Red Ken's £5 London Daily Charge Thingy.

[Guy Humpage]

I was just reading about the proposed Five Pound charge to bring your motorcar into ''central'' London, and noticed a rather nice loophole, it says that minicabs are exempt, so all you will have to do is register as a cab (other cities charge around fifty notes) and then you can get in for free (plus, you could make a few quid on the side by picking up fares on the trip home)

[jimbo]

I thought there was no such thing as a registered mini-cab in London, which is why they are all 20 year old toyotas with illegal immigrants driving.

[Marshy]

And if the news is correct, then that charge applies to 7pm. Rather buggers up plans for a nice night in town, without worrying when the last train back to Cambridge is, etc etc. As if NCPs aren't expensive enough, or the car theives around Embankment tenacious enough.

[Nightmare]

unpopularly Im afraid I agree with this idea....... London DOES have a proper public transport system, with the single flaw of the tubes stopping at midnight.... Ignoring evening events.....during the day thousands of commuters drive in, at great cost, inconvenience and pollution....the only ones who erally need to be there are lorries, deliveries, buses and taxis - everyone else should get a tube, bus or walk - its not much effort... One sometimes wonders whether the governement has any incentive to put millions into decent public transport in the rest of the country if where it actrually does work isnt used.... er...I'll shut up now! Night p.s. I already can guess most of the 'yes, but....' questions....wonder if I'll be right

[apache]

yes but....I agree too, bet you didn't guess that one. I know it's unpopular but there are too many needless car journeys into town and a start to addressing the problem is welcome. However I am worried that it becomes the thin end of the wedge with local councils all over the place charging motorists fees to pay for restoring the local church

[nmilton]

I sort of welcome it too, but have some reservations as well. I'm sure that there's a good percentage of the people who drive to work in central London that do so because public transport is overcrowded and can be a thoroughly unpleasant experience, especially when the outside temperature creeps about 20 degrees ! If this levy helps convince the marginal users of cars that it's no longer cost effective to do so then all well and good BUT Ken and his cronies need to appreciate that the public transport system is not a limitless resource in terms of capacity and reliability. Unfortunately there will always be people who stubbornly refuse to get out of their cars and the only way I can think of dealing with these people is to actually ban cars from certain areas and only allow entry to buses, taxis or commercial vehicles with proof of a need to enter those zones.

[Paul V]

All very well but what about when they go out on strike, I use public transport but all my previous jobs in London I drove to because I could do it in half the time, and it was easier than getting a bus, train then 2 tubes. We pay our road tax we should be able to use them how we wish.

[mrtony]

Night is right once again. I'd also point out that Ken is having to do this because the government is not willing to cooperate with him on the tube, and as mayor he has very little surplus budget (or power) to do anything. Thus this money will allow him to make some actual improvements over and above keeping things afloat. I've lived around london for the last 2 years, and I never use the car to visit central london (I do pass through now and again so I'm not perfect). I think this is also a cunning way of driving out the illegal cabs which will get a load of uninsured, un mot'd cars off the streets of the capitol, which in accident costs will probably return a fair benefit too. And who knows if london can start to prove that driving everywhere isn't the only option maybe more towns will follow suit. Car ownership would drop amonst the 'i don't have any choice but to drive' group, and those of us who _like_ to drive will have more space to enjoy...... (hmmm likely i know)

[GasBlaster]

Yes, but how do you access the tube system in the first place if coming down from outside London? Don't say by rail, last time I tried from Tamworth it cost £95 'standard accomodation', the train was an hour bloody late and they wouldn't let me use my mobile phone on board! What tube station has a big enough car park to cope with commuters? Arse!

[Sparks]

Gasblaster, Off topic, I know, but I travel to London every day from Leicester. Standard return is £65. Tamworth is only just down the road! It also means I could drool over your car Sparks (still TVR-less)

[mrtony]

ouch... I got a return to leamington for about 22 quid the other weekend.... Guess it must be the time you travel. Besides theres loads of places to park on the outskirts of london, the 5 quid charge only applies to the centre, not anywhere inside the M25... (yet)

[marshy]

What we need is an orchestrated day of protest, where everybody *does* get out of their car and try to get to London via public transport. In a miserable sort of way, I think it might be quite funny to see how the infrastructure crumbles under the load...

[Sparks]

It already has. After Hatfield, I regularly got on trains which became completely full. No standing space, not even a mouse could have got on. The result? Extra strain on the power cars, which proceeded to fail at an alarming rate. And this is from the best performing train company in the country! We need much, much more of our road fund license to go on improving public transport. Sparks

[salty]

quote:Night is right once again. I'd also point out that Ken is having to do this because the government is not willing to cooperate with him on the tube, and as mayor he has very little surplus budget (or power) to do anything. Thus this money will allow him to make some actual improvements over and above keeping things afloat. I think this is also a cunning way of driving out the illegal cabs which will get a load of uninsured, un mot'd cars off the streets of the capitol, which in accident costs will probably return a fair benefit too.

