Discussion
I like your jogic! 
Not exactly, no. I would choose then Masaratti over the Jaguar, for two main reasons. Firstly, its a Masaratti, and the badge carries a pedigree far in excess of anything that Mr Lyons boys have ever been able to manage, and secondly, its a Masaratti, and therefore in my opinion exotica, rather than an fake walnut clad armchair my grandad would polish on a sunday morning before trundling off to the bowls club.
IMO there are lots of better cars you can buy for £60k, if I had the money I wouldn't buy a ferrari as I think they are too over rated (eg. Lottery win, "I Must buy a Ferrari) and I mean no offence to Ferrari owners, I think they're a fabulous car, if I had 'the money' and alot more I'd probably would buy a ferrari, most likely an F40.
I hate badge snobbery, give me a skoda over a vauxhall anyday.
I hate badge snobbery, give me a skoda over a vauxhall anyday.
Simonelite501 said: Not exactly, no. I would choose then Masaratti over the Jaguar, for two main reasons. Firstly, its a Masaratti, and the badge carries a pedigree far in excess of anything that Mr Lyons boys have ever been able to manage, and secondly, its a Masaratti, and therefore in my opinion exotica, rather than an fake walnut clad armchair my grandad would polish on a sunday morning before trundling off to the bowls club.
Both those are based on the Badge and nothing else.. hmmm... are you the type or person who would buy a BMW 316 instead of a Top of the range Mondeo?
Wouldn't touch a BMW with yours! Badge snobbery exists and you are as guilty as anyone else. Everyone wants a great car, but not if it is assosiated with something that they think proves derogatoriy to their standing in some shape or form. Thats what great names are based on, not the fact that they produce great cars. Take Proton for instance. No one wants to buy a Lotus from a Proton dealer, but its the same great car, its just the Proton dealer doesn't have the same Kudos as the Lotus dealer. The fact that your likely to get better and probably cheaper service from the Proton deal is irelivant. I really don't give a toss what car I drive, at the moment, due to the sale of my Lotus and imminent delivery of my Lamboghini, I drive a Volvo and an old Kit car, but badge snobbery is a massive part of vehicle sales, like it or not. Graham, as for Skoda or Vauxhall, not much difference there is there?
Editted to say - unless its a Lotus Carlton/Omega.
>> Edited by Simonelite501 on Monday 9th December 00:33
Simonelite501 said:
Graham, as for Skoda or Vauxhall, not much difference there is there?
What kit car do u drive?
I would buy an Elise even if it had a proton badge on it!
I have an old Dutton Phaeton S3, complete with a badly stared body and a very shabby cloth roof. The nice thing about this car is that it goes like stink. I use it for sprints and hillclimbs. Due very soon is a Lamboghini Countach LP400S, or rather a Mirage copy of a LP400S, with a 3.9ltr Rover block and Renualt transaxle. Just for the pose of course!
(not that i'd want to lick a german...eugh 
)But isn't that the point - Clarkson is the last bastion of un-PC-ness that we have on the television & chose this car for 3 reasons - to be un-PC, because it is a real challenge, and because it's funny.
Simonelite501 said:But it has to be argued that there must be a more deserving case out there,
But that's not as much of a challenge
Personally, I would much rather have seen the guys at Lotus start with a car who's owner had really tried, albeit with a limited buget, to improve its performance and handling characteristics.
I think he has built his career on having opinionated rants, and not being afraid to call a spade a spade - e.g. Just cos it's a Maserati doesn't mean it's good (even if previous ones have been)
As for the Badge snobbery thing, well yes of course it is! What do you think Mr Clarkson, or any of his contemporaries have built there careers on?
I think you are right that badge snobbery influences many/most car buyers shelling out that much money, but from looking at the cars in your profile I had assumed you were above such things & had cars on the basis of their ability rather than their badge.
I would wager that Badge snobbery has an enormous part to play in the purchace of any vehicle,and right or wrong, my £60,000 would be in the pocket of the guy selling the Massa long before I'd even opened the Jaguar brochure. All my opinion, and due to the lack of £60,000, hypothetical of course.
2 years ago (when economy seemed good, I still had a job, etc etc) I was in the lucky position to be able to spend £70K on a car. Top of my list was a 996 Carrera 4, then a Maserati Coupe (boomerang lights).
The Porsche just wasn't exciting enough & didn't seem that much better than my (then) current Prodrive Impreza. The Maserati, while it looked and sounded nice, just seemed too unwieldy & I was put off by cost of servicing (which also put me off a Ferrari, along with reliability worries)
After having my childhood dream of a 911 shattered, I ended up going for a Chimaera, an Impreza P1 and pocketing the change. The Chimaera gives me the punch I imagined a Porsche would give me, along with feeling that you are driving it, rather than any PSM system; the P1 is just surefooted, without having to resort to any trickery.
So I didn't buy a badge, I bought a car on it's own merits (OK 2 cars) - you might argue that the Impreza is now a cult icon, but when I got my 1st one almost 8 years ago, it still had a fairly staid "farmers car" image to go with a Japmobile blobby bland exterior & a naff plasticky interior.
