Dealer attitudes
Discussion
lazyitus said:
Anyway, enough of all this arguing amongst friends. Its getting a bit tetchy and we're all supposed to be in a friendly environment here on PH.
As a way off offering peace to all, you're all welcome round mine this bank holiday for a BBQ.
I'll be selling Hot Dogs with an introductory APR of 21.9% and Burgers are free with every bottle of coke purchased above £19.
As a way off offering peace to all, you're all welcome round mine this bank holiday for a BBQ.
I'll be selling Hot Dogs with an introductory APR of 21.9% and Burgers are free with every bottle of coke purchased above £19.
Can I have a 'test try' please?
My missus had a terrible experience with a Toyota salesman when wanting to test drive an MR2. Patronising old fool, wanted her to book a test drive for another day as all the salesmen were "busy". No, they were all stood around doing 
all. Implied he didn't think she could afford the car, despite her rolling up in a 6 months old 206GTI. Kept talking to me and not her although we made it clear it was her that was looking for the new car and would be paying for it.
Well, he lost the sale, and apparantly his job later as we complained to the manager about his attitude.
all. Implied he didn't think she could afford the car, despite her rolling up in a 6 months old 206GTI. Kept talking to me and not her although we made it clear it was her that was looking for the new car and would be paying for it. Well, he lost the sale, and apparantly his job later as we complained to the manager about his attitude.
ohopkins said:
Phil Hopkins said:
Some good stuff
In fact, if the salesman seems to have your best interests in mind on any part of the deal, you should subject this to extra scrutiny.
Phil Hopkins said:
You shouldn't have to force him to pay attention to you or give you a test drive, he should do these things automatically
The whole point of this thread is that you do, or be forced to compromise on your choice of car and engage in what is essentially a childish game of one upmanship.
No, as i started the thread, the point about it was that i could not believe quite HOW BAD a dealership, especially a main dealership could be.
I have not spited myself by not buying a BMW - i had plenty of cars on my wishlist; what i wanted to come over to anyone, and not just dealers, was that a good customer experience AND a good product wins the day. I had two bad customer experiences with 2/3 BMW dealerships in my area, and the 3rd had not been recommended either, so that was my reason for moving away from BMW , as well as the fact that i got a cracking deal off a much newer car with better trade in etc.
I wasnt having a go at dealers per se, just wanted to share frustration and bewilderment that service in this day and age can still be SO bad especially when you are spending a large amount of cash.
I had a strange experience at a Vauxhall garage - the salesman was really nice and couldn't do enough for us, he knew bugger all about the cars though - we took a test drive in a Signum and I asked if it had sat-nav having seen a button marked 'nav' and he insisted that it didn't, so I press it "at the roundabout take the 1st exit...". After I'd looked around about 3 of the cars on the forecourt I'd managed to suss out what spec's had sat nav and what didn't so I was slightly suprised at that as I'd have thought it was a good selling point.
The best service I had was at Jaguar but I suspect that was cos' I turned up in a Jag as I've heard the usual stories of being ignored about that particular dealership.
The best service I had was at Jaguar but I suspect that was cos' I turned up in a Jag as I've heard the usual stories of being ignored about that particular dealership.
You know, the funny thing is, that your all right.
Having worked for several main dealers and independents, I can say with confidence that there really isn't a set level of service, like so many, before I joined the motortrade, I popped into my local dealer, wanting to buy a Corsa for the other half, now, I didn't have time for a test drive, and I'm no good at haggling, so I found the car in the showroom that I wanted and stood by it, brochure in hand, knew what I wanted, and tried to make eye contact with a salesman, twenty minutes later, still trying to get the attention of a salesman, yes I was dressed in Jeans and T-Shirt, I was having a day off, I just wanted to buy the car I was standing next to, I couldn't even get the receptionist to get off the phone from her boyfriend to find someone for me, half an hour later, walked out and bought a Micra.
