mouth breathers on here scream for overtaking bans and have us all confined to lane 1 like naughty little truckers. But wait... M42 overtaking ban right? Yes, that's the one, where nothing over 7.5t is allowed to use lane 2 heading north at Tamworth in peak periods. But at the restricted times guess which lane has stationary/crawling traffic in it and guess which lane all the cars want to be in?
Here's a little clue: it isn't lane 2.
Here's a little clue: it isn't lane 2.
Well usually if I am coming up Reigate Hill I am joining the M25 either at the M23 or Godstone and I have to say that I usually have a relatively clear run to the base of the hill and up it. Yes if the traffic is very heavy it will be a bit stop start but its like that on the whole motorway and not just Reigate Hill.
I am not a truck driver but I find the biggest issues are the car drivers who just don't move out of the outside lanes and drive below the speed limit.
Oh and the driving on the RM driver in the video is not ideal, would be interesting to know how close the overtaking lorry was when he pulled back in in front of the RM truck and what had happened before the segment that was shown.
I am not a truck driver but I find the biggest issues are the car drivers who just don't move out of the outside lanes and drive below the speed limit.
Oh and the driving on the RM driver in the video is not ideal, would be interesting to know how close the overtaking lorry was when he pulled back in in front of the RM truck and what had happened before the segment that was shown.
kapiteinlangzaam said:
I do 95% of my driving on Continental motorways.
The main motorway I travel is the A2 in NL, where from between 6am to 7pm (and sometimes later if busy) trucks are 'confined' to L1 for almost the entire length.
Put simply, it works.
The motorways here (like in the UK) are running at full capacity during peak hours - you get the occasional E. European trucker who either doesn't understand (or doesn't care) and will go for an o/take and the immediate difference it makes to the flow of traffic in L2 and L3 is astonishing.
As an aside, everything still gets to the shops on time, the country hasnt ground to a halt and the trucking industry still exists (which I believe is the main argument trotted out against it).
I appreciate its not widely used in the UK, just a token trial here and there, but its commonplace right throughout BeNeLux and Germany and it makes a huge difference.
It does work for the most part ON THE CONTINENT, but (with the exception of Belgium) the majority of the car drivers over there have a brain and know how to use it (eg. correct lane discipline, not sitting in L2/3 doing 60 forever and a day) plus there is a lot more respect for trucks/ers. Compare that to the car driver attitudes over here where 99% of them HAVE to get in front of the truck NO MATTER WHAT and fThe main motorway I travel is the A2 in NL, where from between 6am to 7pm (and sometimes later if busy) trucks are 'confined' to L1 for almost the entire length.
Put simply, it works.
The motorways here (like in the UK) are running at full capacity during peak hours - you get the occasional E. European trucker who either doesn't understand (or doesn't care) and will go for an o/take and the immediate difference it makes to the flow of traffic in L2 and L3 is astonishing.
As an aside, everything still gets to the shops on time, the country hasnt ground to a halt and the trucking industry still exists (which I believe is the main argument trotted out against it).
I appreciate its not widely used in the UK, just a token trial here and there, but its commonplace right throughout BeNeLux and Germany and it makes a huge difference.
k the consequences and that's why such schemes like truck overtaking bans make absolutely zero difference to the traffic flow and travelling times because by and large it's not us truckers that are the cause of the congestion. You should be directing your rage at your car driving colleagues that are being rolling road blocks in L2/3 at well under the speed limit, just because they can.johnS2000 said:
1. sit in the traffic they cause content with your lot in life blissfully indifferent to the chaos around you
2. Not at 6/7 am it don't!! it stop's !! how is this not a problem ?
3. I also have a dashcam!
1. My *god*, what a spectacularly idiotic statement!! 'Sit in the traffic they cause'. My god, those words are going to stay in my mind for a very long time.2. Not at 6/7 am it don't!! it stop's !! how is this not a problem ?
3. I also have a dashcam!
Look, are you completely unaware that the road you refer to runs clear and free all night long, with exactly the same amount of trucks on it - as they do all over the UK - and then from about 5.30am millions and millions of cars start to pour onto the roads, filling the roads up until they come to a halt - and you think the trucks cause this? 'The traffic they cause'? My god!.
