Who's in the wrong ?...

[surveyor]

powerstroke said:

Humper said:

No matter what the truck did or didn't do, the car failed to give way to a vehicle on the right at a giveway. I approach with the hope of getting out not the expectation.
It amazes me the people who want to blame the truck driver, totally ignoring the car ddriver's total lack of judgement and moronic attempt to force its way in rather than give way.
If the trucker could see it happenint then so could the tit in the car.

this 100% and The idea put about by some that you can drive for everyone else is plain stupid ,the rules in the Highway Code are clear
This footage should be used in an ad campaign show morons this is what happens when you don't concentrate on your driving
Hopefully the civic driver was done for driving without due care for causing a avoidable accident
And the rise of vehicles fitted with cameras the guilty won't be able to lie there way out of blame for these sort of incidents..

Edited by powerstroke on Saturday 21st December 07:49

I still think the lorry driver was also driving without due care and consideration.

If you don't drive taking into account other drivers into account then you really are not a very good driver.

[powerstroke]

surveyor said:

I still think the lorry driver was also driving without due care and consideration.

If you don't drive taking into account other drivers into account then you really are not a very good driver.

Ok fine !! So if someone runs into your car it will be your fault ???Hmmm!

[surveyor]

powerstroke said:

Ok fine !! So if someone runs into your car it will be your fault ???Hmmm!

I've said repeatedly that the car was mostly at fault for driving into the lorry. I've also said repeatedly that the lorry driver has some responsibility for not seeing a collision coming and avoiding it.

Some drivers are better than others at seeing these things develop, This is why some insurance companies load premiums for non-fault claims. Just because the driver is not at fault does not mean that they could not have avoided it.

An example. Dual carrriegway. Traffic Lights red. Lane 2 queue shorter, where I would normally have gone. But car at the back had reversing lights on. May be in reverse, maybe an electrical fault. I chose lane 1. Next driver, a young woman in a newish golf went straight up behind reverse lights. Now it would not be her fault if she was reversed into, but she had every opportunity to avoid the collision by choosing lane 1, or even just leaving some reaction space.

I'd expect a lorry driver to be driving to a higher standard, and assuming that this car did not just 'decloak' it must have been visible at some point.

[Steffan]

gus607 said:

It's amazing how some drivers think they have the right of way when joining a main carriagway. Not just motorways but normal A roads.

Local councils go to great expense painting Give Way lines on roads.

Sometimes I really do despair at the ignorance & stupidity of some drivers.

Absolutely spot on. Entirely the Honda driver's fault. Entirely avoidable by running over the white lines or actually looking at the gap presented. Does show why so many vehicles are now camered up. Perfect replay.

[italianjob1275]

If you can't judge speed and distance you shouldn't be driving.

A truck does 50-56mph. Either speed up and get in front or slow down and get behind

Simples

This happens all the time. Especially now we'r. Getting into "only use the motorway once a year to see aunty Flo" season...

[Flanders.]

surveyor said:

powerstroke said:

Humper said:

No matter what the truck did or didn't do, the car failed to give way to a vehicle on the right at a giveway. I approach with the hope of getting out not the expectation.
It amazes me the people who want to blame the truck driver, totally ignoring the car ddriver's total lack of judgement and moronic attempt to force its way in rather than give way.
If the trucker could see it happenint then so could the tit in the car.

this 100% and The idea put about by some that you can drive for everyone else is plain stupid ,the rules in the Highway Code are clear
This footage should be used in an ad campaign show morons this is what happens when you don't concentrate on your driving
Hopefully the civic driver was done for driving without due care for causing a avoidable accident
And the rise of vehicles fitted with cameras the guilty won't be able to lie there way out of blame for these sort of incidents..

Edited by powerstroke on Saturday 21st December 07:49

I still think the lorry driver was also driving without due care and consideration.

If you don't drive taking into account other drivers into account then you really are not a very good driver.

How do you know there wasn't another Truck alongside him sturggling to overtake, thus blocking the truck in lane 1 from moving over?

[surveyor]

Flanders. said:

surveyor said:

powerstroke said:

Humper said:

No matter what the truck did or didn't do, the car failed to give way to a vehicle on the right at a giveway. I approach with the hope of getting out not the expectation.
It amazes me the people who want to blame the truck driver, totally ignoring the car ddriver's total lack of judgement and moronic attempt to force its way in rather than give way.
If the trucker could see it happenint then so could the tit in the car.

this 100% and The idea put about by some that you can drive for everyone else is plain stupid ,the rules in the Highway Code are clear
This footage should be used in an ad campaign show morons this is what happens when you don't concentrate on your driving
Hopefully the civic driver was done for driving without due care for causing a avoidable accident
And the rise of vehicles fitted with cameras the guilty won't be able to lie there way out of blame for these sort of incidents..

Edited by powerstroke on Saturday 21st December 07:49

I still think the lorry driver was also driving without due care and consideration.

If you don't drive taking into account other drivers into account then you really are not a very good driver.

How do you know there wasn't another Truck alongside him sturggling to overtake, thus blocking the truck in lane 1 from moving over?

So adjust speed by 5 mph for a few seconds. It's not brain science.