When I joined the trade, I promised I'd never ignore anyone, and so far I think I've done alright, never knowling lied or misled and always advised people about known faults, and by being honest, and working hard, I moved onwards and upwards, untill now I couldn't be happier.
Although the point about test drives, is a good one, when I was selling VX220's, most of my customers were between 20 and 30 years old, this was the core market for that type of car, most of them didn't have large mortgages and a family, so they had the disposable income to afford nice cars, so I wouldn't hesitate in giving a 20 year old my undivided attention, however for 6 months I worked for Mazda, and the dealer principle made it really difficult for us to offer test drives in RX8, you had to be dressed properly, arrive in a suitable car, had to be over 25, had to have your driving license, and even then we had to go and ask him for the keys, dispite me telling him that its not even a real performance car and you couldn't crash it if you tried, he wouldn't flex, I think it made us look like idiots, and we lost a lot of business as a result.
So I think what some of you have suggested about, getting a feeling for the individual salesperson and the dealership as a whole is the best idea, if it doesn't feel right buying a car from them then don't, there are plenty of honest, hardworking salesmen out there all happy to find you the right car and look after you properly, I'd even change a light bulb if someone asked me.
Having worked for several main dealers and independents, I can say with confidence that there really isn't a set level of service, like so many, before I joined the motortrade, I popped into my local dealer, wanting to buy a Corsa for the other half, now, I didn't have time for a test drive, and I'm no good at haggling, so I found the car in the showroom that I wanted and stood by it, brochure in hand, knew what I wanted, and tried to make eye contact with a salesman, twenty minutes later, still trying to get the attention of a salesman, yes I was dressed in Jeans and T-Shirt, I was having a day off, I just wanted to buy the car I was standing next to, I couldn't even get the receptionist to get off the phone from her boyfriend to find someone for me, half an hour later, walked out and bought a Micra.
When I joined the trade, I promised I'd never ignore anyone, and so far I think I've done alright, never knowling lied or misled and always advised people about known faults, and by being honest, and working hard, I moved onwards and upwards, untill now I couldn't be happier.
Although the point about test drives, is a good one, when I was selling VX220's, most of my customers were between 20 and 30 years old, this was the core market for that type of car, most of them didn't have large mortgages and a family, so they had the disposable income to afford nice cars, so I wouldn't hesitate in giving a 20 year old my undivided attention, however for 6 months I worked for Mazda, and the dealer principle made it really difficult for us to offer test drives in RX8, you had to be dressed properly, arrive in a suitable car, had to be over 25, had to have your driving license, and even then we had to go and ask him for the keys, dispite me telling him that its not even a real performance car and you couldn't crash it if you tried, he wouldn't flex, I think it made us look like idiots, and we lost a lot of business as a result.
So I think what some of you have suggested about, getting a feeling for the individual salesperson and the dealership as a whole is the best idea, if it doesn't feel right buying a car from them then don't, there are plenty of honest, hardworking salesmen out there all happy to find you the right car and look after you properly, I'd even change a light bulb if someone asked me.
Had a test drive at a Nissan Dealer a few weeks ago, was looking at trying a 2nd hand 350Z as have always liked the look of them and was interested in a possible change.
In accordance with the name and shame policy I’ll not mention names but the main agent I went too was awful. No one could point me in the right direction when I got there. The guy I’d booked the test drive with was dealing with another customer. (no problem, it's all part of working in these types of places) So I was given the worst car salesman I’ve ever met. I've bought many cars in the past 17 years of driving and have dealt with many car traders in that time. I have, on the whole found them courteous and professional. But this guy was a tw4t!
Walking out to the car on the forecourt he started by saying something along the lines of:
"I really want one of these, the good thing is I get to drive them when they come in as part ex's. Had this one's tyres locking up a bit when I took it out, I was racing this VR6 down the carriageway and this idiot pulled out right in front of me. All the ABS came on and that, I was well impressed."
