Becoming a HGV driver?

[Its Just Adz]

Bloody hell, some going that.

So like a stepframe style rear steer where it follows you?

[Smint]

@ Stussy.

So that rear axle turns the correct way for you when reversing too? same as a rear steer on a rigid? ie would turn the correct way for you if you had to reverse around that corner.
Is that rear axle controlled electronically or how is it linked to the fifth wheel/rubbing plate, how does it turn the correct way and to a suitable angle.
Do you happen to know how much weight that rear steer set up adds to the tank tare? i ask because it's something my lot are going to have to look at.

Sorry for the extra questions, but when you find someone knows what they are doing and obviously takes an interest/pride in their work that's the person to ask, much obliged for any info you can offer.

Edited by Smint on Thursday 26th May 06:52

[Glenn63]

I used to drive these and the rear steer means you get into some very tight places which would literally be impossible in a fixed trailer.
They caught a few new lads out though who are used to taking turns wide with full lock (say into a side road) and the rear would swing out the opposite way and take out any parked cars/traffic with it!

[Smint]

Now and again i towed a short urban semi-trailer with one single axle which also steered going forward and backwards, that was a weird and wonderful thing to tow, the biggest issue was reversing onto a bay with guide lines, if you backed in by looking at the trailer you'd end up all over the place, but if you watched he trailer wheels you could put the thing anywhere.
Can't remember now how the steering system worked.

[Shaw Tarse]

Stussy said:

That lane is like a motorway down here!
Here’s me in an artic milk tanker, as shown at the end

My luck I'd meet another one coming the other way

[s p a c e m a n]

We used to have steer on the back axle and lift on the front, ours was like a loose steering axle that had an air operated pin that dropped in the middle to lock it when we reversed. Problem was that you obviously had to have the axle straight for the pin to engage so it might get you around a corner but then you needed enough distance to straighten up before you could reverse again. It would be a nightmare on mud because the axle would move a little in the ruts whilst you were going forward so wouldn't be straight enough for the pin to engage for you to reverse, for this reason drivers would flick the switch to lock the axle manually and then forget to unlock it. Few thousand miles of doing that repeatedly and the pin broke leaving you to reverse like a crab until you got back to the yard

We now have lift front and back axles, handbrake on, pump the brake pedal three times and both axles lift leaving you running on just the middle one. Get these tanks in almost anywhere.

[Its Just Adz]

Glenn63 said:

I used to drive these and the rear steer means you get into some very tight places which would literally be impossible in a fixed trailer.
They caught a few new lads out though who are used to taking turns wide with full lock (say into a side road) and the rear would swing out the opposite way and take out any parked cars/traffic with it!

I see these a lot around Leyland, they look very impressive.
I've done a few multi Axle stepframe and they do take getting used to, as you say.
But once you get your head around it, it's really helpful.

[944 Man]

Stussy said:

you can near enough go round any corner without having to take it wide and the trailer will follow. Nearly as good as an A frame wagon and drag in that respect

But FAR nicer to reverse...

[r3g]

Glenn63 said:

I used to drive these and the rear steer means you get into some very tight places which would literally be impossible in a fixed trailer.
They caught a few new lads out though who are used to taking turns wide with full lock (say into a side road) and the rear would swing out the opposite way and take out any parked cars/traffic with it!

I remember my first time out with a King 4-axle rear steer swan neck, going to pick up a screener. Turned left as normal at a small roundabout with a narrow entrance and the o/s rear corner of the trailer went straight over the top of both of the plastic obelisks on the island. That was embarrassing.

Even the rear-steer axles on 'standard' size trailers need caution for the same reason as they swing out wide on tight turns. We had a farm entrance much like the one in Stussy's clip, but there was a house on the left side with a nice stone wall.... Our little tandem axle tanker was the only vehicle that could get in as it the wheel base of the 8 leg rigid tankers was too long to make the turn, but if you didn't get your approach bang on you'd either catch the wall with the trailer swing on the left or catch the stone gate with the o/s trailer mudguards on the right. Before I left, the company had paid to rebuild their wall 3 times .

[r3g]

Smint said:

@ Stussy.

So that rear axle turns the correct way for you when reversing too? same as a rear steer on a rigid? ie would turn the correct way for you if you had to reverse around that corner.
[b]Is that rear axle controlled electronically or how is it linked to the fifth wheel/rubbing plate, how does it turn the correct way and to a suitable angle.
Do you happen to know how much weight that rear steer set up adds to the tank tare? i ask because it's something my lot are going to have to look at.[/b]

Sorry for the extra questions, but when you find someone knows what they are doing and obviously takes an interest/pride in their work that's the person to ask, much obliged for any info you can offer.

Edited by Smint on Thursday 26th May 06:52

There's a wedge in the fifth wheel coupling which detects the angle of the trailer vs. the coupling and then steers the rear axle based on that input. When you couple up it's crucial that you're completely straight with the trailer, otherwise you'll be driving down the road with the trailer crabbing to one side. Sometimes you'll see this in action on the motorways if you're following a low-loader from some crappy company where the drivers don't give a toss. The unit will be driving down the middle of lane 1 but the trailer will be following with the wheels nearly in the hard shoulder . There's usually a control box on the trailer somewhere to manually adjust the trailer tracking angle if they end up on the piss.

As for weight, will vary between manufacturers. Expect to lose about 0.75 to a tonne payload over a fixed bogey.

[Smint]

Much obliged for that r3g, all makes sense.

Hmm 3/4ton+ would be a problem for us who run near enough max weight every time when loaded.
Might be feasable to have a couple of tanks with rear steers that could be earmarked to certain deliveries where the strains imposed by compuslory ridiculous turning circles (that have to be taken whilst loaded) are causing long term damage.

