Mercedes Marco Polo - Thoughts
Discussion
Carbonio said:
I'll be using mine as a daily vehicle traveling around 85 miles into London and back so it's the perfect size for me.
If you are using it for commuting into a city it'd be hard to look past the petrol VW. I'm sure diesel is going to have the risk of large congestion charges with the backlash against it. Plus I can imagine the petrol engine is going to be much nicer to drive.I'm lucky enough to have access to other cars for day to day driving (and I'd consider a snotter if you can, if nothing else it'll save your van from parking dints), but trips into town when on holiday in the Ducato are a concern for me.
Mine is replacing a XC90 so the MP or VW is roughly the same size, and the XC90 is already a massive pain in the arse to park in multi stories. Parking on a day out while on holiday is one of my main worries.
Globs said:
Pricing for campers is quite interesting, I researched a bit about the difference in Class A, Class B, Class B+ and Class C campers and it does explain some of the mystery - but not all! This is what I found out:
Class A is the full custom body - like a bus, but can also be the short Hymers etc
Class B is the full van - of any size.
Class C is the cab + chassis with a caravan built on the back: cheaper for more space than class B
Class B+ is a Class C without the over-cab part.
I don't really know why the little class Bs are the same price as big class Bs, possibly economy of scale and the fact there's still only 1 fridge, 1 loo, 1 kitchen etc. For instance a Murvi Morello is cheaper than a Kepler one. But - ironically - the Morello can only transport and sleep 2 whereas the Kepler does 4.
Then the Class Cs are big and cheap as the cab+chassis base is cheap and the rest is caravan tech, so you get more space for your money, but they take more room and always look like campers. probably best to hire those.
So as a use-for-everything a small class B scores and looks the best in the drive for the 360 days a year it's not being used, but of course as soon as you want to use it as a hotel room space and layout dictate. I'm a bit torn between the small and large class Bs, the problem I have with the Class A and C is the 'camper in the drive' syndrome. Plus a small class B would actually fit in the garage LOL.
2 berth vans seems a growing market, older couples who are now child free (this will be us shortly) and don't want or need the extra seats/berths but don't want to compromise on space too much. Class A is the full custom body - like a bus, but can also be the short Hymers etc
Class B is the full van - of any size.
Class C is the cab + chassis with a caravan built on the back: cheaper for more space than class B
Class B+ is a Class C without the over-cab part.
I don't really know why the little class Bs are the same price as big class Bs, possibly economy of scale and the fact there's still only 1 fridge, 1 loo, 1 kitchen etc. For instance a Murvi Morello is cheaper than a Kepler one. But - ironically - the Morello can only transport and sleep 2 whereas the Kepler does 4.
Then the Class Cs are big and cheap as the cab+chassis base is cheap and the rest is caravan tech, so you get more space for your money, but they take more room and always look like campers. probably best to hire those.
So as a use-for-everything a small class B scores and looks the best in the drive for the 360 days a year it's not being used, but of course as soon as you want to use it as a hotel room space and layout dictate. I'm a bit torn between the small and large class Bs, the problem I have with the Class A and C is the 'camper in the drive' syndrome. Plus a small class B would actually fit in the garage LOL.
I have somewhere local that does van/caravan storage that I trust so it doesn't have to sit on the drive, although it will most of the time because I'm planning on using it for festivals, track days (that will now become weekends), weekends away, etc. It'll get use most months of the year if not most weekends.
tankplanker said:
If you are using it for commuting into a city it'd be hard to look past the petrol VW. I'm sure diesel is going to have the risk of large congestion charges with the backlash against it. Plus I can imagine the petrol engine is going to be much nicer to drive.
Theres some discussion about how they drive herehttps://www.t6forum.com/threads/petrol-engine-t6.1...
I think there's a choice of 2 petrols for VW now, I guess we'll see hybrids from other makes in a year or two (hybrid suits a van far better than petrol only IMO, due to the torque and economy).
I'm guessing Toyota will bring out the first petrol hybrid.
Globs said:
tankplanker said:
If you are using it for commuting into a city it'd be hard to look past the petrol VW. I'm sure diesel is going to have the risk of large congestion charges with the backlash against it. Plus I can imagine the petrol engine is going to be much nicer to drive.
Theres some discussion about how they drive herehttps://www.t6forum.com/threads/petrol-engine-t6.1...
I think there's a choice of 2 petrols for VW now, I guess we'll see hybrids from other makes in a year or two (hybrid suits a van far better than petrol only IMO, due to the torque and economy).
I'm guessing Toyota will bring out the first petrol hybrid.
troika said:
The rumour is that VW are stopping petrol engines on the California, having not long introduced them.