I was already 'impressed' as you can imagine. When I mentioned the mild scratches on both rear arches and asked if they'd be able to get them sorted out for me if I was interested in the car:
"That would be well expensive, you'd have to respray the complete rear wings. Don't think we'd do that. The sales manager will probably tell you to take as is, or leave it."
Any paint shop could have 'cut' it back and it would have been fine, but I wasn't going to argue with such an 'informed' salesman. So, I asked if I can take the car for a drive, we could discuss the scratches further if i wanted the car:
"Yeah, I won’t worry about the insurance form, it'll be alright, we'll just head out."
Then he leaves me in the car with the engine running at the exit of the forecourt to go and get the trade plates that he's forgotten. Then when he returns back to the car, we tear off up the road and he says something like:
Sorry about the aggressive gear changes, I can't help it with this car. I love driving these things. I'm used to the 1.2 Micra that's one of our demo cars that I use."
He pulls into a lay-by 5 minutes later after some very dubious gear changes and interesting driving technique. So we then swap seats. I pull away and drive up the road. Then look at the petrol gauge. It has the warning light on and is well under the minimum mark and we're heading off into the countryside away from petrol stations. 'Have we got enough fuel' I ask:
"Oh, probably not, I should have checked that, we better turn round and go back. If we run out it will be well embarrassing.
So I actually got to do about 1.5 miles in the car with me actually driving.
But the salesman then says to me: "So are you gonna park it in the sold bay or put it back on the forecourt?".......... Well after that exhaustive and informed test drive I felt I had to reply "Forecourt". I was astounded by his 'closing' question given how smoothly everything was going. Needless to say, i didn't use them for any purchase.
I think the 350Z's a very nice car. When I bought my first (Series 1 ) and then second (Series 2) Elise. I new I had to have the car after each test drive! My head and heart were set. With the 350Z it just didn't make me grim like an idiot and I didn't get an urge to get my chequebook out. So something else wasn't right, horses for courses and all that!
In accordance with the name and shame policy I’ll not mention names but the main agent I went too was awful. No one could point me in the right direction when I got there. The guy I’d booked the test drive with was dealing with another customer. (no problem, it's all part of working in these types of places) So I was given the worst car salesman I’ve ever met. I've bought many cars in the past 17 years of driving and have dealt with many car traders in that time. I have, on the whole found them courteous and professional. But this guy was a tw4t!
Walking out to the car on the forecourt he started by saying something along the lines of:
"I really want one of these, the good thing is I get to drive them when they come in as part ex's. Had this one's tyres locking up a bit when I took it out, I was racing this VR6 down the carriageway and this idiot pulled out right in front of me. All the ABS came on and that, I was well impressed."
I was already 'impressed' as you can imagine. When I mentioned the mild scratches on both rear arches and asked if they'd be able to get them sorted out for me if I was interested in the car:
"That would be well expensive, you'd have to respray the complete rear wings. Don't think we'd do that. The sales manager will probably tell you to take as is, or leave it."
Any paint shop could have 'cut' it back and it would have been fine, but I wasn't going to argue with such an 'informed' salesman. So, I asked if I can take the car for a drive, we could discuss the scratches further if i wanted the car:
"Yeah, I won’t worry about the insurance form, it'll be alright, we'll just head out."
Then he leaves me in the car with the engine running at the exit of the forecourt to go and get the trade plates that he's forgotten. Then when he returns back to the car, we tear off up the road and he says something like:
Sorry about the aggressive gear changes, I can't help it with this car. I love driving these things. I'm used to the 1.2 Micra that's one of our demo cars that I use."
He pulls into a lay-by 5 minutes later after some very dubious gear changes and interesting driving technique. So we then swap seats. I pull away and drive up the road. Then look at the petrol gauge. It has the warning light on and is well under the minimum mark and we're heading off into the countryside away from petrol stations. 'Have we got enough fuel' I ask:
"Oh, probably not, I should have checked that, we better turn round and go back. If we run out it will be well embarrassing.
