New purchase - VW T6 Westfalia Kepler One
Discussion
Fantastic blog of your experiences with the Kepler. I have also been somewhat smitten by the Kepler One having first seen one at the motor home show in Düsseldorf as long ago as 2015. They are only just arriving in the UK now and in the meantime I bought a Westfalia Columbus 601D a couple of years ago as Mrs SG wanted something more spacious.
Typically, she now wants something smaller as we are currently also running 2 cars and want to reduce the fleet to one car and a camper. Annoyingly, we actually had a California for 4 years and got rid of that (a 172 bhp tiptronic auto with only 20k covered for £30k! - it wouldn’t be worth much less than that 7 years on!)
Our Columbus is a great camper,but definitely not a daily driver. One thing that bothers me about the “One” version of the Kepler is the lack of storage. Currently, we are able to comfortably carry 2 mountain bikes (inside!) bike stuff, walking boots, table and chairs, chocks, hook up cable (rarely use as solar panel means we have been away for 3 to 5 weeks trips with no hook up), outdoor clothing, maps, hose etc etc. Where on earth do you put everything? We would intend to pare everything down to the bone, but even so, it would be a squeeze, even with a bike rack. Your advice on what we could do would be most appreciated.
I had a serious look at a Kepler Six when we were passing through Edinburgh the other day. Mrs SG doesn’t like the low kitchen like the California and all the numerous other similar VW conversions, or the lack of loo which we have got used to in the Columbus. However, the Six has the advantage of far more storage behind the conventional rear bench seat. Also, it costs more when you add heating. Difficult decision - maybe sensible to keep the Columbus and 2 cars. The other option is the Westfalia Club Joker City which is basically a Kepler Six in a SWB and is bizarrely more expensive. But it would be even more car like to drive.
Typically, she now wants something smaller as we are currently also running 2 cars and want to reduce the fleet to one car and a camper. Annoyingly, we actually had a California for 4 years and got rid of that (a 172 bhp tiptronic auto with only 20k covered for £30k! - it wouldn’t be worth much less than that 7 years on!)
Our Columbus is a great camper,but definitely not a daily driver. One thing that bothers me about the “One” version of the Kepler is the lack of storage. Currently, we are able to comfortably carry 2 mountain bikes (inside!) bike stuff, walking boots, table and chairs, chocks, hook up cable (rarely use as solar panel means we have been away for 3 to 5 weeks trips with no hook up), outdoor clothing, maps, hose etc etc. Where on earth do you put everything? We would intend to pare everything down to the bone, but even so, it would be a squeeze, even with a bike rack. Your advice on what we could do would be most appreciated.
I had a serious look at a Kepler Six when we were passing through Edinburgh the other day. Mrs SG doesn’t like the low kitchen like the California and all the numerous other similar VW conversions, or the lack of loo which we have got used to in the Columbus. However, the Six has the advantage of far more storage behind the conventional rear bench seat. Also, it costs more when you add heating. Difficult decision - maybe sensible to keep the Columbus and 2 cars. The other option is the Westfalia Club Joker City which is basically a Kepler Six in a SWB and is bizarrely more expensive. But it would be even more car like to drive.
Edited by SubieGeorge on Friday 8th June 09:37
Thanks. Pleased it's useful/interesting to folk.
Space could for some people be an issue. And particularly for me, given how used I am to A-class motorhomes with exterior lockers and lots of storage. You just have to cut your cloth and accept that certain things won't pack away fully when you're on the move (which makes using the van during a quick coffee stop a little more difficult), but I wouldn't say that it's a disaster either. We've been away on a snowboarding holiday in it with two snowboards and paraphernalia; the boards in a bag on the L-shaped sofa between the table and the side of the van and the other gear on the floor, tucked safely around the table and lodged tightly behind the front seats.
When we're away camping for the weekend, we pack in all our clothes (loads of storage space for clothes etc) and we have the chocks, table & chairs and awning jigsaw puzzle packed around the table and behind the seats, with the silver screen in a bag on the sofa, ditto the duvet and pillows (we glamp rather than camp!!). I'm cool with this since as soon as we stop, the chocks go under the vehicle (whether used or not), the silver screen goes on, the awning gets put up and the bed is made and then pushed up into the roof space and we have a clear sofa and table area.