2. Because there are millions of YOU (and me, in my car) pouring onto the roads at the same time, grinding them to a halt, twice a day, every single day - and incredibly, you think that it is all somebody else's fault?! My god!!!
3. Thankyou. You have just backed up my opinion of those who feel they need them by 100%! ie:- they're absolutely f
king clueless!!So the reason you have no problem with truck;s is you only use the road's at night ?
Of course , come 6 am or so all the car's come out to play and contribute to the problem ! I do not think anybody would disagree with this !Excuse me if I state the obvious that too much traffic of all type's is the main cause , made worse by ignorant( poorly trained) and selfish driving by driver's of all type's of vehicle's .
Having read numerous thread's /post's concerning poor driving in the form of tailgating/mlm's/inability to indicate properly/elephant racing etc and so on by numerous people over a considerable period of time I would have thought that the OP's original query would have received a positive response from the majority of PH'er's who take a modicum of pride in their driving ability and would like too see a reduction in congestion by getting some of these bad driver's off the road by recording and then reporting them!
Of course there are some who do not want their action's recorded .
Having a dashcam do's not make somebody clueless . It's for peace of mind , like warrenty's ,house insurance and such like and a bit of a toy if i'm honest.
I do not pretend to be as knowledgeable as some people (and there are some very clever people on here)but I'm not so clueless as to suggest that my driving skill's are so refined that I can navigate every where including motorway's without encountering a problem of any sort including problem's caused by truck's.
Of course , come 6 am or so all the car's come out to play and contribute to the problem ! I do not think anybody would disagree with this !Excuse me if I state the obvious that too much traffic of all type's is the main cause , made worse by ignorant( poorly trained) and selfish driving by driver's of all type's of vehicle's .
Having read numerous thread's /post's concerning poor driving in the form of tailgating/mlm's/inability to indicate properly/elephant racing etc and so on by numerous people over a considerable period of time I would have thought that the OP's original query would have received a positive response from the majority of PH'er's who take a modicum of pride in their driving ability and would like too see a reduction in congestion by getting some of these bad driver's off the road by recording and then reporting them!
Of course there are some who do not want their action's recorded .
Having a dashcam do's not make somebody clueless . It's for peace of mind , like warrenty's ,house insurance and such like and a bit of a toy if i'm honest.
I do not pretend to be as knowledgeable as some people (and there are some very clever people on here)but I'm not so clueless as to suggest that my driving skill's are so refined that I can navigate every where including motorway's without encountering a problem of any sort including problem's caused by truck's.
Edited by johnS2000 on Tuesday 17th December 22:52
johnS2000 said:
1. So the reason you have no problem with truck;s is you only use the road's at night ?
2. Of course , come 6 am or so all the car's come out to play and contribute to the problem !
3. Having read numerous thread's /post's concerning poor driving in the form of tailgating/mlm's/inability to indicate properly/elephant racing etc and so on by numerous people over a considerable period of time I would have thought that the OP's original query would have received a positive response from the majority of PH'er's who take a modicum of pride in their driving ability and would like too see a reduction in congestion by getting some of these bad driver's off the road by recording and then reporting them!
1. I think you have trouble with understanding. The reason why, as a car driver, I have virtually no problem with trucks is because I must be, I suppose, a reasonably competent driver.2. Of course , come 6 am or so all the car's come out to play and contribute to the problem !
3. Having read numerous thread's /post's concerning poor driving in the form of tailgating/mlm's/inability to indicate properly/elephant racing etc and so on by numerous people over a considerable period of time I would have thought that the OP's original query would have received a positive response from the majority of PH'er's who take a modicum of pride in their driving ability and would like too see a reduction in congestion by getting some of these bad driver's off the road by recording and then reporting them!
2. Contribute? Some 20 million + cars taking to the roads in three hours isn't a contribution, it *is* the problem.
3. I fundamentally disagree, and imo your post and that of the OP's indicates to me that it is you that is the problem. You come across as very naieve and inexperienced. Sorry - but that's what I am picking up from yours and the OP's statements and I say that's why there is little support.
Firstly, your recording and reporting will achieve precisely nothing and you are shockingly naieve imo if you think otherwise. Secondly, getting a few drivers off the road (which you won't) will make no difference whatsoever to the tens of millions of us out there clogging the roads up. We are not stuck in traffic, we are the traffic.
