Apparently we are antisocial bastards...
Discussion
turbobloke said:
I'd say that increased congestion was the general idea of pinko-green traffic mismanagers in the developed worldwide scene..
have a drive around bangkok and you suddenly see why congestion is so bad in the UK.
the streets are divided into blocks like in america, however, most of the side roads are no go areas (you'd need a tank to negotiate them). but what you suddenly realise is that traffic is unable to escape from the main roads to go around the blockage.
which is exactly what you see in the UK today. so many side roads are closed or made into one way streets, traffic is unable to escape down side roads, either getting to their destination quicker, or getting around problems that are further up if there is a blockage (breakdown/accident etc). generally one small problem becomes a huge problem.
but then, the conspiracy side of me says that some people already knew and blocked off the roads deliberately.
tinman0 said:
I'd say that increased congestion was the general idea of pinko-green traffic mismanagers in the developed worldwide scene..
have a drive around bangkok and you suddenly see why congestion is so bad in the UK.
been there done that tinman0 said:Oh yes, Livingdrone and fellow non-traveller marxists were on to that years ago.
but then, the conspiracy side of me says that some people already knew and blocked off the roads deliberately.
Balmoral Green said:
And as for buses, they cause more congestion than cars.
They cause more at the moment 'cos they're all empty. Make buses pleasant to travel on and lets get the numpties on 'em. What would you rather deal with on a journey? One bus with 50 numpties on, or 50 cars all driven by one numpty apiece.
Incidentally, Birmingham has come up with a brilliant system on the A38. Make a bus lane, go the whole hog with green tarmac and lots of signs warning of dire penalties, then suspend it. Erect lots of signs saying 'Bus lane suspended' and 'Use Both Lanes'. All the numpties ignore the signs and continue to queue up in the outside lane, and people like me with more than 2 brain cells (and even when like me your still in single figure brain cell count) nip speedily past in the empty bus lane. Admittedly the system does fall down when there is the odd mega-bendy-bus with 3 people on it, but on the whole the system works brilliantly. Traffic has never flowed so quickly in and out of brum.
Bah! Environment, we all know man and nature have been locked in a titanic struggle for dominance since the dawn of time. Man gained the upper hand over the past few decades and we almost had her on her knees. But those minions of satan, the environmentalists, are working on the inside to sabtage the effort and they must be stopped! She's gained enough life back to try a few last ditch tricks to finish us off, tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanos, hurricanes ad suchlike. If we act know we can finish off mother nature and finally be rulers of the earth! Fire up that cement mixer, we need more parking lots and get the boat ready, I have some toxic waste that needs dumping. 
:maniacallaugh::strokeevilookingcat:
:maniacallaugh::strokeevilookingcat:R988 said:
Bah! Environment, we all know man and nature have been locked in a titanic struggle for dominance since the dawn of time. Man gained the upper hand over the past few decades and we almost had her on her knees. But those minions of satan, the environmentalists, are working on the inside to sabtage the effort and they must be stopped! She's gained enough life back to try a few last ditch tricks to finish us off, tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanos, hurricanes ad suchlike. If we act know we can finish off mother nature and finally be rulers of the earth! Fire up that cement mixer, we need more parking lots and get the boat ready, I have some toxic waste that needs dumping.
Another rendition of this was posted before, by another PHer, so duly acknowledged whoever you were!
George Carlin said:
We're so self-important. So self-important. Everybody's going to save something now. "Save the trees, save the bees, save the whales, save those snails." And the greatest arrogance of all: save the planet. What? Are these people kidding me? Save the planet, we don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet. We haven't learned how to care for one another, we're gonna save the planet?
I'm getting tired of that shit. Tired of that shit. I'm tired of Earth Day, I'm tired of these self-righteous environmentalists, these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren't enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world safe for their Volvos. Besides, environmentalists don't give a shit about the planet. They don't care about the planet. Not in the abstract they don't. Not in the abstract they don't. You know what they're interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat. They're worried that some day in the future, they might be personally inconvenienced. Narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesn't impress me.
Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are fd. Difference. Difference. The planet is fine. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here five and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here five and a half billion years. We've been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus five and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun?
The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles...hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worldwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages...And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet...the planet...the planet isn't going anywhere. WE ARE!
We're going away. Pack your shit, folks. We're going away. And we won't leave much of a trace, either. Thank God for that. Maybe a little styrofoam. Maybe. A little styrofoam. The planet'll be here and we'll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet'll shake us off like a bad case of fleas. A surface nuisance.
