Rusty Mercedes Sprinters
Discussion
Johnnytheboy said:
So you prefer the Sprinter then.
So it seems.Personally my first van was a Sprinter - it was ok.
However for my needs, a VW T4 was far superior.
I've recently "upgraded" to a much later 115 Vito but I'm not gelling with it.
Driven a few Mk7 Transits and I think they drive better than both but they don't fit with my needs (RWD has a very high floor and it's hard to find MWB and low roof FWD with decent power) - VW T5 here I come.
carnut1974 said:
I started my gardening business with a 2004 transit T280 85PS SWB.
It was sold to me with 6 months MOT.
However - before I used it, I stripped the front end off the van, front light panel, wings, bumper - the lot.
And I removed the complete cab interior - seating, dashboard, floor mats - all of it.
I found the front inner wings shot, with rot.
Both Side steps - no longer existed, but they are hidden by the plastic step covers - so one would never know unless you give a good digging from underneath.
So I welded the inner wings up.
Fitted new steps, new inner sills, new outer sills.
Put it for MOT 6 months later - more welding needed on the rear chassis.
Back Cross member welded.
Box section welded near spring hanger.
6 months after that - more welding needed!
I was welding that every 6 months trying to keep the rust gremlins at bay until October 2017 - the garage told me - its going to cost £700 to £1000 to weld some more on an outrigger on the driver side. Too many points of contact with box section, inner chassis, outer body to contend with.
So I threw the in the towel.
It already had suddenly become scabby all over in those 18 months to 2 years.
I have been a mechanic for 27 years - and Transits are absolute rust buckets.
Underneath they are the worst for rot against any other van.
So I did my research, on Renault, Merc, Nissan, Toyota, Iveco, VW, Vauxhall, Fiat, Citroen, Peugoet & Ford Transit - I decided on a Mercedes Sprinter 313 LWB.
Renaults are crap for Gearboxes, engines & Electrics.
As are Vauxhall and Nissan which are just re-badged Renaults, and some Fiats now also.
Toyota - now too small, plus rebadged Pugs.
Peugoet, Citroen, & Fiat - front wheel drive and all belt driven engines.
I don't want a belt driven engine with added extra service costs and down time.
The same goes for IVECO - which were a possibility, but they have a belt driven engine, they drive like a tractor, and from local garages - tell me the parts are expensive, and slow to arrive in comparison to Merc parts! And they all rust just the same.
VW - same body as a Merc Sprinter - but having worked at a VW dealer - the engines are over rated junk - and once again - belt driven. The engines are just far too unreliable.
Ford Transits, whilst anything upto 2006 was a good engine in my view - Chain driven, but once TDCI came in - unreliable.
Both Ford & Land Rover Defender use these engines, - both suffer from EGR failures, Turbo Failures, Oil pump chain failures on the 2.4, and the later 2.2 seem to be blowing EGR coolers internally - which then causes consumption of coolant and then boils the engine leaving it unrepairable. All suffer with Engine ECU reliability, and injector failures.
And to top it off - all these Transits rust like mad - the worst of it is - they can look pretty on top but the underneath can be like a Flintstone car!
The Mercedes Sprinter, from what I keep hearing is galvanised heavily underneath and severely coated since 2006MY builds.
However - I do see some still having some rust spots on the body top side.
I spoke to a number of garages - and they tell me whilst they may look untidy on top - they never rot like a transit does underneath.
Like for like, year for year - Merc beats a Transit underneath hands down.
I would prefer to see my rust coming on top - so I can see when it needs fixing - ie paint, rather than unknowingly have my flooring rot from underneath me - like a Transit.
Plus - the Merc engine is chain driven.
Every other Merc Sprinter advertised has 250,000 to 450,000 miles on it, which means they seem to have no problem covering the miles, where as every other Transit advertised - is either a blown engine or just had a replacement engine. They all leak oil once they get passed 100,000 miles. Common as muck for leaks. The engine was used in Jaguar X Types, Mondeos, Land Rover Defenders, - all leak oil from the front oil filter housing area.
The Merc is a far superior drive to the Transits.
So I opted for a 114,000 mile, 2013MY, Sprinter CD313 LWB.
Had a tow bar fitted so I could pull my trailer.
It drives smoother than any Transit I have driven (although I must admit I cant account for the MK8 Transit to be fair and honest).
I always found the Transit a very choppy ride - and I have driven all them since the MK2 Transit up to the MK7.
The Sprinter pulls loaded up with all tools inside, a ride on, ride on trailer, chipper, ladders strapped inside to the roof, and a full 10 x 5 foot trailer stacked 4ft high with hedge clippings. I find I am getting frustrated with cars slowing my progress.
The room in the cab is also far superior to the Transit.
More leg room to enter the cab both for the driver or the passengers.
Transits seem to slam the dash up close to you.
More storage space by miles in the Merc over the Transit, in the doors, under the seats and above the head. Transits waste that space under the seats by building cheap tubular frames. Merc give you two storage boxes under the seats. And the doors have additional storage under the mandatory door pockets.