Hookup cable fits nicely in a drawer under the sofa, there's a huge amount of other space for heater, blankets or helmets in the footstool under the L-sofa. The toilet chemicals, bucket and other utility bits go next to the gas bottle. Lots of space if not for hanging things, but storing larger items in the wardrobe. The cupboard above the toilet, we've only got toilet rolls in and loads of space left over which we're yet to fill. In the summer, we don't use much space for clothing so more space left for food/drink or ancillaries. And the drawers immediately on the left as you go into the hab area are still also mostly empty too. It's very spacious IMO for what it is.
It's easy for us as we don't have any kids together. It'll be a completely different kettle of fish when we have my daughter with us one day or our own kids. Then the Concorde will come back into play for a good while, I'd say.
But for a couple it's easy. We'll probably get a towbar fitted so we can get a Thule bike carrier for mountain bikes.
In short, we love it. The toilet makes it a fab van and makes you totally independent and able to go places which are wild, but also not roughing it.
Anything else you want to know, just ask!
Space could for some people be an issue. And particularly for me, given how used I am to A-class motorhomes with exterior lockers and lots of storage. You just have to cut your cloth and accept that certain things won't pack away fully when you're on the move (which makes using the van during a quick coffee stop a little more difficult), but I wouldn't say that it's a disaster either. We've been away on a snowboarding holiday in it with two snowboards and paraphernalia; the boards in a bag on the L-shaped sofa between the table and the side of the van and the other gear on the floor, tucked safely around the table and lodged tightly behind the front seats.
When we're away camping for the weekend, we pack in all our clothes (loads of storage space for clothes etc) and we have the chocks, table & chairs and awning jigsaw puzzle packed around the table and behind the seats, with the silver screen in a bag on the sofa, ditto the duvet and pillows (we glamp rather than camp!!). I'm cool with this since as soon as we stop, the chocks go under the vehicle (whether used or not), the silver screen goes on, the awning gets put up and the bed is made and then pushed up into the roof space and we have a clear sofa and table area.
Hookup cable fits nicely in a drawer under the sofa, there's a huge amount of other space for heater, blankets or helmets in the footstool under the L-sofa. The toilet chemicals, bucket and other utility bits go next to the gas bottle. Lots of space if not for hanging things, but storing larger items in the wardrobe. The cupboard above the toilet, we've only got toilet rolls in and loads of space left over which we're yet to fill. In the summer, we don't use much space for clothing so more space left for food/drink or ancillaries. And the drawers immediately on the left as you go into the hab area are still also mostly empty too. It's very spacious IMO for what it is.
It's easy for us as we don't have any kids together. It'll be a completely different kettle of fish when we have my daughter with us one day or our own kids. Then the Concorde will come back into play for a good while, I'd say.
But for a couple it's easy. We'll probably get a towbar fitted so we can get a Thule bike carrier for mountain bikes.
In short, we love it. The toilet makes it a fab van and makes you totally independent and able to go places which are wild, but also not roughing it.
Anything else you want to know, just ask!
Hi Spuffington, many thanks for comprehensive reply.
I’m going to view the Kepler Six, Kepler One and Joker City next week at a Westfalia dealer. It will be interesting to see how they compare. I was lead to believe that the City is probably a better quality product made in the Westfalia factory in Germany which is why it actually costs more than the Kepler One which is made in France in the Fleurette factory by Westfalia’s parent company Rapido. Indeed, I was told by someone I met at the Westfalia factory in Rheda-Wiedenbruck, when I visited Germany last September, that when Rapido originally took over Westfalia they intended to move all production to France. The move was resisted because of fears that quality (or perceived quality) may suffer and damage the brand.
Clearly, some new products will be made in France, leaving the original factory with eventually just OEM Ford and Mercedes conversions. The Fiat based models are now produced in Gotha, about 250km from Rheda-Wiedenbruck, and presumably the VW conversions will be also, if they are not already.
Apologies for the digression. The point I wanted to get to was to ask if you thought the quality of your Kepler was good - in particular the furniture. The point was made to me that the Kepler are perhaps a bit “glitzy” whereas the City is good old fashioned Westfalia quality. The Kepler One looks like much better value at about £5000 cheaper than the city.