I stand strongly by what I feel: that no good driver will have any trouble at all worth mentioning with trucks or with any other road user; the incompetent drivers will have lots of trouble with everybody - so much so that they feel the need to film how bad everyone else is while saying nothing about their own mistakes.
I could have a camera on my dash too, but honestly - the footage would be boring.
[quote=heebeegeetee]
I stand strongly by what I feel: that no good driver will have any trouble at all worth mentioning with trucks or with any other road user; the incompetent drivers will have lots of trouble with everybody - so much so that they feel the need to film how bad everyone else is while saying nothing about their own mistakes.
/quote]
It is truly amazing how many people don't anticipate what is going to happen. Its usually quite apparent when a lorry is going to want to overtake. It also amazes me how many people fail to be polite these days on the road, some seem to thing its my right of way so I am coming through, promptly bringing the place to deadlock as further up the road its not their right of was and the traffic cant move forward etc.
The reality is we all have to share the road, if we all anticipated, all drove with consideration for others the roads would be a far nicer place to be.
I stand strongly by what I feel: that no good driver will have any trouble at all worth mentioning with trucks or with any other road user; the incompetent drivers will have lots of trouble with everybody - so much so that they feel the need to film how bad everyone else is while saying nothing about their own mistakes.
/quote]
It is truly amazing how many people don't anticipate what is going to happen. Its usually quite apparent when a lorry is going to want to overtake. It also amazes me how many people fail to be polite these days on the road, some seem to thing its my right of way so I am coming through, promptly bringing the place to deadlock as further up the road its not their right of was and the traffic cant move forward etc.
The reality is we all have to share the road, if we all anticipated, all drove with consideration for others the roads would be a far nicer place to be.
Your 'stating of the obvious' is getting a bit tedious ,as is your total defence of a small group of road user's who should know better .
I understand perfectly that all road user's contribute to congestion not just car's but your beloved truck's as well .
You do not have a problem cos your a competent driver !
Please explain this ?
The motorway stop's but this cause's you no problem!
How ?
Do you drive a hover vehicle and float above it ?
Or do you not see a traffic jam as a problem ?
Recording and reporting bad driving will actually achieve nothing ! I agree .
Nothing will ever change if nobody do's anything !
We will still be reading the same old thread's , by mostly different people in 20 yr's time because most people cannot be bothered .
Bad driving is every where waiting to be recorded.
If every body anticipated and was considerate then ,yes , there would be fewer problem's . Unfortunately the vast majority are not .They are not interested in driving only in getting from a to b with the least amount of effort.Driving is a necessary evil to them ,to be carried out with no regard to other's .
If I was to buy another motorbike what would I do with my VFR800??
I understand perfectly that all road user's contribute to congestion not just car's but your beloved truck's as well .
You do not have a problem cos your a competent driver !
Please explain this ?
The motorway stop's but this cause's you no problem!
How ?
Do you drive a hover vehicle and float above it ?
Or do you not see a traffic jam as a problem ?
Recording and reporting bad driving will actually achieve nothing ! I agree .
Nothing will ever change if nobody do's anything !
We will still be reading the same old thread's , by mostly different people in 20 yr's time because most people cannot be bothered .
Bad driving is every where waiting to be recorded.
If every body anticipated and was considerate then ,yes , there would be fewer problem's . Unfortunately the vast majority are not .They are not interested in driving only in getting from a to b with the least amount of effort.Driving is a necessary evil to them ,to be carried out with no regard to other's .
If I was to buy another motorbike what would I do with my VFR800??
Edited by johnS2000 on Wednesday 18th December 08:41
johnS2000 said:
If I was to buy another motorbike what would I do with my VFR800??
te]
? I dunno? Ride it & stop bte]
hing about traffic jams? Keep it in a big shed along with loads of others? ( its what I do) Trucks create congestion. They have bad drivers. Same with vans. Same with cars. Same with motorbikes.( apart from the congestion 
)Honestly, you live in the most heavily populated bit of Britain and complain there's too many people on the road? I see bad driving from all sorts of vehicles every day, I could get a dash cam and record it all. But I have a life.
So I just get on with my day and let others get on with theirs.
I have only had one complaint against me that was actioned in any way( kinda driving related, but probably the assault bit was why.. ) Most places are the same so why bother?
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