7.5 tonne trucks
Discussion
Good point on the warranties! It is something I've asked.
All have offered 3 year unlimited mileage warranties apart from DAF who have offered 1 year plus 3 year driveline.
Worth noting that Iveco only wanted to offer the same as DAF but when I told them everyone else had offered 3 years they changed their tune....
All have offered 3 year unlimited mileage warranties apart from DAF who have offered 1 year plus 3 year driveline.
Worth noting that Iveco only wanted to offer the same as DAF but when I told them everyone else had offered 3 years they changed their tune....
If you are tall or bulky the Isuzu will cripple you , also they throw up faults , lots of faults .
Not driven any of the other modern models with the auto boxes .
With all the ones you have been quoted for are they factory fitted bodies or are they dealer sourced and fitted . They can vary hugely in build quality and materials used especially load area flooring , quality of load restraints , are the curtains high load rates and cut resistant?
The quality of the fittings used on the body can make a huge difference to the drivers working day .
The poorer quality stuff will be failing within 3 years if they are subject to constant use .
Their was talk of some of the tuck under tail lifts being banned on H+S grounds because they were dangerous for the operators especially with pallets or equipment over 400kg .
Not driven any of the other modern models with the auto boxes .
With all the ones you have been quoted for are they factory fitted bodies or are they dealer sourced and fitted . They can vary hugely in build quality and materials used especially load area flooring , quality of load restraints , are the curtains high load rates and cut resistant?
The quality of the fittings used on the body can make a huge difference to the drivers working day .
The poorer quality stuff will be failing within 3 years if they are subject to constant use .
Their was talk of some of the tuck under tail lifts being banned on H+S grounds because they were dangerous for the operators especially with pallets or equipment over 400kg .
Rosscow said:
OK, have had prices for the following. Anyone with any knowledge please give your opinion!
MAN TGL. 4.9l 190hp engine. 4.5m wheelbase. £55,500 + VAT
DAF FA LF. 4.5l 184hp engine. 4.3m wheelbase. £59,950 + VAT
Fuso Canter. 3.0l 175hp engine. £51,600 + VAT
Iveco Eurocargo. 4.5ltr 160hp engine. 4.455m wheelbase. £50,210.00 + VAT
All of the above have a similar spec: auto gear box, air con, DVS kit comprising side scan, blind spot camera, rear camera, bluetooth, etc.
Body to have curtains both sides with internal removable shoring poles/loading rails (3 rails per side, with lok-tracks), v-groove side raves with pull up lashing points at 500mm centres, 1000kg tuck away tail lift, barn doors.
I've also had a price from Isuzu at £45,000 + VAT but that was for a standard body without removable poles/rails but with tuck away lift. 3.0l 150bhp engine.
The DAF is too much money. The Iveco is in the sweet spot, but I think I like the MAN. I'm not sure about the others with 3.0l engines.
Crikey, they all look expensive to me! MAN TGL. 4.9l 190hp engine. 4.5m wheelbase. £55,500 + VAT
DAF FA LF. 4.5l 184hp engine. 4.3m wheelbase. £59,950 + VAT
Fuso Canter. 3.0l 175hp engine. £51,600 + VAT
Iveco Eurocargo. 4.5ltr 160hp engine. 4.455m wheelbase. £50,210.00 + VAT
All of the above have a similar spec: auto gear box, air con, DVS kit comprising side scan, blind spot camera, rear camera, bluetooth, etc.
Body to have curtains both sides with internal removable shoring poles/loading rails (3 rails per side, with lok-tracks), v-groove side raves with pull up lashing points at 500mm centres, 1000kg tuck away tail lift, barn doors.
I've also had a price from Isuzu at £45,000 + VAT but that was for a standard body without removable poles/rails but with tuck away lift. 3.0l 150bhp engine.
The DAF is too much money. The Iveco is in the sweet spot, but I think I like the MAN. I'm not sure about the others with 3.0l engines.
I've been a fleet manager for 25+ years running LGV/LCV. The up front cost is important but it's the full life cost that's important including vehicle uptime which impacts productivity. Ask for finance quotes including residual values which may vary across brands and offset a higher purchase price.
Research maintenance costs, labour rates, parts bin prices for regular items and compare across the brands. Fuel consumption is a big factor so try to get a demo for a useful period although this can be tricky depending on your required spec and the dealer availability. If not research the industry press as they carry out reviews etc however interpret them objectively.