Interesting....Personally very rarely drive into central London, only if I'm unfrotunate enough to have to work on Sat, so I drive in at 7/8am when the roads are empty - luckily no conjestion charges applicable. Yet again, number plate recognition debate. Unisured, un-MOT'd & un-taxed minicabs are not going to get caught. Number plate recognition relies on many things being kept up to date. If it was, why don't the DVLA get a bunch of people together (like the TV licence people), and go check - potential business opportunity - collect monies of people avoiding paying, rather than stiff the people who do even more. So yet again, the law abiding citizens get clobbered. And WHY, WHY, WHY do taxi's get benefits that drivers dont. They can use bus lanes, stop where they want, ignore many of the trafic regulations law abiding people have to, but then again, most don't speed so thats OK. Yes, I use taxi's at night, when it'll take me 20 mins in a Taxi (and 25 quid) to get home, whereas the tube is 1 hour (but I have my travelcard). The majority of taxi rides are people who don't want to endure the crappy London transport system, when they get off at train stations. Most could catch a bus or tube, but don't want to. Taxi's should have no extra rights on the roads than cars. Bus lanes should be for buses only, then they'd be used more. And why is Ken planning this when the governments PPP proposal hasn't been decided yet (personally don't think it'll improve things, no private company will invest money unless they are going to make profit one way or another). If the PPP is accepted, then will it be scrapped?

[Nobby]

Red Ken's let the power go to his head, what's this rubbish about new East London bus services...I got a brochure through recently and I've never seen such a pointless exercise! Why replace existing bus services with tram things? They seem to think journey times will be cut by 40% on existing roads, I'd like to see that. How long will a 'flexi bus' take to pull out onto a busy roundabout - they're twice as long a current buses! They have twice the seating capacity - has someone forgotten about boarding/alighting times when you're carrying that many people. I'm all for public transport but will someone in power PLEASE use some common sence! Make what we have work, don't waste untold £millions reinventing the wheel only to end up with exactly the same thing. If the gouvernment really wanted to *ENCOURAGE* people onto public transport why not make season tickets at least partly tax deductable? I'm going to bed, nobody's listening!

[Nightmare]

hey - I wasnt crucified...astounding The 'yes buts' I expected were the totally fair 'the existing london public transport systems are actually at overload point already and arent very nice either' I dont think I would agree that they arent pleasant....on the whole (and I do use them a lot) I find the tubes to be clean and comfortable. okay, it isnt as nice as my car, but it aint bad by a long stretch. maybe the £5 per person charges would be used to help expand and develop the tubes/buses even further (ooh...a flying pig) I guess Im just hoping, along with MrTony, that those who dont really care about driving wil stop doing it laeving the roads clear for us ot. Its not realistic yet, but i hope its possible... Salty...dunno mate....agree about Taxis...maybe if they didnt get the extra priveliges then they wouldnt do the job? N

[deanb]

Interesting one, this. I live & work in central London. I use both the car & tube a lot (buses less), basically using whichever is fastest for a given journey. In principle, I _might_ be prepared to pay if the streets of central London were clearer (& that means getting rid of roadhumps & stupid 1-way systems like the one in Covt Garden) _IF_ it saved me time overall. What I won't accept is average longer journey times by being forced on public transport for inconvenient trips. Strikes on public transport must also be made illegal if we cannot use alternative transport modes. I live 100yd outside the charging zone, so conceivably I'll be charged £5 to go round the block if I can't find a parking space first time! I think there will be nightmare issues around the edge of the charging zone. Luckily, all this is theoretical as there is a 90% chance they won't get either the technology or processes working ni 24 months.

[jamesc]

This charge is to pay for his new office and 1st class air fares to Cuba!

[Guy Humpage]

quote:I live 100yd outside the charging zone

Where does the zone actually start/finish? I was trying to find this out on the various news items, but of course none of them actually tell you the facts...

[trefor]

I seem to remember trucks going through the electronic tolls in Florida at 50+mph. I guessed they were competing to see who could drive through fastest. A few seconds after the truck had gone through the toll beeped it's acknowledgement. So the can work quickly ... London traffic doesn't go quite that fast so it shouldn't be a problem IF everyone has cards in their windscreens. The delay will occur when granny in her Morris Minor doesn't know. Maybe they'll let everyone through (i.e. no barrier just an overhead gantry) and send tickets to all those without the 'magnetic' pass? I can see problems ...