*phew* That rambled on longer than I intended.....sorry
Couple of points.... I'd bet that Skodas have won their class in the RAC rally more often than Vauxhalls... there is a link between the Porsche 911 and the Skoda Estelle that is more than the layout of the engine/ gearbox: something to do with a guy called Hans Ledwinka, another called Ferdinand Porsche and some geezer called Adolf Hitler. Ledwinka was a Czech who's brains were picked by Porsche during the development of the VW Beetle for Adolf. The 911 is, of course, a Beetle on steroids. Ledwinka worked for Tatra (whose Model 87 had a V8 hanging out the back while the Beetle/911 was still in nappies), and had helped Skoda come up with their cars in the '30's....
I know a guy who bought a Maserati in the 80's. It was so bad he stuck it on a flatbed and parked it outside the dealers in London with a big sign on it saying what a load of crap the car was, and how badly the dealer & Maserati had treated him. It made the national press at the time. Chris Joseph of Hook Advertising if anyone wants to research it....
Ian
Edited 'cos I mis-spelled Porsche and somebody would pick me up on it...
>> Edited by wedg1e on Monday 9th December 04:02
I know a guy who bought a Maserati in the 80's. It was so bad he stuck it on a flatbed and parked it outside the dealers in London with a big sign on it saying what a load of crap the car was, and how badly the dealer & Maserati had treated him. It made the national press at the time. Chris Joseph of Hook Advertising if anyone wants to research it....
Ian
Edited 'cos I mis-spelled Porsche and somebody would pick me up on it...
>> Edited by wedg1e on Monday 9th December 04:02
Simonelite501 said: I would wager that Badge snobbery has an enormous part to play in the purchace of any vehicle,and right or wrong, my £60,000 would be in the pocket of the guy selling the Massa long before I'd even opened the Jaguar brochure.
What kind of obscure logic is that? That statement is almost as good as the bloke of drivel, when they compared the ST170 to the Cooper S... "well I think the Focus is a better car, but I'm going to vote for the Mini becuase it's not a Ford".
Oh well done that man! WHY do people seek to buy an inferior car as it has a better badge on it. Even the recent test on Top Gear showed that the Mondeo was a better car than the opposition... yet people would rather spend their cash on a BMW... "becuase it's a BMW" and "it's not as common as a Ford"... pardon? More bloody Beemers in our car park than Fords... and I work for Ford!
Might I suggest that it's that kind of blinkered view that contributed towards the downfall of the British motoring industry...?
wedg1e said: Couple of points.... I'd bet that Skodas have won their class in the RAC rally more often than Vauxhalls... there is a link between the Porsche 911 and the Skoda Estelle that is more than the layout of the engine/ gearbox:
The Skoda Estelle is only a licence built 1960's Renault.
I really enjoyed last nights show and considered it the best of the series. I freely admit that I find Clarkson entertaining although I can understand why others find him irritating - he does seem to posses more than a little of the playground comedian type attitude.
The show format I find compulsive as it seems to retain the same amount of test drive material as a half hour show but without the sense of rushing that I used to find with the old Top Gear. The padding material, e.g. fastest whitevanman, star in a car and so on helps set the pace.
As for the "Maxxed-up" Lada this was fun and also insightful, although I felt a little more detail would have helped add value to the article.
Steve.
The show format I find compulsive as it seems to retain the same amount of test drive material as a half hour show but without the sense of rushing that I used to find with the old Top Gear. The padding material, e.g. fastest whitevanman, star in a car and so on helps set the pace.
As for the "Maxxed-up" Lada this was fun and also insightful, although I felt a little more detail would have helped add value to the article.
Steve.
Could those extolling the virtues of Maserati, because of its name, please at least spell it vaguely correctly?
It's hard to take someone's opinion of a marque's pedigree too seriously if they can't even write it.
Personally, I bough a Seat over a VW or a 3 series as, for the money, the Seat was the better car.
On the other hand, I do get some pleasure from having a car parked in my garage which has Mr Chapman's initials on it. The pedigree, as long as there's enough continuity, and continuing comittment to the ideals is a nice thing to have.
It's hard to take someone's opinion of a marque's pedigree too seriously if they can't even write it.
Personally, I bough a Seat over a VW or a 3 series as, for the money, the Seat was the better car.
On the other hand, I do get some pleasure from having a car parked in my garage which has Mr Chapman's initials on it. The pedigree, as long as there's enough continuity, and continuing comittment to the ideals is a nice thing to have.
Guys! I can't believe you are arguing about the Maser/Jag thing on the basis of Clarksons opinion. I think he's a great laugh but that doesn't mean I always agree with what he says. Having had a go in Maser 3200 (the twin turbo one with auto box) I can definitley say it was as quick as a Cerbera and the handling was fine too. Inside it was beautifully built and equipped and you could actually seat, in comfort, two adults in the back. I agree that the paddle shift gearbox is vile, but I think that in any car, it's vile.
Basically, it's silly to take anyone's personal opinion as gospel, even someone like Clarkson. The Maser is miles better than any Jaguar (IMO) and it's a second hand bargain to boot. You can have a mint 20K miler for around 30K now, which is excellent.
Great show last night, I thought. And I also thought the Lotus Lada was brilliant fun. Never mind it costing £100k, Lotus gained 20 minutes prime time TV advertising on the BBC which is worth more than £100K!!
Basically, it's silly to take anyone's personal opinion as gospel, even someone like Clarkson. The Maser is miles better than any Jaguar (IMO) and it's a second hand bargain to boot. You can have a mint 20K miler for around 30K now, which is excellent.
Great show last night, I thought. And I also thought the Lotus Lada was brilliant fun. Never mind it costing £100k, Lotus gained 20 minutes prime time TV advertising on the BBC which is worth more than £100K!!
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