For me its a Mercedes Sprinter - later ones should not be as bad as early Sprinters.
They will last better on the underside, but easier to track rust on the top side, and repair.
Either way - you will be repairing - because a Transit will have you spending on welding underneath every 12 months at MOT in a panic, but a Merc may show rust spots on top - which you can plan into your maintenance schedule.
Alternatively - lease a new vehicle and change it every 3 or 4 years - get any make you want - as it will have warranty, but you cant avoid down time from your business whilst you have a van in for mechanical or electrical repairs even under warranty.
That's my opinion. Its not necessarily correct, but its from my experiences and info researched by chatting to local people I trust.
I may be incorrect - and I will have a bucket of rust in 12 months - watch this space.
you speak the truth....buy a transit...learn to weldIt was sold to me with 6 months MOT.
However - before I used it, I stripped the front end off the van, front light panel, wings, bumper - the lot.
And I removed the complete cab interior - seating, dashboard, floor mats - all of it.
I found the front inner wings shot, with rot.
Both Side steps - no longer existed, but they are hidden by the plastic step covers - so one would never know unless you give a good digging from underneath.
So I welded the inner wings up.
Fitted new steps, new inner sills, new outer sills.
Put it for MOT 6 months later - more welding needed on the rear chassis.
Back Cross member welded.
Box section welded near spring hanger.
6 months after that - more welding needed!
I was welding that every 6 months trying to keep the rust gremlins at bay until October 2017 - the garage told me - its going to cost £700 to £1000 to weld some more on an outrigger on the driver side. Too many points of contact with box section, inner chassis, outer body to contend with.
So I threw the in the towel.
It already had suddenly become scabby all over in those 18 months to 2 years.
I have been a mechanic for 27 years - and Transits are absolute rust buckets.
Underneath they are the worst for rot against any other van.
So I did my research, on Renault, Merc, Nissan, Toyota, Iveco, VW, Vauxhall, Fiat, Citroen, Peugoet & Ford Transit - I decided on a Mercedes Sprinter 313 LWB.
Renaults are crap for Gearboxes, engines & Electrics.
As are Vauxhall and Nissan which are just re-badged Renaults, and some Fiats now also.
Toyota - now too small, plus rebadged Pugs.
Peugoet, Citroen, & Fiat - front wheel drive and all belt driven engines.
I don't want a belt driven engine with added extra service costs and down time.
The same goes for IVECO - which were a possibility, but they have a belt driven engine, they drive like a tractor, and from local garages - tell me the parts are expensive, and slow to arrive in comparison to Merc parts! And they all rust just the same.
VW - same body as a Merc Sprinter - but having worked at a VW dealer - the engines are over rated junk - and once again - belt driven. The engines are just far too unreliable.
Ford Transits, whilst anything upto 2006 was a good engine in my view - Chain driven, but once TDCI came in - unreliable.
Both Ford & Land Rover Defender use these engines, - both suffer from EGR failures, Turbo Failures, Oil pump chain failures on the 2.4, and the later 2.2 seem to be blowing EGR coolers internally - which then causes consumption of coolant and then boils the engine leaving it unrepairable. All suffer with Engine ECU reliability, and injector failures.
And to top it off - all these Transits rust like mad - the worst of it is - they can look pretty on top but the underneath can be like a Flintstone car!
The Mercedes Sprinter, from what I keep hearing is galvanised heavily underneath and severely coated since 2006MY builds.
However - I do see some still having some rust spots on the body top side.
I spoke to a number of garages - and they tell me whilst they may look untidy on top - they never rot like a transit does underneath.
Like for like, year for year - Merc beats a Transit underneath hands down.
I would prefer to see my rust coming on top - so I can see when it needs fixing - ie paint, rather than unknowingly have my flooring rot from underneath me - like a Transit.
Plus - the Merc engine is chain driven.
Every other Merc Sprinter advertised has 250,000 to 450,000 miles on it, which means they seem to have no problem covering the miles, where as every other Transit advertised - is either a blown engine or just had a replacement engine. They all leak oil once they get passed 100,000 miles. Common as muck for leaks. The engine was used in Jaguar X Types, Mondeos, Land Rover Defenders, - all leak oil from the front oil filter housing area.
The Merc is a far superior drive to the Transits.
So I opted for a 114,000 mile, 2013MY, Sprinter CD313 LWB.
Had a tow bar fitted so I could pull my trailer.
It drives smoother than any Transit I have driven (although I must admit I cant account for the MK8 Transit to be fair and honest).
I always found the Transit a very choppy ride - and I have driven all them since the MK2 Transit up to the MK7.
The Sprinter pulls loaded up with all tools inside, a ride on, ride on trailer, chipper, ladders strapped inside to the roof, and a full 10 x 5 foot trailer stacked 4ft high with hedge clippings. I find I am getting frustrated with cars slowing my progress.
The room in the cab is also far superior to the Transit.