Also, as we’re downsizing I wonder if we should go the whole hog and get the SWB to enjoy the full benefit of easy parking compared to the LWB. Do you find the extra 400mm an issue in daily use as the whole pint of getting rid of the Fiat would be to use the Kepler/Joker City as a daily driver?
There is of course the compromise candidate, the Mercedes Jules Verne (also built in France), which is between the Kepler and the City at 5.14m, i.e. 250mm longer than the City. But I seem to remember reading that you weren’t that impressed when you looked at one. The interior is much the same if not identical to the Kepler. I have a Dutch friend who has run campervans for over 30 years and will only buy Mercedes. Was there anything in particular that persuaded to go VW?
Apologies for all the questions. As Westfalias are such comparatively expensive ‘vans (especially here in the UK with the dreadful exchange rate against the Euro set by Westfalia at 1.10 Euro to GBP) I’ve got to get it right this time.
I’m going to view the Kepler Six, Kepler One and Joker City next week at a Westfalia dealer. It will be interesting to see how they compare. I was lead to believe that the City is probably a better quality product made in the Westfalia factory in Germany which is why it actually costs more than the Kepler One which is made in France in the Fleurette factory by Westfalia’s parent company Rapido. Indeed, I was told by someone I met at the Westfalia factory in Rheda-Wiedenbruck, when I visited Germany last September, that when Rapido originally took over Westfalia they intended to move all production to France. The move was resisted because of fears that quality (or perceived quality) may suffer and damage the brand.
Clearly, some new products will be made in France, leaving the original factory with eventually just OEM Ford and Mercedes conversions. The Fiat based models are now produced in Gotha, about 250km from Rheda-Wiedenbruck, and presumably the VW conversions will be also, if they are not already.
Apologies for the digression. The point I wanted to get to was to ask if you thought the quality of your Kepler was good - in particular the furniture. The point was made to me that the Kepler are perhaps a bit “glitzy” whereas the City is good old fashioned Westfalia quality. The Kepler One looks like much better value at about £5000 cheaper than the city.
Also, as we’re downsizing I wonder if we should go the whole hog and get the SWB to enjoy the full benefit of easy parking compared to the LWB. Do you find the extra 400mm an issue in daily use as the whole pint of getting rid of the Fiat would be to use the Kepler/Joker City as a daily driver?
There is of course the compromise candidate, the Mercedes Jules Verne (also built in France), which is between the Kepler and the City at 5.14m, i.e. 250mm longer than the City. But I seem to remember reading that you weren’t that impressed when you looked at one. The interior is much the same if not identical to the Kepler. I have a Dutch friend who has run campervans for over 30 years and will only buy Mercedes. Was there anything in particular that persuaded to go VW?
Apologies for all the questions. As Westfalias are such comparatively expensive ‘vans (especially here in the UK with the dreadful exchange rate against the Euro set by Westfalia at 1.10 Euro to GBP) I’ve got to get it right this time.
I think the point with the build quality will be that you’ll only know over time. It’s difficult for me to be entirely objective since I am used to motorhomes and motorhomes which are not built for lightness but quality. My current Concorde shames pretty much anything in the motorhome space; particularly its 2005 vintage but also many a new motorhome in the sub-100k category. And my Hymer before that also built from quality materials. But I’d be lying if I hadn’t seen a few veneer edges which are a little rough or had to screw back in a couple of screws from the lid of the footstool, for instance. Then again, I’ve also never seen the Joker City so can’t comment by comparison. Best for you to have a nose over both and see what you feel.
Given how much we love it, it was a resounding “no” from my girlfriend.
Good luck with the search and if you need anything else, do just ask!
SubieGeorge said:
Also, as we’re downsizing I wonder if we should go the whole hog and get the SWB to enjoy the full benefit of easy parking compared to the LWB. Do you find the extra 400mm an issue in daily use as the whole pint of getting rid of the Fiat would be to use the Kepler/Joker City as a daily driver?