So I actually got to do about 1.5 miles in the car with me actually driving.
But the salesman then says to me: "So are you gonna park it in the sold bay or put it back on the forecourt?".......... Well after that exhaustive and informed test drive I felt I had to reply "Forecourt". I was astounded by his 'closing' question given how smoothly everything was going. Needless to say, i didn't use them for any purchase.
I think the 350Z's a very nice car. When I bought my first (Series 1 ) and then second (Series 2) Elise. I new I had to have the car after each test drive! My head and heart were set. With the 350Z it just didn't make me grim like an idiot and I didn't get an urge to get my chequebook out. So something else wasn't right, horses for courses and all that!
"You do those things because you HAVE to as part of the commercial reality of running a good business, not because you WANT to.
If you could sell every car with no test drive, above book and with a favourable finance package you would."
That is a ridiculous statement. It is like saying if you didn't have to get in the morning and go to work but get paid for it then you would!
"The balance of power is enforced only by your customers."
Well done, but also remember that when your p/x price is low, it is you (the general public) that dictate the value of ALL cars. Glass's guide and CAP are both based upon actual retail sales. You can't demand top book for your old shitbox and then buy your new car at trade.
I would not buy any car or buy from any dealer that did not allow me a full test drive and then left me alone to have a good look round the car.
Hats off to our local Ford dealer, Allen Ford in Rugby who did exactly that when we bought the Focus, let us both drive it, answered our questions then left us alone to chat about it and didn't breathe down our necks, we were there for two hours before we finally bought the car.
Hats off to our local Ford dealer, Allen Ford in Rugby who did exactly that when we bought the Focus, let us both drive it, answered our questions then left us alone to chat about it and didn't breathe down our necks, we were there for two hours before we finally bought the car.
PhillT said:
King herald said:
Oh, I'm sorry. Maybe I overlooked it in your 200 lines of text. Please elaborate. I thought the general jist was that you dressed like a chav and nobody ran around treating you like royalty?
I'm quite incensed by this. How I dress should have no relation on how I'm perceived and treated. I don't wear a suit to work - as I write this I'm in a long-sleeved t-shirt, jeans and skate trainers. Such attire reflects my lifestyle, which is perfectly respectable. I have several hoodies in my wardrobe, and would have no problem wearing one to by a car, a house or my weekly food shopping....
Yes Phil, I hear what you're saying, but I'm pretty sure there is a reason people wear suits when they go to court, why nightclubs and select entertainment or dining establishments have dress codes, why you have a shower and wear clean tidy clothes when you go on a first date: BECAUSE APPEARANCE MATTERS.
No, it shouldn't do, but it DOES.
As I stated in my example earlier in the thread, people immediately identify other people by the way they are dressed. A group of young people on a street corner wearing comfortable clothes aren't seen as potentially wealthy individuals, or prospective purchasers of select automobiles, are they? They are seen and described as 'a bunch of scruffy young gits'.
So, an unshaved, track suit bottomed, T shirt wearing, Nike shod 'yoof' walking into a showroom full of expensive automobiles is more than likely seen as a dreamer, a window shopper or a chav.
I didn't dictate this policy, but just have a glance around at society and you will see that appearance DOES matter, so why should a car showroom be any different.
Phil Hopkins said:
"He wants to not give a test drive."
The test drive is an integral part of the sales process, I wouldn't be doing my job properly if I didn't offer you a test drive. The last thing I want 2 weeks after you taking delivery is a phone call saying you don't like it.
What utter tosh, most car salesmen couldn't give a toss if you don't like the car, they have the attitude of 'you bought it and it's your problem if you don't like it'.
(I stress the most in that sentence, there are some good guys out there but sadly they are few and far between, a bit like estate agents really!)
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