[r3g]

Smint said:

Much obliged for that r3g, all makes sense.

Hmm 3/4ton+ would be a problem for us who run near enough max weight every time when loaded.
Might be feasable to have a couple of tanks with rear steers that could be earmarked to certain deliveries where the strains imposed by compuslory ridiculous turning circles (that have to be taken whilst loaded) are causing long term damage.

You on milk?

The usual meta is to have the 8 leggers doing the tighter farms and then outbase reload tankers in the vicinity, usually at one of your customer's farms with good access. 8 leggers fill up, come to reload tanker, tranship, go do some more farms, tranship, finish the remaining farms then go back to the dairy to offload and CIP. You have a 2nd driver whose job it is to swap the reload tankers with empty ones. The lighter modern ones will do about 29500 litres with low roof non-sleeper cabs, alloys all round and weight-saver mini mid-lift. We had older heavier tankers and also a big sleeper cab with full size steelies and big tanks so anything over 28500 litres would see me overweight if the fuel tanks were full and I'd had a couple of big dirty take-aways over the previous weekend but ours was for our own product, not subbing transport duties for a big dairy, so absolute maximum payload wasn't crucial for us.

[Smint]

Pressure powder tanks, like yourselves weight is crucial and the distances can be high so as much product as reasonably practical.
Tipping gear and blowers fitted to all tractor units so those alone tareing at 8200/8600.

[r3g]

Smint said:

Pressure powder tanks, like yourselves weight is crucial and the distances can be high so as much product as reasonably practical.
Tipping gear and blowers fitted to all tractor units so those alone tareing at 8200/8600.

Can't help on powder tanks, I know nothing about those, although I used to trunk the belly tankers for British Sugar some years ago but never offloaded them.
You don't see rear-steers on powder tanks for the reasons you state. Tare & payload are king. They don't care about the tyres or access - "just do the best you can".

[Stussy]

With a P450 day cab ours carried 27000 litres which took it to just under 44t. The rear steer is driven by a bar on a turntable under the 5th wheel, so it’s impossible to hitch up and not have it in the correct place, as there is no wedge or pin to worry about, which is why it can’t be locked straight.
If anything, it’s better to not have it locked as once you get the hang of steering the trailer and the cab you can turn n stupidly tight spots

[lost in espace]

Bootcamp progress to date: Medical completed, provisional licence received back, and booked onto a CPC course in June. Been practicing my theory and the hazard awareness, theory is no problem but hazard awareness is not as easy as I thought.

Am I right in thinking if I complete the CPC with my 7.5t grandfather rights I can start a job at this truck size, as long as I get my digi card?

Edited by lost in espace on Thursday 26th May 13:59

[Smint]

Stussy said:

With a P450 day cab ours carried 27000 litres which took it to just under 44t. The rear steer is driven by a bar on a turntable under the 5th wheel, so it’s impossible to hitch up and not have it in the correct place, as there is no wedge or pin to worry about, which is why it can’t be locked straight.
If anything, it’s better to not have it locked as once you get the hang of steering the trailer and the cab you can turn n stupidly tight spots

Thanks Stussy.
That makes things slightly more awkward if i assume rightly, that conversion work would be needed under the fifth wheel of tractors to make the system work? or is the mechanism fitted to the rubbing plate behind the trailer king pin so as you connect up the magic bits butt up to any fifth wheel.

What i'm asking is can a standard tractor unit pull one of your type of rear steer tanks but without the rear steer system operating, or must it be pulled by a suitable tractor with the correct fittings under the fifth wheel?

Sorry for all the questions, the issue isn't just excess tyre wear alone due to ridiculous turning circles that no one in their right mind would have designed for fully freighted artics, further longer term damage is being inflicted.

[944 Man]

lost in espace said:

Bootcamp progress to date: Medical completed, provisional licence received back, and booked onto a CPC course in June. Been practicing my theory and the hazard awareness, theory is no problem but hazard awareness is not as easy as I thought.

Am I right in thinking if I complete the CPC with my 7.5t grandfather rights I can start a job at this truck size, as long as I get my digi card?

Edited by lost in espace on Thursday 26th May 13:59

I scored 98%, but to start with, I fell foul of the inbuilt anti-cheat feature, which is rather a broad brush. Instead of clicking immediately when you see a problem developing, wait for a fraction of a second before clicking. If you are really keen, then the catch out the constant clicker feature will cancel many of your legitimate clicks.

[Stussy]

You can use any unit and not need modifications to the 5th wheel at all, and all of the trailer steering will work perfectly. Basically, everything is done on the trailer.
To give you an idea, the width of 3 trucks parked next to each other, you can do a U turn in that space! It’s quite surprising.
These tankers were made by Crossland. This pic shows how much of an angle you can get with turntable steering!



As for meeting an artic on single track lanes, I’ve had it a few times in one as narrow as the video!
I was only a few hundred yards from my farm turn, but he refused to reverse saying it was too tight, so I had do it about half a mile!
Very very hard when as soon as you move the unit to steer the trailer you are in the hedge, especially a Cornish one full of stone!
The mirrors are in the top of it, you can’t put your head out due to brambles and stingers, it’s a good challenge.
If you can do farm collections down here you can do anything. I drive a double decker trunk now and absolutely nothing phases me regarding tight gaps or roads, it’s definitely a great advantage

Edited by Stussy on Thursday 26th May 17:28

[Stussy]

This is an older Sayers tanker, the steering is still good, but not as tight as the Crossland