If you are having a bespoke body built on a chassis treat this as a separate procurement exercise as they vary greatly in quality- happy to give input here. By all means listen to the dealer but really you want to be talking directly to the body manufacturer.
Ask the dealers if they can put you in touch with current operators of their products- they will be very candid! Phone a few dealers and try to book a service or repair, see what the lead times are etc. Have a look what the quality operators are running when you're out and about, they will have gone through this process but at scale. Get a feel for actually running it.
For such a large financial commitment there is still a surprising amount of emotion that goes into truck purchasing so it pays to be objective and open minded.
Finally, negotiate firmly - they will be expecting it.
Edited by Venisonpie on Saturday 16th January 03:48
Venisonpie said:
Crikey, they all look expensive to me!
I've been a fleet manager for 25+ years running LGV/LCV. The up front cost is important but it's the full life cost that's important including vehicle uptime which impacts productivity. Ask for finance quotes including residual values which may vary across brands and offset a higher purchase price.
Research maintenance costs, labour rates, parts bin prices for regular items and compare across the brands. Fuel consumption is a big factor so try to get a demo for a useful period although this can be tricky depending on your required spec and the dealer availability. If not research the industry press as they carry out reviews etc however interpret them objectively.
If you are having a bespoke body built on a chassis treat this as a separate procurement exercise as they vary greatly in quality- happy to give input here. By all means listen to the dealer but really you want to be talking directly to the body manufacturer.
Ask the dealers if they can put you in touch with current operators of their products- they will be very candid! Phone a few dealers and try to book a service or repair, see what the lead times are etc. Have a look what the quality operators are running when you're out and about, they will have gone through this process but at scale. Get a feel for actually running it.
For such a large financial commitment there is still a surprising amount of emotion that goes into truck purchasing so it pays to be objective and open minded.
Finally, negotiate firmly - they will be expecting it.
What a brilliant, helpful post.I've been a fleet manager for 25+ years running LGV/LCV. The up front cost is important but it's the full life cost that's important including vehicle uptime which impacts productivity. Ask for finance quotes including residual values which may vary across brands and offset a higher purchase price.
Research maintenance costs, labour rates, parts bin prices for regular items and compare across the brands. Fuel consumption is a big factor so try to get a demo for a useful period although this can be tricky depending on your required spec and the dealer availability. If not research the industry press as they carry out reviews etc however interpret them objectively.
If you are having a bespoke body built on a chassis treat this as a separate procurement exercise as they vary greatly in quality- happy to give input here. By all means listen to the dealer but really you want to be talking directly to the body manufacturer.
Ask the dealers if they can put you in touch with current operators of their products- they will be very candid! Phone a few dealers and try to book a service or repair, see what the lead times are etc. Have a look what the quality operators are running when you're out and about, they will have gone through this process but at scale. Get a feel for actually running it.
For such a large financial commitment there is still a surprising amount of emotion that goes into truck purchasing so it pays to be objective and open minded.
Finally, negotiate firmly - they will be expecting it.
Edited by Venisonpie on Saturday 16th January 03:48
What PH used to be all about.
With experience of running all of these in a fleet, Personally I'd speak to the people at Daf with Iveco's quote in my pocket and ask them to work on their price. I have 8 year old ones still putting in a days work and not putting in too many bills, just ensure the dealer keeps on top of things like air pipes and looks out for any wiring looms that could chafe or short out, that's all we seem to ever have issues with, but even they are sporadic.
Although much improved over the originals, the Eurocargo is still less the all rounder than the Daf is. Silly niggling electrical faults that stop them and for some reason, an appetite for radiators. That said, it'd be my second choice.
Mercedes seem to have forgotten how to make a clutch that can handle urban start stop work and the driving position can be uncomfortable. Heavy, ponderous and unwieldy, not really built for urban work in my opinion.
The Fuso I have nothing nice to say about at all. Hardy, yes, but uncomfortable, bouncy, wayward steering, clumsy gearbox. horrible hunched driving position and an old fashioned car handbrake. If anyone over 5ft 6 drives it, I guarantee they'll bash their heads for the first few times they get in.
MAN is a very comfortable vehicle to drive in a straight line for long distances, driving comfort equal at least to the Daf if not actually better, but take it anywhere near urban work and it's as unwieldy as the Merc. Can't comment on reliability, as we only ever hired them in very occasionally.