That would be the opposite of what VW are doing with their cars, doesn't seem right to me? I could see them replacing the current petrol with either an updated one or a hybrid version but not removing them from sale as I think they struggled to supply enough so demand must have been better than expected?Looking at the graphs for the 200 BHP petrol it seems to be very similar for torque as the 150 BHP diesel but manages to hold peak torque for another 1000 rpm. Granted if you needed the extra torque of the 200 BHP diesel you are going to be down 100Nm, but that has quite a narrow band for peak torque of 1000 rpm.
Petrol:
Diesel:
tankplanker said:
troika said:
The rumour is that VW are stopping petrol engines on the California, having not long introduced them.
That would be the opposite of what VW are doing with their cars, doesn't seem right to me? I could see them replacing the current petrol with either an updated one or a hybrid version but not removing them from sale as I think they struggled to supply enough so demand must have been better than expected?Looking at the graphs for the 200 BHP petrol it seems to be very similar for torque as the 150 BHP diesel but manages to hold peak torque for another 1000 rpm. Granted if you needed the extra torque of the 200 BHP diesel you are going to be down 100Nm, but that has quite a narrow band for peak torque of 1000 rpm.
Petrol:
Diesel:
https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/no-more-petro...
The big problem I have with the petrols is they are just so thirsty, which can’t be good compared to a Euro 6 diesel using much less fuel.
troika said:
Only what I’ve read on the California forum...
https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/no-more-petro...
The big problem I have with the petrols is they are just so thirsty, which can’t be good compared to a Euro 6 diesel using much less fuel.
Bizarre if VW do go down that route, the petrol is a euro 6 as well? When is Euro 7 due? Can't be till at least 2020?https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/no-more-petro...
The big problem I have with the petrols is they are just so thirsty, which can’t be good compared to a Euro 6 diesel using much less fuel.
Really depends on your mileage with the petrol. The 150 petrol is a good £3k cheaper than the 150 diesel, that buys a fair amount of fuel over three years. The 200 petrol vs. diesel is nearly a grand cheaper. I'd expect the petrol to hold its value a little better once the Gov really starts penalising diesels.
For about 10k of mileage its roughly another £400 a year for the 200 petrol vs. the diesel, or another £800 if you do 20k a year. Another ~£30 or £65 a month on fuel would be a small price to pay for me to avoid diesel, and that isn't counting the saving on purchase price or the better residual.
tankplanker said:
izarre if VW do go down that route, the petrol is a euro 6 as well? When is Euro 7 due? Can't be till at least 2020?
Really depends on your mileage with the petrol. The 150 petrol is a good £3k cheaper than the 150 diesel, that buys a fair amount of fuel over three years. The 200 petrol vs. diesel is nearly a grand cheaper. I'd expect the petrol to hold its value a little better once the Gov really starts penalising diesels.
For about 10k of mileage its roughly another £400 a year for the 200 petrol vs. the diesel, or another £800 if you do 20k a year. Another ~£30 or £65 a month on fuel would be a small price to pay for me to avoid diesel, and that isn't counting the saving on purchase price or the better residual.
There’s nothing in it price wise as you can’t configure a new diesel 150 manual, dsg only. VW are updating the specs at the moment and I think the petrols will be gone. I’ve not driven the petrol, but diesel just suits the van. Runs the parking heater for winter and diesel economy gives a good touring range per tank. I think it’s fair to say that both diesel and petrol will be gone at some point, so better just buying what works for you and enjoy it whilst you can!Really depends on your mileage with the petrol. The 150 petrol is a good £3k cheaper than the 150 diesel, that buys a fair amount of fuel over three years. The 200 petrol vs. diesel is nearly a grand cheaper. I'd expect the petrol to hold its value a little better once the Gov really starts penalising diesels.
For about 10k of mileage its roughly another £400 a year for the 200 petrol vs. the diesel, or another £800 if you do 20k a year. Another ~£30 or £65 a month on fuel would be a small price to pay for me to avoid diesel, and that isn't counting the saving on purchase price or the better residual.
troika said:
There’s nothing in it price wise as you can’t configure a new diesel 150 manual, dsg only. VW are updating the specs at the moment and I think the petrols will be gone. I’ve not driven the petrol, but diesel just suits the van. Runs the parking heater for winter and diesel economy gives a good touring range per tank. I think it’s fair to say that both diesel and petrol will be gone at some point, so better just buying what works for you and enjoy it whilst you can!
I missed that the 150 petrol is manual, but I would rather have the 200 petrol. Looking at the graphs for the 200 petrol it is very similar to the graph for the 150 diesel, just with a bigger rev range for the torque, I can't see it being that different to drive other than the 200 being noticeably quicker. the 200 diesel looks to have a very narrow peak torque band, can't say I'd be keen on that, the DSG would be forever changing gear.troika said:
The big problem I have with the petrols is they are just so thirsty, which can’t be good compared to a Euro 6 diesel using much less fuel.
