How are there so many fast HGV's in the UK?
Discussion
The limit in the UK when it was introduced was 60 mph but the EU limit was 90 kph . Limiters were set to 56 mph to comply with both .
I worried that being limited to 56 would send me to sleep when I went back on the trucks after a break of several years during which the limits all changed.
At the change time older pre limit vehicles were at a premium if in good condition with the more powerful spec'd engines .
The recovery truck that I used to drive would hit 70 on the flat and off the clock (90+) down hill.
Being a 7.5t unrestricted vehicle it was also permitted in the outside lane on motorways something many people didn't realise.
Lots of regulations changed while I was out of the trucks the main thing was train weights on 7.5t class , before the change my limit was 11t post change it dropped to 8.25t .
Given the gross weight on class one has not changed for years I do wonder why companies are buying 700bhp + units when 500 units are more than capable of doing the job .
I worried that being limited to 56 would send me to sleep when I went back on the trucks after a break of several years during which the limits all changed.
At the change time older pre limit vehicles were at a premium if in good condition with the more powerful spec'd engines .
The recovery truck that I used to drive would hit 70 on the flat and off the clock (90+) down hill.
Being a 7.5t unrestricted vehicle it was also permitted in the outside lane on motorways something many people didn't realise.
Lots of regulations changed while I was out of the trucks the main thing was train weights on 7.5t class , before the change my limit was 11t post change it dropped to 8.25t .
Given the gross weight on class one has not changed for years I do wonder why companies are buying 700bhp + units when 500 units are more than capable of doing the job .
Given the gross weight on class one has not changed for years I do wonder why companies are buying 700bhp + units when 500 units are more than capable of doing the job .
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People run them as a flagship or just because they want one, i'm into my trucks and run a 750, i don't need it but i wanted it.
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People run them as a flagship or just because they want one, i'm into my trucks and run a 750, i don't need it but i wanted it.
grumpy52 said:
Given the gross weight on class one has not changed for years I do wonder why companies are buying 700bhp + units when 500 units are more than capable of doing the job .
The 500s of today are like the 380s from 20 years ago, due to all the emissions crap strangling them. I used to drive a Y-plate FM12 420 on tanker work and it'd trudge up Windy Hill from Lancs side fully loaded at 43mph, dropping to 40mph for the steep bit in the bends just before the peak. Even the 380 FM spare we had would just about manage 40. Doing the same weight with a tanker in a 66-plate R500 and a 69-plate R540 the former maxes out at 35mph (without dropping a cog and thrashing it) and the latter only manages 40 if you've got a good tailwind.It's not just the emissions crap, but also the company spec'ing fuel economy ECU maps which essentially only let you access around 75% of the engine's capability.
Any of the old skool 20+ year trucks with a bhp figure starting with a 5 would wipe the floor performance wise over anything modern.
Edited by r3g on Friday 15th March 16:26
r3g said:
The 500s of today are like the 380s from 20 years ago, due to all the emissions crap strangling them. I used to drive a Y-plate FM12 420 on tanker work and it'd trudge up Windy Hill from Lancs side fully loaded at 43mph, dropping to 40mph for the steep bit in the bends just before the peak. Even the 380 FM spare we had would just about manage 40. Doing the same weight with a tanker in a 66-plate R500 and a 69-plate R540 the former maxes out at 35mph (without dropping a cog and trashing it) and the latter only manages 40 if you've got a good tailwind.
It's not just the emissions crap, but also the company spec'ing fuel economy ECU maps which essentially only let you access around 75% of the engine's capability.
Any of the old skool 20+ year trucks with a bhp figure starting with a 5 would wipe the floor performance wise over anything modern.
Spot on.It's not just the emissions crap, but also the company spec'ing fuel economy ECU maps which essentially only let you access around 75% of the engine's capability.
Any of the old skool 20+ year trucks with a bhp figure starting with a 5 would wipe the floor performance wise over anything modern.
Had a 80's regd MAN that would cruise at 95 if you wanted, don't mean kph either.
14 litre Cummins' before that @ 38 tons it would take a decent hill to drop below 60mph, obviously you'd be hitting the hill at 70.
Those vehicles were relatively simple and tough not stuffed with fragile electronics, in the event of something going wrong it was usually a roadside fix, you almost never saw a recovery wagon.
Now its recovery every time @ £££, and they call it progress.
Smint said:
r3g said:
The 500s of today are like the 380s from 20 years ago, due to all the emissions crap strangling them. I used to drive a Y-plate FM12 420 on tanker work and it'd trudge up Windy Hill from Lancs side fully loaded at 43mph, dropping to 40mph for the steep bit in the bends just before the peak. Even the 380 FM spare we had would just about manage 40. Doing the same weight with a tanker in a 66-plate R500 and a 69-plate R540 the former maxes out at 35mph (without dropping a cog and trashing it) and the latter only manages 40 if you've got a good tailwind.
It's not just the emissions crap, but also the company spec'ing fuel economy ECU maps which essentially only let you access around 75% of the engine's capability.
Any of the old skool 20+ year trucks with a bhp figure starting with a 5 would wipe the floor performance wise over anything modern.
Spot on.It's not just the emissions crap, but also the company spec'ing fuel economy ECU maps which essentially only let you access around 75% of the engine's capability.
Any of the old skool 20+ year trucks with a bhp figure starting with a 5 would wipe the floor performance wise over anything modern.
Had a 80's regd MAN that would cruise at 95 if you wanted, don't mean kph either.