Although much improved over the originals, the Eurocargo is still less the all rounder than the Daf is. Silly niggling electrical faults that stop them and for some reason, an appetite for radiators. That said, it'd be my second choice.
Mercedes seem to have forgotten how to make a clutch that can handle urban start stop work and the driving position can be uncomfortable. Heavy, ponderous and unwieldy, not really built for urban work in my opinion.
The Fuso I have nothing nice to say about at all. Hardy, yes, but uncomfortable, bouncy, wayward steering, clumsy gearbox. horrible hunched driving position and an old fashioned car handbrake. If anyone over 5ft 6 drives it, I guarantee they'll bash their heads for the first few times they get in.
MAN is a very comfortable vehicle to drive in a straight line for long distances, driving comfort equal at least to the Daf if not actually better, but take it anywhere near urban work and it's as unwieldy as the Merc. Can't comment on reliability, as we only ever hired them in very occasionally.
Rosscow said:
OK, have had prices for the following. Anyone with any knowledge please give your opinion!
MAN TGL. 4.9l 190hp engine. 4.5m wheelbase. £55,500 + VAT
DAF FA LF. 4.5l 184hp engine. 4.3m wheelbase. £59,950 + VAT
Fuso Canter. 3.0l 175hp engine. £51,600 + VAT
Iveco Eurocargo. 4.5ltr 160hp engine. 4.455m wheelbase. £50,210.00 + VAT
All of the above have a similar spec: auto gear box, air con, DVS kit comprising side scan, blind spot camera, rear camera, bluetooth, etc.
Body to have curtains both sides with internal removable shoring poles/loading rails (3 rails per side, with lok-tracks), v-groove side raves with pull up lashing points at 500mm centres, 1000kg tuck away tail lift, barn doors.
I've also had a price from Isuzu at £45,000 + VAT but that was for a standard body without removable poles/rails but with tuck away lift. 3.0l 150bhp engine.
The DAF is too much money. The Iveco is in the sweet spot, but I think I like the MAN. I'm not sure about the others with 3.0l engines.
Buy the MAN or the DAF. Avoid the Fuso / Canter / Isuzu they’re absolute scrap. Iveco slightly better but build quality still not great.MAN TGL. 4.9l 190hp engine. 4.5m wheelbase. £55,500 + VAT
DAF FA LF. 4.5l 184hp engine. 4.3m wheelbase. £59,950 + VAT
Fuso Canter. 3.0l 175hp engine. £51,600 + VAT
Iveco Eurocargo. 4.5ltr 160hp engine. 4.455m wheelbase. £50,210.00 + VAT
All of the above have a similar spec: auto gear box, air con, DVS kit comprising side scan, blind spot camera, rear camera, bluetooth, etc.
Body to have curtains both sides with internal removable shoring poles/loading rails (3 rails per side, with lok-tracks), v-groove side raves with pull up lashing points at 500mm centres, 1000kg tuck away tail lift, barn doors.
I've also had a price from Isuzu at £45,000 + VAT but that was for a standard body without removable poles/rails but with tuck away lift. 3.0l 150bhp engine.
The DAF is too much money. The Iveco is in the sweet spot, but I think I like the MAN. I'm not sure about the others with 3.0l engines.
The Fuso/Isuzu may be alright for tiny Japanese people, but are not suited for our British market and no driver will thank you for buying one.
Any Iveco may be cheap-ish to begin with but they feel cheap and will just fall to bits around you.
The MAN doesn't have the greatest reputation for longevity and will likely either lunch its own engine, have expensive dpf faults and probably constant warning lights on the dashboard.
Can you see where this is going...
Out of your options the DAF is the clear choice from where I'm sitting. It's likely to be the most reliable, it'll be pretty comfortable and a nice vehicle to drive. As one of my respected workmates has always said "they are a good bread and butter truck".
Any Iveco may be cheap-ish to begin with but they feel cheap and will just fall to bits around you.
The MAN doesn't have the greatest reputation for longevity and will likely either lunch its own engine, have expensive dpf faults and probably constant warning lights on the dashboard.
Can you see where this is going...
Out of your options the DAF is the clear choice from where I'm sitting. It's likely to be the most reliable, it'll be pretty comfortable and a nice vehicle to drive. As one of my respected workmates has always said "they are a good bread and butter truck".
What sort of mission are you doing? If you’re inner city and mult-dropping, the IVECO’s SCR system (passive regeneration) will be more beneficial than manufacturers using EGR.