Agreed, fundamentally petrol has less energy in it because it's a lighter 'oil' (less dense).That's why hybrid cars often go for Atkinson cycle engines - low power but super efficient and then the hybrid kicks in the starting torque (and regen. helps the mpg).
There's also the other small horse in the room: LPG which can save money for thirsty petrol vehicles and also add range.
Globs said:
Theres some discussion about how they drive here
https://www.t6forum.com/threads/petrol-engine-t6.1...
I think there's a choice of 2 petrols for VW now, I guess we'll see hybrids from other makes in a year or two (hybrid suits a van far better than petrol only IMO, due to the torque and economy).
I'm guessing Toyota will bring out the first petrol hybrid.
I’ve got a 204 Tsi dsg Kombi and so far am very pleased with it, bought it new in Nov 2017, it will be going in for a camper conversion with ‘Slidepods’ in Devon in April, just been for a run down to Portugal and back,it has now covered just over 5000 miles and overall mpg mainly motorway but up and down through the Cantabrian Mountain range and its returned 25-28mpg when driving at speeds of between 120 & 130 kph our 70’s range.https://www.t6forum.com/threads/petrol-engine-t6.1...
I think there's a choice of 2 petrols for VW now, I guess we'll see hybrids from other makes in a year or two (hybrid suits a van far better than petrol only IMO, due to the torque and economy).
I'm guessing Toyota will bring out the first petrol hybrid.
Very comfortable on long journeys and a nice high driving position, higher than any Range Rover .
I had previously been driving Range Rovers since 1971 and I am very happy with it for the purposes it will be used for.
I don’t think that some of these views of this vehicle are very fair especially when there are very few about and not many people have carried out a proper report based on driving over long distances apart from local small runs. Try one
troika said:
The rumour is that VW are stopping petrol engines on the California, having not long introduced them.
I can’t see this, as you can order a Diesel T6 and get a pretty quick delivery, but try and get hold of a Petrol version and now delivery dates are really getting a long waiting list.I personally know of a business that rents out 6 T6 Ocean Campers and a fleet of T6 diesel commercial vans which he is changing the whole fleet over to the T6 Petrol models, so It can’t be all bad , and I don’t believe whoever started this rumour, probably a Diesel Sniffer 😂😂😂
The VW is off our list so it’s diesel Marco Polo anyway. Very happy with the engine and gearbox in my CLS.
No need for a snotter to drive into London, I can do without the worries of breakdowns and I’m not worried about putting the miles on it. These engines and boxes are good for 300-400,000 miles in the V class.
No need for a snotter to drive into London, I can do without the worries of breakdowns and I’m not worried about putting the miles on it. These engines and boxes are good for 300-400,000 miles in the V class.
Carbonio said:
The VW is off our list so it’s diesel Marco Polo anyway. Very happy with the engine and gearbox in my CLS.
No need for a snotter to drive into London, I can do without the worries of breakdowns and I’m not worried about putting the miles on it. These engines and boxes are good for 300-400,000 miles in the V class.
Not an issue with the mileage, just with whatever hairbrained anti diesel stuff is coming from the Government/local Councils. No need for a snotter to drive into London, I can do without the worries of breakdowns and I’m not worried about putting the miles on it. These engines and boxes are good for 300-400,000 miles in the V class.
tankplanker said:
not an issue with the mileage, just with whatever hairbrained anti diesel stuff is coming from the Government/local Councils.
Not just our government, France now has 'zones' that you need badges to register for, you can't casually turn up now and drive an older diesel through Paris or Bordeaux..http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-41...
Also a push to total bans in places
http://www.france24.com/en/20141207-mayor-hidalgo-...
http://uk.businessinsider.com/madrid-mayor-car-ban...
Nice if manufacturers provided bolt-in hybrid replacements for diesels but that's not going to happen. Might be a 3rd party market for that however. VW's not too bad as I think golf petrols bolt straight into the T6
Globs said:
Cool! What route did you take out of interest (from France to Spain)?
I like a route over the pyrenees but I'd think they are all snowed in right now.
Ran down from St Malo to the Spanish / French border at Hendaye thenup through the Cantabrian Mountain range and then Salamanca, down to Seville and then across the border into Portugal.I like a route over the pyrenees but I'd think they are all snowed in right now.
Coming back ran up the motorwat to Braga then up into Galicia to see some friends in Cedeira then ran along the North coast through Gijon, stayed overnight in Santander then on up through San Sebastian across the border into France and repeat our journey down.
Globs said:
Nice if manufacturers provided bolt-in hybrid replacements for diesels but that's not going to happen. Might be a 3rd party market for that however. VW's not too bad as I think golf petrols bolt straight into the T6
The Petrol engine is the golf engine, there are two versions the 150 & the 204, mine is the 204.Gassing Station | Tents, Caravans & Motorhomes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff