Is there a god/Allah/Supreme being?
Discussion
Jinx said:
I will maintain though that logic and science fails to define our existence, it is like using a ruler to measure the beauty of a sunset.
That's a poorly thought out metaphor, you'd never measure something as subjective as beauty with a ruler. "Look at that gorgeous sunset, it's got to be 15cm" It'd never work.
andy mac said:
Surely that is down to perception? Some may find one thing beautiful, and others may not. This has nothing to do wioth creation, and a supreme being.
Down to perception? Is that not Descarte again
It was a metaphor - that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Science will eventually be able to describe existence in minute detail and yet the answers will always be a little short. "Don't stare at the finger or you will miss all the heavenly glorwy".
mechsympathy said:
I will maintain though that logic and science fails to define our existence, it is like using a ruler to measure the beauty of a sunset.
That's a poorly thought out metaphor, you'd never measure something as subjective as beauty with a ruler. "Look at that gorgeous sunset, it's got to be 15cm" It'd never work.
That was the point.
judas said:
I will maintain though that logic and science fails to define our existence, it is like using a ruler to measure the beauty of a sunset.
Whereas I maintain that the notion of a god is unnecessary to define our existence, or appreciate the beauty of a sunset. I would also add that science, if sufficiently advanced, could measure the beauty of a sunset. Whether that would be a worthwhile pursuit is another matter entirely.
I can't think of a better pursuit for science.
tvrohtvr said:
The earth is not old enough for all these lifeforms to have evolved from one so called point of origin, look around you insects, birds, mammals, fish, plants, trees, germs, bacteria, viruses, etc etc etc
Why is it not? Seems perfectly reasonable to me... Again, it's a result of our minds not truly being able to fathom time measured in millions or billions of years.
David Attenborough's attempt to put things into perspective on "Life on Earth" is probably one of the best ways, but even that doesn't really help fully. BTW, does anyone have a link to this?
Edited to add: I mean his compressing of Life on Earth into a single day, with life appearing at "X" O'Clock etc etc...
>> Edited by charlescrawley on Friday 9th July 16:24
If God, as described by Christians being a kind and mercyful all powerful being, where to create a universe, why the heck would he create a mess like this? Would he not create something neverending, filled with beings(created in his own image, remember, not with redundant bits inside that can go wrong and kill said being) filled with love for all things and incapable of hate/spite/malice/envy? Would he not make a place free from pain and suffering?
This in itself is rather compelling circumstantial evidence that if there is a God, He certainly is NOT the wonderful, kind and benevolent being most religions would have us believe. Martin.
PS - It'll be interesting to hear a reply to Robbo's post, too.
>> Edited by V6GTO on Friday 9th July 17:18
This in itself is rather compelling circumstantial evidence that if there is a God, He certainly is NOT the wonderful, kind and benevolent being most religions would have us believe. Martin.
PS - It'll be interesting to hear a reply to Robbo's post, too.
>> Edited by V6GTO on Friday 9th July 17:18
V6GTO said:
If God, as described by Christians being a kind and mercyful all powerful being, where to create a universe, why the heck would he create a mess like this? Would he not create something neverending, filled with beings(created in his own image, remember, not with redundant bits inside that can go wrong and kill said being) filled with love for all things and incapable of hate/spite/malice/envy? Would he not make a place free from pain and suffering?
This in itself is rather compelling circumstantial evidence that if there is a God, He certainly is NOT the wonderful, kind and benevolent being most religions would have us believe. Martin.
Ah, but he works in mysterious ways !
>> Edited by lunarscope on Friday 9th July 17:17
toppstuff said:
Why is there this assumption that God is by nature , interested in seeing us develop and exploit our inherent 'goodness"? Why the assumption that He is a Good Guy?
Maybe He is a just a bit grumpy sometimes, like those mortals made in His image ?
Because it is what religions preach to us!
i'll get my coat...Pigeon said:
V6GTO: pain and suffering arise because God gives us free will, which includes the freedom to act the arse.
Not in response to anyone in particular: science and religion are orthogonal.
But what about when pain and suffering arise where it was nothing to do with free will?
I think most people mature and come of age when they realise that bad things happen to good people. No doubt a crisis of faith can occur when the same thing is experienced at a personal level.
And for many, most religions fail to address this question.
Pigeon said:
V6GTO: pain and suffering arise because God gives us free will, which includes the freedom to act the arse.
Not in response to anyone in particular: science and religion are orthogonal.
What has our free will got to do with innocent babies being born into pain and suffering?.
V6GTO said:
If God, as described by Christians being a kind and mercyful all powerful being, where to create a universe, why the heck would he create a mess like this? Would he not create something neverending, filled with beings(created in his own image, remember, not with redundant bits inside that can go wrong and kill said being) filled with love for all things and incapable of hate/spite/malice/envy? Would he not make a place free from pain and suffering?
This in itself is rather compelling circumstantial evidence that if there is a God, He certainly is NOT the wonderful, kind and benevolent being most religions would have us believe. Martin.
PS - It'll be interesting to hear a reply to Robbo's post, too.
Wouldn't it just?
>> Edited by V6GTO on Friday 9th July 17:18
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