You wanna know how the planet's doing? Ask those people at Pompeii, who are frozen into position from volcanic ash, how the planet's doing. You wanna know if the planet's all right, ask those people in Mexico City or Armenia or a hundred other places buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble, if they feel like a threat to the planet this week. Or how about those people in Kilowaia, Hawaii, who built their homes right next to an active volcano, and then wonder why they have lava in the living room.
The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after we're gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, 'cause that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed, and if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new pardigm: the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn't share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn't know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, "Why are we here?" Plastic...asshole.
So, the plastic is here, our job is done, we can be phased out now. And I think that's begun. Don't you think that's already started? I think, to be fair, the planet sees us as a mild threat. Something to be dealt with. And the planet can defend itself in an organized, collective way, the way a beehive or an ant colony can. A collective defense mechanism. The planet will think of something. What would you do if you were the planet? How would you defend yourself against this troublesome, pesky species? Let's see... Viruses. Viruses might be good. They seem vulnerable to viruses. And, uh...viruses are tricky, always mutating and forming new strains whenever a vaccine is developed. Perhaps, this first virus could be one that compromises the immune system of these creatures. Perhaps a human immunodeficiency virus, making them vulnerable to all sorts of other diseases and infections that might come along. And maybe it could be spread sexually, making them a little reluctant to engage in the act of reproduction.
Well, that's a poetic note. And it's a start. And I can dream, can't I? See I don't worry about the little things: bees, trees, whales, snails. I think we're part of a greater wisdom than we will never understand. A higher order. Call it what you want. Know what I call it? The Big Electron. The Big Electron...Whoooa. Whoooa. Whoooa. It doesn't punish, it doesn't reward, it doesn't judge at all. It just is. And so are we. For a little while.
>> Edited by turbobloke on Wednesday 4th January 00:05
heebeegeetee said:
And as for buses, they cause more congestion than cars.
They cause more at the moment 'cos they're all empty. Make buses pleasant to travel on and lets get the numpties on 'em. What would you rather deal with on a journey? One bus with 50 numpties on, or 50 cars all driven by one numpty apiece.
Incidentally, Birmingham has come up with a brilliant system on the A38. Make a bus lane, go the whole hog with green tarmac and lots of signs warning of dire penalties, then suspend it. Erect lots of signs saying 'Bus lane suspended' and 'Use Both Lanes'. All the numpties ignore the signs and continue to queue up in the outside lane, and people like me with more than 2 brain cells (and even when like me your still in single figure brain cell count) nip speedily past in the empty bus lane. Admittedly the system does fall down when there is the odd mega-bendy-bus with 3 people on it, but on the whole the system works brilliantly. Traffic has never flowed so quickly in and out of brum.
Birmingham once had the right idea but had to create congestion fast to ensure the authoritarian lunatic left lies about more roads = more congestion was complied with. Smashing the congestionisation movement is essential before the end of this decade to allow continuance of econimic success.
In addition Bus cancer is likely to be biggest source of future compensation claims since Asbestosis. Towns and cities that are currently awash with ecoterrorists will in the next 30 years face massive claims and bancruptcy. The pension gap is not an issue but bus cancer is and its preventable. All we need to do is shout about it loud enough. Ban the bus, ban it now before it kills us all.
Don't know if you have seen this one....... 
www.monbiot.com/archives/2005/12/22/paul-smith-and-safe-speed-the-self-exposure-of-a-crank/
>> Edited by J-Skid on Wednesday 4th January 11:16
www.monbiot.com/archives/2005/12/22/paul-smith-and-safe-speed-the-self-exposure-of-a-crank/
>> Edited by J-Skid on Wednesday 4th January 11:16
Suckmychrsitmas said:
What are those two toxins btw?
Then invest in buses that run on cleaner fuels, e.g. propane and compressed natural gas.
No, best to just let them go the way of yesterdays news in the traditional way. We no longer have steam trains. Filthy diseasels must be scrapped no matter what and there is no reason to encourage empty buses regardless of power source.
The current strategy of the green filth is to divide the wealthy from the moderately impoverished and the disabled by increasing their benefits. The green vermin then champion yawn blah blah (public transport) on the basis of all kinds of lies such as inward investment, need and desire. Coupled with other bits of Stalinist control freakery such as recycling and global warming terrorism the overall picture looks remarkably similar to religious self flagellation. Well, blessed are the poor because they spending their extra benefits on taxis and beer. Now Netto sell outdoor Christmas lights the chavs are doing their bit for energy conservation too.