14 litre Cummins' before that @ 38 tons it would take a decent hill to drop below 60mph, obviously you'd be hitting the hill at 70.
Those vehicles were relatively simple and tough not stuffed with fragile electronics, in the event of something going wrong it was usually a roadside fix, you almost never saw a recovery wagon.
Now its recovery every time @ £££, and they call it progress.
The old recovery truck had two problems in 5 years , the air outlet pipe from the compressor fractured ,a known fault on this model . The plastic hydraulic filter housing split meaning I couldn't use the recovery equipment.
The later stuff, DAF and Isuzu were constantly throwing faults . The Isuzu's were so unreliable and uncomfortable after two trips in them I refused to drive them along with most other drivers on the company .
I certainly understand why many companies on Euro work seek out the tuning companies and have their trucks re-mapped .
Where I worked many years ago had a 450 Scania that had a pump failure in Belgium, the local specialist fitted a "special" pump ,that truck was a flying machine after that . It got clocked on the flat pulling a loaded fridge trailer at over 100mph . The company got a ministry visit after that .
The days of hidden switches,broken tacho fronts . £50 fines for no tacho disk in the recorder when the infringment fines were much higher .
Filled one card ? Throw it away and put a fresh one in it's a fresh shift !
grumpy52 said:
The later stuff, DAF and Isuzu were constantly throwing faults
DAF went to s
t in the early to mid 2000s. The 85 CF and 95 XF (and prior to those, the ATIs) were good reliable workhorses and comfy to drive. Then the 105 came along and the Euro emissions number increased by a digit and the range instantly turned into an unreliable bag of knackers, constantly throwing up warnings due to various sensors failing and they're so bad now that they make the original Iveco Stralis look like the pinnacle of truck reliability.r3g said:
grumpy52 said:
The later stuff, DAF and Isuzu were constantly throwing faults
DAF went to st in the early to mid 2000s. The 85 CF and 95 XF (and prior to those, the ATIs) were good reliable workhorses and comfy to drive. Then the 105 came along and the Euro emissions number increased by a digit and the range instantly turned into an unreliable bag of knackers, constantly throwing up warnings due to various sensors failing and they're so bad now that they make the original Iveco Stralis look like the pinnacle of truck reliability.I had it for six years, did 400 odd thousand kms, and about 5000 hrs powering the crane on it, in all that time the only issues were an alternator and a turbo-fantastic motor and it was used hard, sometimes down to its axles in mud.Only got it taken off me as it could no longer go into London. We’ve got two euro 6 CF’s now and they are always going wrong-you guessed it, emmisions stuff.
I have a brand new Scania now and I love it, but I’ll be amazed if it’s half as reliable as that old Daf
I found this pic of me driving it on the internet..
We had a bunch of the older 67 plate Mercedes that would do 57 GPS on the flat. That is the fastest I have been in.
Most of these "super fast" HGV's are doing those speeds because they are going down a big hill. Where the M11 meets the M25 you can quite easily get to 70 if you are heavy and don't bother using your exhaust brake/brakes.
I was once behind a lorry who I overtook because he was sitting behind a slow moving van. Only a minute later to see him flying past me at a GPS 60mph. I knew this because the new Mercedes Actros has a dash readout for the speed of traffic ahead.
It was strange because he kept hitting the brakes at 60 or the exhaust brake was coming on to try and reduce the speed. Was obviously running bent. I saw a rigid scrap tipper come flying past me at 60+ a couple of months back on the A1 Northbound. Again running bent.
Most of these "super fast" HGV's are doing those speeds because they are going down a big hill. Where the M11 meets the M25 you can quite easily get to 70 if you are heavy and don't bother using your exhaust brake/brakes.
I was once behind a lorry who I overtook because he was sitting behind a slow moving van. Only a minute later to see him flying past me at a GPS 60mph. I knew this because the new Mercedes Actros has a dash readout for the speed of traffic ahead.
It was strange because he kept hitting the brakes at 60 or the exhaust brake was coming on to try and reduce the speed. Was obviously running bent. I saw a rigid scrap tipper come flying past me at 60+ a couple of months back on the A1 Northbound. Again running bent.
LuckyThirteen said:
That's a good point.
Recently for me
Audi S1 indicated 70mph was 66mph
Yaris GR consistently 2mph out.
BMW 760 is about 3mph out.
And my old Lotus Carlton reads 80mph when the GPS says 72
Every modern car reads higher than actual speed, probably to avoid law suits in this crazy world.Recently for me
Audi S1 indicated 70mph was 66mph
Yaris GR consistently 2mph out.
BMW 760 is about 3mph out.
And my old Lotus Carlton reads 80mph when the GPS says 72
Simple answer to high speed trucks, the laptop lol,
s p a c e m a n said:
I've been in Florida for the past couple weeks, trucks doing 70+ is awesome, I want to take one home
I was in Baltimore just over a year ago working on the I695. Watching big Kenworths & Peterbilts hitting some of the inclines at 80mph and hearing the roar from their stacks was incredible. 
I was an agency driver and I had a Daf (Somerfield?) and if I stamped on the accelerator it would stick on and get to 70mph, fully loaded, on the straight. I chickened out at that speed as it was pretty scary!
That was pre digital tacho days.
Also, the older Dafs had this key ignition reset thing that would allow you to go 65mph whilst it reset. Great for overtaking!
That was pre digital tacho days.
Also, the older Dafs had this key ignition reset thing that would allow you to go 65mph whilst it reset. Great for overtaking!
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