DAF produced a video that’s still on YouTube about forced regeneration. If ever required, It can take up to 75 minutes if memory serves and the tacho needs to be put to other work, while it happens.
The DAF and the IVECO use the same ZF gearbox and I don’t know if it’s still the case, but DAF used to use the IVECO block (through Cummins).
Like someone has said, look into your local dealers and read up on reviews. Whichever truck you choose, unfortunately it will have its problems at some point, I could suggest a vehicle to you, but my local dealer could be excellent and yours less so.
If the IVECO is still under consideration, check with your local dealer about the warranties. Eurocargo’s are currently being offered with two years free R & M. You could add a third year cover to this and still be a lot better off (when you take into account all your PMI’s MOTs etc are included, as well as wear and tear in your first two years).
The DAF price surprised me - they are normally very competitive against the traditional 7.5t truck manufactures.
The IVECO price is slightly misleading as they should be quoting the 190bhp engine to give you a more like for like quote.
DAF produced a video that’s still on YouTube about forced regeneration. If ever required, It can take up to 75 minutes if memory serves and the tacho needs to be put to other work, while it happens.
The DAF and the IVECO use the same ZF gearbox and I don’t know if it’s still the case, but DAF used to use the IVECO block (through Cummins).
Like someone has said, look into your local dealers and read up on reviews. Whichever truck you choose, unfortunately it will have its problems at some point, I could suggest a vehicle to you, but my local dealer could be excellent and yours less so.
If the IVECO is still under consideration, check with your local dealer about the warranties. Eurocargo’s are currently being offered with two years free R & M. You could add a third year cover to this and still be a lot better off (when you take into account all your PMI’s MOTs etc are included, as well as wear and tear in your first two years).
The DAF price surprised me - they are normally very competitive against the traditional 7.5t truck manufactures.
The IVECO price is slightly misleading as they should be quoting the 190bhp engine to give you a more like for like quote.
I have nothing more to add really other than don’t buy the Isuzu or Fuso, I had the misfortune of moving some of these things in a yard and just getting in and out of them was a challenge to avoid bumping your head on the roof, b pillar etc. Horrible horrible things. I’m only 5’10’’ so hardly big
From a drivers point of view I’d prefer the DAF, the LF has always been a cracking truck, but don’t discount Renault with the Midlum,
From a drivers point of view I’d prefer the DAF, the LF has always been a cracking truck, but don’t discount Renault with the Midlum,
[quote=Rosscow]OK, have had prices for the following. Anyone with any knowledge please give your opinion!
MAN TGL. 4.9l 190hp engine. 4.5m wheelbase. £55,500 + VAT
DAF FA LF. 4.5l 184hp engine. 4.3m wheelbase. £59,950 + VAT
Fuso Canter. 3.0l 175hp engine. £51,600 + VAT
Iveco Eurocargo. 4.5ltr 160hp engine. 4.455m wheelbase. £50,210.00 + VAT
All of the above have a similar spec: auto gear box, air con, DVS kit comprising side scan, blind spot camera, rear camera, bluetooth, etc.
Body to have curtains both sides with internal removable shoring poles/loading rails (3 rails per side, with lok-tracks), v-groove side raves with pull up lashing points at 500mm centres, 1000kg tuck away tail lift, barn doors.
I've also had a price from Isuzu at £45,000 + VAT but that was for a standard body without removable poles/rails but with tuck away lift. 3.0l 150bhp engine.
The DAF is too much money. The Iveco is in the sweet spot, but I think I like the MAN. I'm not sure about the others with 3.0l engines.
Been driving 7.5 ton trucks to Europe for over 35 years so can only give you a driver's point of view, driven them all from old Bedford's and ford d series to modern MANS
What I would buy would be dependent on what it's used for.