So stealing from the rich and giving to the poor means they want cars and foreign holidays not better busses and nicer sandals. The green dream of a mediocre existance for everyone will never be realised.turbobloke said:
What are those two toxins btw?
And that's not the end of bus hypocrisy. I used to work on them (a holiday job but I got to know quite a bit about them). I know things about buses that even the bus companies wouldn't tell the council, let alone the Greens:
-They're not catalysed. They are MOT'd with cats in place but they are removed during service because they sap too much power and increase fuel consumption.
-That fuel consumption, by the way, is about 8mpg. With cats it's 4.
-If the average car does 35 mpg and carries 2 people plus luggage, then your average bus has to have at least 14 people plus all those people's weekly shopping on board to make it as efficient per person in terms of fuel use as the average car. You'd need to double that to make any significant difference, so buses would have to drive around at all times with 30 people on board plus a whole deck full of shopping.
-Even then, in terms of emissions it would still be better for the environment if everyone called taxis.
-And that isn't even factoring in the increased emissions and fuel use buses impose on other road users through the congestion they create. I can't even begin to imagine what kind of a mess those new London 'bendy buses' are going to make - total gridlock whenever it tries to go round a corner, probably.
-Also (and this is something I know very well as I worked in First's scheduling dept for a bit), it is impossible to make a bus run on time as it is in traffic. No matter how many vip, sorry, bus lanes you put in, it still has to negotiate busy junctions and two-lane roads. With other vehicles on those roads, there is no way you can accurately plan bus arrival or departure times, and as such they cannot be considered even approaching a reliable transport method.
-When you see a bus with 'sorry, not in service' on it, the chances are that there is no room for it at the depot but no number to assign to it either, so it is sent round on hour after hour of vip-laned, 8mpg passengerless trawling until either a number or a depot bay becomes free. That is the exact equivalent of driving round a city's bus lanes in a 1959 Cadillac Eldorado on your own for the hell of it, during rush hour.
-Any accidents caused by buses (and there are hundreds every year, some fatal), are lumped in with the general RTA stats by the government. As a result, motorists are being blamed for bus accidents, and if that means enough RTAs at one point, in one go, by a bus that means a scamera. Buses speed all the time too (some don't even have functioning speedos), and the speeding fines miraculously disappear too.
In short, buses are the very antithesis of 'sustainable' transport. They are a relic of a time when no-one could afford a car and entire communities worked in the same place, like a mine or a shipyard. They come from a time when 'environmentalism' was just another word in the dictionary, and the only reason why politicians like them is because they are cheap-ish and offer a chance to control people's movements.
Scrap them. En masse. If the commuter route is important enough install a Japanese-style aeriel maglev monorail or off-roadway tramline. Replace them with comfortable, all-seater, all-seatbelted minibuses for the elderly, the disabled and the students... and sit back and watch as road traffic flows smoothly once again.
Suckmychrsitmas said:Why not invest in community taxis instead.
What are those two toxins btw?
Then invest in buses that run on cleaner fuels, e.g. propane and compressed natural gas.
Buses will always go nowhere near where a lot of people want to be, are capable of leaving journeys to be randomly controlled by the state and / or trade union member (in)activity, cost the earth
, are less convenient because they only take a fixed number of people between sets of fixed places at fixed times (notwithstanding earlier problems), are unpleasant to use because of burger eating, music playing, foul smelling, loudmouth, drunken and generally un-inclusive fellow travellers, and are basically a socialist down-levelling tool that has little to do with 'quality' transport in any real sense of the word. You get a washing machine and stop going to the launderette. You get a car and stop going by bus. It's part of growing up. Those who cannot do so would be better served, for all the above reasons, by well run community taxis. Air quality would be vastly improved by the lack of large diesel engines stop-starting along High Streets everywhere.
All forms of public transport, apart from the conveyance of goods, are a necessary evil to be tolerated not celebrated. Private transport has far more to do with those excellent concepts anathema to socialist lowest common denominator peddlers, namely 'individuality' and 'aspiration'.
Who the hell would actually WANT to travel by bus, given a real choice?
turbobloke said:
Who the hell would actually WANT to travel by bus, given a real choice?
My Mum. Seriously. She loves all public services blindly and condemns anyone who argues otherwise in a voice that could shatter glass. She sees car ownership as a bothersome chore to be avoided at all costs, which is why she resents her car, ignores non-immobilising breakdowns and is actually willing it to die on her so she can get the bus again.
And no, I'm not joking.
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