In terms of size, we have no issue with it. It’s parked on the street in Frankfurt and although it fills the entire length of a normal parking bay, it’s no issue and we haven’t found ourselves restricted in going anywhere. Once on the move it feels just like a normal car and you see loads of families in Germany driving Caravelles or VW combi vans. It’s not that much longer than my 530d Touring. And my girlfriend who has never previously driven anything bigger than a Golf has no issues with it. IMO, if you’re going for a Transporter, you might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb and go for the LWB. I’d feel myself short changed by the SWB if I’m honest.SubieGeorge said:
There is of course the compromise candidate, the Mercedes Jules Verne (also built in France), which is between the Kepler and the City at 5.14m, i.e. 250mm longer than the City. But I seem to remember reading that you weren’t that impressed when you looked at one.
We were initially quite set on the Jules Verne as I liked the Mercedes drivetrain. But although the same layout, feels A LOT smaller than the VW version. Not just in length but in height also. It felt very claustrophic both with the roof up and down and the bed is also problematic for anyone larger than 5’10”. It was a complete “no go” for us and the extra space and different construction of the roof makes the VW the superior vehicle IMO.SubieGeorge said:
The interior is much the same if not identical to the Kepler. I have a Dutch friend who has run campervans for over 30 years and will only buy Mercedes. Was there anything in particular that persuaded to go VW?
I will also normally only buy Mercedes when it comes to motorhomes, but for the reasons above, the VW was the one to go for. Interestingly, it was my Uncle who got us onto the camper in the first place and he was 99% sure he’d go Mercedes. He also said “Mercedes or nothing”, but after trying out the VW, also being persuaded by the extra living space and bed, he took it for a testdrive and came back so impressed that he bought one too. You cannot believe how anti-VW he was until he testdrove it. Important IMO is the 150bhp upgrade to the 2.0TDI unit and also the DSG gearbox makes it a lovely drive.SubieGeorge said:
Apologies for all the questions. As Westfalias are such comparatively expensive ‘vans (especially here in the UK with the dreadful exchange rate against the Euro set by Westfalia at 1.10 Euro to GBP) I’ve got to get it right this time.
The other thing which got us over the line with the VW was the knowledge that VWs (whatever their coachbuilder) will always have a strong following and therefore super-strong residuals. I don’t know what the situation is now but we were told by two dealers that the waiting list was 8months and that was borne out by the face we struggled to find new ones in dealerships and the used models we saw were very close to list price. In fact, just a month ago we came back to a note on the windscreen from someone who was willing to offer us well over what we paid for it, just to get his mitts on one now. Given how much we love it, it was a resounding “no” from my girlfriend.
Good luck with the search and if you need anything else, do just ask!
Edited by Spuffington on Monday 11th June 10:31
Edited by Spuffington on Monday 11th June 10:31
Edited by Spuffington on Monday 11th June 10:32
There is a Joker here that looks decent value:-
https://www.roseisle.com/motorhome_listings/westfa...
Thought briefly about a Joker but went for a California in the end.
https://www.roseisle.com/motorhome_listings/westfa...
Thought briefly about a Joker but went for a California in the end.
That Joker looks nice and I will confess that the quality of the dashboard (comfort dash, I think) and the window & blind unit looks a cut above the Kepler. The curtains in ours aren't exactly a full black-out at night. Looks more "motorhome" than camper in terms of fit-out so I will concede that the Kepler might look a bit bling in comparison. Not sure of the storage options there - we have quite abit more storage than I can see in the photos of the Joker.
murray said:
There is a Joker here that looks decent value:-
https://www.roseisle.com/motorhome_listings/westfa...
I visited Roseisle recently and that one had just been sold. It was one of four that was part of their rental fleet. I’m reliably informed by another Westfalia dealer that a lot of the Jokers on the market are ex-rental purporting to be private users. Beware, especially at the prices being asked.https://www.roseisle.com/motorhome_listings/westfa...
murray said:
Thought briefly about a Joker but went for a California in the end.
I bought a new California back in 2007 and kept it for four years. 2007 models of the 5 cylinder diesel auto I had are fetching only 2 or 3 grand less than I got 7 years ago! I take Suffington’s point about VW residuals - I learnt the hard way. In fact I’m seriously considering buying another new California - possibly the 204ps DSG. Decent discounts are apparently available now the T6 has been out for a couple of years. What’s pushing me in that direction is that they actually look like good value compared with Westfalia VW conversions. Taking into account likely discounts, a California could be as much as £18,000 cheaper than the equivalent SWB Joker City. OK, the Cali doesn’t have a fixed toilet, a proper fridge, hot water, or quite the storage, but that is one hell of a saving.