More leg room to enter the cab both for the driver or the passengers.
Transits seem to slam the dash up close to you.
More storage space by miles in the Merc over the Transit, in the doors, under the seats and above the head. Transits waste that space under the seats by building cheap tubular frames. Merc give you two storage boxes under the seats. And the doors have additional storage under the mandatory door pockets.
For me its a Mercedes Sprinter - later ones should not be as bad as early Sprinters.
They will last better on the underside, but easier to track rust on the top side, and repair.
Either way - you will be repairing - because a Transit will have you spending on welding underneath every 12 months at MOT in a panic, but a Merc may show rust spots on top - which you can plan into your maintenance schedule.
Alternatively - lease a new vehicle and change it every 3 or 4 years - get any make you want - as it will have warranty, but you cant avoid down time from your business whilst you have a van in for mechanical or electrical repairs even under warranty.
That's my opinion. Its not necessarily correct, but its from my experiences and info researched by chatting to local people I trust.
I may be incorrect - and I will have a bucket of rust in 12 months - watch this space.
Bought a top of the range Sprinter in March 2015. Naturally, you are made to feel very special when parting with such a massive amount of cash; however the reality is slightly different. Within 5 years there was rust appearing. I knew they had a reputation for this previously but never expected it on a later model, took the risk as needed a decent auto gearbox and Mercedes were the obvious people to go to. Bearing in mind the absolutely shocking after sales service in addition to the rust I would never ever buy another Mercedes. Will take my chances with a MAN or Crafter next time. Not to mention the abysmal security on the van where they managed to have the rear door lock out with a screw driver in 10 seconds flat (fortunately I disturbed them).... funny isn't it, Mercedes can create a Formula One car but after 50 years plus of making vans haven't developed a screwdriver-proof lock. New Mercedes? Never again.
I bought a MAN TGE 3.180 in 2018, it broke down numerous times before catching fire. They replaced it with a brand new one in september 2019, which has had a couple of electrical problems, a poorly fitting door and now there is a bit of a rust bubble forming on the back door from the inside, there is no paint damage. Although they no longer share a platform with a sprinter they seem to be similar in build quality. Much better handling than a sprinter, but worse mpg and the 180ps model feels slower than a 163 sprinter. I think the official power and mpg numbers are "VW numbers"
is it an auto? whats the power/mpg/smoothness like? I tried a 2017 one but didnt like it, didnt get the proper experience though as it was mounted with a cherrypicker, plus i think my impression of the van was tainted by the cherrypicker developing a hydraulic fault when I was up in the basket.
OldGermanHeaps said:
is it an auto? whats the power/mpg/smoothness like? I tried a 2017 one but didnt like it, didnt get the proper experience though as it was mounted with a cherrypicker, plus i think my impression of the van was tainted by the cherrypicker developing a hydraulic fault when I was up in the basket.
Sorry for the late reply , yes auto think its an ZF box seemed best in ECO mode various engine choices the one I tried was a 2.3 160 but there is a 3 litre with 210 bhp .. economy seemed to be low to mid 30's LWB part loaded ... did some rural and a run on the motorway about 250 miles ...
As far as I am aware the only similarity between the Sprinter and the Crafter was the bodyshell . Most of the Crafters were belt driven as opposed to chain which is why you will never find a Crafter showing the stratospheric mileages of a Sprinter .
The first generation sprinter was a wonderful tool especially in 312 guise , with a floor mounted gear change it was absolutely rock solid . The second generation marked the first of the dashboard gear change , slightly less solid you could already see the corners being cut especially the dashboard and interior fittings . These were the CDI models which came with more electronics and safety features , on some of them the High Pressure Fuel Pump was prone to failure . The third Generation cut standards even further , the bodywork seemed tinnier and the weight that you could carry also dropped as it was a heavier van . the main issue with these was Injectors .Tthe next generation two of which I have just now were my personal favourites ,a really handsome van especially from the front and in 130,000 miles I haven't had an issue with either . I change the filters and oil every 5000 miles and I dont think you could buy a better van . Transits I think are utter rubbish for anyone doing motorway work and racking up high mileage , built in Turkey buying a Kebab would make more sense .
The first generation sprinter was a wonderful tool especially in 312 guise , with a floor mounted gear change it was absolutely rock solid . The second generation marked the first of the dashboard gear change , slightly less solid you could already see the corners being cut especially the dashboard and interior fittings . These were the CDI models which came with more electronics and safety features , on some of them the High Pressure Fuel Pump was prone to failure . The third Generation cut standards even further , the bodywork seemed tinnier and the weight that you could carry also dropped as it was a heavier van . the main issue with these was Injectors .Tthe next generation two of which I have just now were my personal favourites ,a really handsome van especially from the front and in 130,000 miles I haven't had an issue with either . I change the filters and oil every 5000 miles and I dont think you could buy a better van . Transits I think are utter rubbish for anyone doing motorway work and racking up high mileage , built in Turkey buying a Kebab would make more sense .
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