[Flanders.]

surveyor said:

So adjust speed by 5 mph for a few seconds. It's not brain science.

I disagree, if there was a truck hanging around the rear of his trailer, the truck in lane 1 wouldn't have known if it was safe to pull out into lane 2. So the truck in lane 1 would have had to back right off to move over.

Also in my exprience its best to keep a constant speed when in that situation. There was a post in SP&L were a PH'er backed off to allow a car to merge infront of them and it nearly ended in disaster as the car on the slip road also backed off.

In my view the truck driver is in no way at fault. He is drivng a very heavy, very large and very slow truck. He will want to change lanes as few times as possible because on our busy motorways its a risky thing to do. Heck I drive a LWB Sprinter for work and even changing lanes in that can be a tricky job.

[johnS2000]

I don't drive a truck so cannot say for sure but , come on Guy's , the truck driver could not see the civic .

If your driving a car ,in the left hand lane ,approaching a slip road , if you take the angle's involved between the slip road and the motorway , if the civic is nearly but not quite level with you it would be in your blind spot .

Imagine the truck having the same problem but worse because as the civic get's level he also get's closer goes below the level of the door so in effect goes from one blind spot into another

Now ,on the other hand I know that the average truck driver must not ,under any circumstance's ,slow down ,but if any actual blame is directed at the truck then the driver must have done it on purpose and I can't see a driver doing that .

[Steffan]

johnS2000 said:

I don't drive a truck so cannot say for sure but , come on Guy's , the truck driver could not see the civic .

If your driving a car ,in the left hand lane ,approaching a slip road , if you take the angle's involved between the slip road and the motorway , if the civic is nearly but not quite level with you it would be in your blind spot .

Imagine the truck having the same problem but worse because as the civic get's level he also get's closer goes below the level of the door so in effect goes from one blind spot into another

Now ,on the other hand I know that the average truck driver must not ,under any circumstance's ,slow down ,but if any actual blame is directed at the truck then the driver must have done it on purpose and I can't see a driver doing that .

I am not a defender of truck drivers in general. But in this case I doubt the truck could risk an emergency manoevre or braking which on a busy motorway could cause jacknifing and really serious mayhem. The Honda diver was joining the Motorway and clearly at fault. Heavy trucks cannot swerve or risk such actions. the consequences could be very serious.

[Web13]

I can drive class 1 lorries, I only do for recreational reasons so wouldn't be classed as a professional driver.

In my view the truck driver would have little chance of seeing the civic. Even if he was aware that the civic was down there, he couldn't have known the driver bottled it at the last moment but still tried to join. The rule of thumb is the driver can't see 3 meters around the front of the tractor unit.

Also,

He wasn't that close to the truck in front, he is slowly gaining and the PH community would be the first to moan if all truckies pulled out extra early to begin the elephant race. Most try to get pretty close to reduce distribution on traffic. Not that they get any thanks :P

You can see the civic guy is incompetent, forgetting his poor planning. he could have made the gap if he accelerated but didn't. He could have braked but didn't. He could have crossed solid line to avoid an accident but didn't, his left was 100% clear. He did the only thing that was going to cause an accident, lift and turn into the truck.

[GC8]

There is no point trying to explain the bleeding obvious to the terminally blinkered.

[leggly]

It's the camera angle that's cofusing the issue here. If I was sitting with my nose pressed up against the window I'd be able to see that Civic but..... We are around three feet back from the windscreen with a high dashboard as well. Many times I have cars in front of me coming down a slip road only to brake at the last moment. It's as if they're not really awake until they reach give way markers. As a truck driver, I think most of us avoid more assholes in cars and prevent more traffic jams than we cause.

[chilistrucker]

Web13 said:

I can drive class 1 lorries, I only do for recreational reasons so wouldn't be classed as a professional driver.

In my view the truck driver would have little chance of seeing the civic. Even if he was aware that the civic was down there, he couldn't have known the driver bottled it at the last moment but still tried to join. The rule of thumb is the driver can't see 3 meters around the front of the tractor unit.

Also,

He wasn't that close to the truck in front, he is slowly gaining and the PH community would be the first to moan if all truckies pulled out extra early to begin the elephant race. Most try to get pretty close to reduce distribution on traffic. Not that they get any thanks :P

You can see the civic guy is incompetent, forgetting his poor planning. he could have made the gap if he vaccelerated but didn't. He could have braked but didn't. He could have crossed solid line to avoid an accident but didn't, his left was 100% clear. He did the only thing that was going to cause an accident, lift and turn into the truck.

spot on

[barker22]

I can't believe there is any suggestion of the truck driver having any blame, its bonkers.
The car is entirely to blame, as the report suggested.
As for the wagon not leaving enough room....really? there was plenty of room to slot a big van in there if you had to(granted not ideally but better than crashing)

Looking at the video I don't even know what the civic driver was even thinking, A glance in the mirror would have shown the rear of the wagon and a blind spot check would have shown a massive wagon right alongside!

Anyone who think the car driver shouldn't be appointed 100% blame should hand their licence in.
The vision available from that slip road just by turning your head is very generous. You have ample time to adjust your speed and join.