Firstly think carefully about having an auto, autos work well with the big powerful stuff not with a 4pot trucks that will be horribly over turbo's and lacking torque. Personally would look at nothing smaller than a 220bhp the difference between that and a 180bhp is incredible for obvious reasons and I know our dealer does a 220 for the price of a 180bhp. If I was only doing local stuff would look for convenience of where the dealer is nothing worse than having to drive an hour to nearest dealer just for a service. For me there isn't much between the MAN, DAF, Merc or Volvo they will do some things better than the others and vica versa. One last tip tell your dealer you do not want emergency brake assist unless it's able to be switched off. Genuinely how that deemed an improvement in road safety I will never know. Terrifying system on the MAN and I mean genuinely frightening
MAN TGL. 4.9l 190hp engine. 4.5m wheelbase. £55,500 + VAT
DAF FA LF. 4.5l 184hp engine. 4.3m wheelbase. £59,950 + VAT
Fuso Canter. 3.0l 175hp engine. £51,600 + VAT
Iveco Eurocargo. 4.5ltr 160hp engine. 4.455m wheelbase. £50,210.00 + VAT
All of the above have a similar spec: auto gear box, air con, DVS kit comprising side scan, blind spot camera, rear camera, bluetooth, etc.
Body to have curtains both sides with internal removable shoring poles/loading rails (3 rails per side, with lok-tracks), v-groove side raves with pull up lashing points at 500mm centres, 1000kg tuck away tail lift, barn doors.
I've also had a price from Isuzu at £45,000 + VAT but that was for a standard body without removable poles/rails but with tuck away lift. 3.0l 150bhp engine.
The DAF is too much money. The Iveco is in the sweet spot, but I think I like the MAN. I'm not sure about the others with 3.0l engines.
Been driving 7.5 ton trucks to Europe for over 35 years so can only give you a driver's point of view, driven them all from old Bedford's and ford d series to modern MANS
What I would buy would be dependent on what it's used for.
Firstly think carefully about having an auto, autos work well with the big powerful stuff not with a 4pot trucks that will be horribly over turbo's and lacking torque. Personally would look at nothing smaller than a 220bhp the difference between that and a 180bhp is incredible for obvious reasons and I know our dealer does a 220 for the price of a 180bhp. If I was only doing local stuff would look for convenience of where the dealer is nothing worse than having to drive an hour to nearest dealer just for a service. For me there isn't much between the MAN, DAF, Merc or Volvo they will do some things better than the others and vica versa. One last tip tell your dealer you do not want emergency brake assist unless it's able to be switched off. Genuinely how that deemed an improvement in road safety I will never know. Terrifying system on the MAN and I mean genuinely frightening
are the fuso and isuzu really that bad?
ive got the 3.5t canter and its been a great truck, ive got an 08 and a 16 and touch wood both have been reliable. Im 5ft 8 and driving them is fine, infact a couple of lads that have worked for me are over 6ft and none have complained.
I really want a 7.5t and the whole gain would be payload, so for me its either isuzu or fuso. I have read the fuso auto boxes aren't that great..... so leaves isuzu.
A few people i know that have them really rate them (thats fuso as well). isuzu boxes are meant to be more reliable but not that smooth.
But then i suppose i am building trade, not doing long journeys and so are the people i know. i can see how a 6ft2 bloke wouldn't want to be driving one for hours a day though tbh.
ive got the 3.5t canter and its been a great truck, ive got an 08 and a 16 and touch wood both have been reliable. Im 5ft 8 and driving them is fine, infact a couple of lads that have worked for me are over 6ft and none have complained.
I really want a 7.5t and the whole gain would be payload, so for me its either isuzu or fuso. I have read the fuso auto boxes aren't that great..... so leaves isuzu.
A few people i know that have them really rate them (thats fuso as well). isuzu boxes are meant to be more reliable but not that smooth.
But then i suppose i am building trade, not doing long journeys and so are the people i know. i can see how a 6ft2 bloke wouldn't want to be driving one for hours a day though tbh.
GC8 said:
Re horsepower and elevated requirements: I used to run an FL6 which carried 18 tonnes and it went well enough with 180bhp.
You dont need anything like 220bhp for a 7.5t van - they arent supposed to be driven like cars.
You dont need anything like 220bhp for a 7.5t van - they arent supposed to be driven like cars.
It's very dependent on what the application is. All our 18t vehicles are all 320 and 7.5 are all 220. Good luck climbing up to mont blanc tunnel I'll meet you at the top . Modern 7.5 engines all 4pot and lack the torque the older stuff.
Edited by Ozzer2006 on Wednesday 20th January 09:55
Ozzer2006 said:
It's very dependent on what the application is. All our 18t vehicles are all 320 and 7.5 are all 220. Good luck climbing up to mont blanc tunnel I'll meet you at the top . Modern 7.5 engines all 4pot and lack the torque the older stuff.
Edited by Ozzer2006 on Wednesday 20th January 09:55
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