SubieGeorge said:
OK, the Cali doesn’t have a fixed toilet, a proper fridge, hot water, or quite the storage, but that is one hell of a saving.
That's kind of the point for us. Even with 18k discount, those four items are so important that it's a complete no-go for us. But great that there's so much choice out there.
SubieGeorge said:
I bought a new California back in 2007 and kept it for four years. 2007 models of the 5 cylinder diesel auto I had are fetching only 2 or 3 grand less than I got 7 years ago!
I take Suffington’s point about VW residuals - I learnt the hard way. In fact I’m seriously considering buying another new California - possibly the 204ps DSG. Decent discounts are apparently available now the T6 has been out for a couple of years. What’s pushing me in that direction is that they actually look like good value compared with Westfalia VW conversions. Taking into account likely discounts, a California could be as much as £18,000 cheaper than the equivalent SWB Joker City. OK, the Cali doesn’t have a fixed toilet, a proper fridge, hot water, or quite the storage, but that is one hell of a saving.
We sold our previous California three years ago. Similar vehicles, now three years older, being advertised for same price we sold for three years on. We went for a private sale T6 dsg this time to hopefully minimise the depreciation even more over a new vehicle.I take Suffington’s point about VW residuals - I learnt the hard way. In fact I’m seriously considering buying another new California - possibly the 204ps DSG. Decent discounts are apparently available now the T6 has been out for a couple of years. What’s pushing me in that direction is that they actually look like good value compared with Westfalia VW conversions. Taking into account likely discounts, a California could be as much as £18,000 cheaper than the equivalent SWB Joker City. OK, the Cali doesn’t have a fixed toilet, a proper fridge, hot water, or quite the storage, but that is one hell of a saving.
TartanPaint said:
I bought an immaculate Cali T5 for £35k back in 2010. I used it as a daily driver for a year. Then went travelling with Mrs TP and lived in it for 6 months, then sold it for.... £35k.
It only cost us an oil service the whole time.
Can't argue with that.
I think a Cali is about the lowest depreciating modern vehicle you can buy. How do the Jokers or other Westfalias compare? I’d have thought they’d be a bit more tricky to sell on as even more of a niche market? It only cost us an oil service the whole time.
Can't argue with that.
troika said:
I think a Cali is about the lowest depreciating modern vehicle you can buy. How do the Jokers or other Westfalias compare? I’d have thought they’d be a bit more tricky to sell on as even more of a niche market?
I have a 2 year old Westfalia Columbus 601 (Fiat Ducato 6m van conversion) which I’ve been offered good money for - not much less than I paid for it. But that is largely because the poor exchange rate has driven Westfalia prices through the roof this year. I used to think California’s were poor value for money - they now look like a bargain compared with the Joker.I sold my Cali at 4 years old in 2011, and low mileage, for £30k! Isn’t hindsight a wonderful thing!
troika said:
I think a Cali is about the lowest depreciating modern vehicle you can buy. How do the Jokers or other Westfalias compare? I’d have thought they’d be a bit more tricky to sell on as even more of a niche market?
I have a 2 year old Westfalia Columbus 601 (Fiat Ducato 6m van conversion) which I’ve been offered good money for - not much less than I paid for it. But that is largely because the poor exchange rate has driven Westfalia prices through the roof this year. I used to think California’s were poor value for money - they now look like a bargain compared with the Joker.I sold my Cali at 4 years old in 2011, and low mileage, for £30k! Isn’t hindsight a wonderful thing!
SubieGeorge said:
SubieGeorge said:
I used to think California’s were poor value for money - they now look like a bargain compared with the Joker.
Just realised I was working off last years price list! Maybe they’re not such a bargain - over £2k more now, but still a lot less than a Joker.troika said:
I can’t believe the price of a Joker City, the Kepler One appears far better value.
I looked at the Kepler and Joker City recently and there is quite a difference in quality. The Joker is ‘proper’ Westfalia whereas the Kepler is pretty much a Rapido product. The Joker is very well thought out and, if you can live with the lack of storage, very desirable....at a price!The Kepler looks as though it is built down to a price to be as competitive as possible.
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