Car vs bike - cornering speeds
Discussion
off topic, but
this is why you actually turn the bars slightly the opposite way you'd think
a bike MUST lean to corner, the ONLY way to do this is to countersteer, the rider leaning just helps things along.
it's perfectly possible to turn without the rider leaning off, it's impossible to turn without turning the bars (the 'wrong way')
Caruso said:
If you ride a bike into a corner and simply turn the handlebars without leaning, it would topple towards the outside of the corner.
depends which way you turn the barsthis is why you actually turn the bars slightly the opposite way you'd think
a bike MUST lean to corner, the ONLY way to do this is to countersteer, the rider leaning just helps things along.
it's perfectly possible to turn without the rider leaning off, it's impossible to turn without turning the bars (the 'wrong way')
Edited by hugoagogo on Tuesday 22 July 12:56
SwissCamel said:
Bikes are quicker in the corners. Bikes are quicker in a straight line. Bikes are better at braking. Bikes are so good at overtaking 'just sit still in your car and it'll be over before you know it'. Bikes are such good value for money. Bikes are ridden by some of the nicest people you'll ever hope to meet. People who ride bikes have to put up with so much off car drivers not watching out for them. Bikes are just the best. I love bikes. Cars aren't for me because bikes are just so great. I wish I could be a bike because they are so much better than these cages that I see people driving around in, and these cages can't go around corners as quick the bike I would like to be.
Check your facts... 0-100-0 there are plenty of cars that will beat even the fastest bikes. The truth for most car/bike comparisons is that fast cars out brake fast bikes, bikes corner slightly slower than cars, but bikes accelerate faster.Edited by SwissCamel on Tuesday 22 July 12:30
Caruso said:
If you ride a bike into a corner and simply turn the handlebars without leaning
I think you may have cause and effect a bit confused here... a bike leans because you turn the bars and won't lean if you don't steer with the bars.More information than anyone could possibly require...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering
...and a demonstration from Keith Code's "no bs bike"...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nRUeEkS644
Edited by dern on Tuesday 22 July 13:18
Ignoring the six-year-old (or imbecile) who said bikes were faster everywhere, I'd suggest that if you programmed two vehicles with equal power to weight ratios, optimised suspension and equal driver/rider talent and bravery into a simulator, then the four-wheeled variant would win.
As regards your real-world example, I don't have a clue, but I don't think your SV will be much (if any) slower in a straight line than the TVR, certainly up to 100mph. Weight is the enemy of progress.
As regards your real-world example, I don't have a clue, but I don't think your SV will be much (if any) slower in a straight line than the TVR, certainly up to 100mph. Weight is the enemy of progress.
cg360 said:
Ignoring the six-year-old (or imbecile) who said bikes were faster everywhere, I'd suggest that if you programmed two vehicles with equal power to weight ratios, optimised suspension and equal driver/rider talent and bravery into a simulator, then the four-wheeled variant would win. As regards your real-world example, I don't have a clue, but I don't think your SV will be much (if any) slower in a straight line than the TVR, certainly up to 100mph. Weight is the enemy of progress.
again, I agree completely. A Formula Ford plus driver with 290 bhp per tonne can outperform an R500 around a UK circuit with 435bhp per tonne. In tests that I've seen they both beat an R1 with 660 per tonne! My conclusion is, therefore, that track or A to B performance is too much about braking and cornering ability for a bike to be faster. Oh, and as for the OP's question, I'm afraid I've no idea which would win.Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 22 July 13:27
jamesgrrr said:
SwissCamel said:
Bikes are quicker in the corners. Bikes are quicker in a straight line. Bikes are better at braking. Bikes are so good at overtaking 'just sit still in your car and it'll be over before you know it'. Bikes are such good value for money. Bikes are ridden by some of the nicest people you'll ever hope to meet. People who ride bikes have to put up with so much off car drivers not watching out for them. Bikes are just the best. I love bikes. Cars aren't for me because bikes are just so great. I wish I could be a bike because they are so much better than these cages that I see people driving around in, and these cages can't go around corners as quick the bike I would like to be.
??? I think it's been proven in the last 100 or so answers that bikes are slower round corners, worse at braking but quicker in a straight line..Edited by SwissCamel on Tuesday 22 July 12:30
Would a 675 vs a 350z be a good comparison? I can go datalog apex speeds if i have to...
aeropilot said:
a bike has a much too small contact patch to be able to corner quicker than a car....simple physics.
Grip is a function of friction (road surface and tyre compound) and downward pressure (weight+downforce), having a bigger contact patch just allows you to spread the work over a greater area, thus allowing softer tyres or lower tyre operating temperatures. Generally speaking for soft tyres on a heavy car then you will need a large width to avoid overheating and a tyre life shorter than the average big-brother contestent's celebrity statusBikes don't need a large contact patch as they weigh nothing and thus don't require a lot of work to change direction. They also exert force in a different way to cars. Bikes also have very soft tyres so have a high coefficient of grip. Bikes also have the advantage that the track's effective width is 2-3 times as wide as it is for a car.
However, as said before a bike's front end grip is probably limited by the angle the rider can lean in at rather than the tyre's actual grip, and a car exerts a much larger slip angle to change direction and makes better effective use of the contact patch. I'd guess this is why you see the best riders 'drifting' the bike to effectively exert a steering angle
In an ideal situation with drivers/riders of equal talent and a perfect surface I'd say its a toss up, but under realistic conditions with bumps and gravel and such I'd put my money on the car.
I don't think ultimate lateral grip would tell us much because a vehicle is rarely in a steady state when being driven on the limit. What is a fact is that a fast car can equal or better a fast bike round a track. This has been done many times on TV and in magazines. In each of the tests the bike's had noticeably more straight line acceleration, so the car must be making it up somewhere! The answer to that is obviously in the only other aspects of a lap: braking and cornering.
Judging by the amount of cars that seem to slam on their brakes on any country road corner, a bike does them faster. There's corners I've taken at the speed limit in an NSL while the car behind - for no apparent reason seems to have took them at 10mph. Imagine being a cager stuck behind those over-cautious drivers.
tvrolet said:
Holy thread resurrection Batman! I started reading this then noticed I’d posted a response - in 2008! Half the folks reading it now we’re probably on pushbikes 9 years ago!
And folks still can’t agree...
Oh crap, what happens when you google.And folks still can’t agree...
And as I said, judging by how easy it is to leave people behind on a 125 down country lanes - it's bikes.
revvingit said:
And as I said, judging by how easy it is to leave people behind on a 125 down country lanes - it's bikes.
Behave! Which are the cars that you'd be leaving behind? Are they even aware you are 'racing' them and trying to get away from them? Perhaps they are just plodding along driving home from the shops!
Your 125 wouldn't see which way a fast car went (if driven quickly!).
DuraAce said:
Behave!
Which are the cars that you'd be leaving behind? Are they even aware you are 'racing' them and trying to get away from them? Perhaps they are just plodding along driving home from the shops!
Your 125 wouldn't see which way a fast car went (if driven quickly!).
Family hatchbacks, country gent cars etc behind on a country lane at the weekend - was quite a severe S bend. Managed to take it myself at 50mph, whilst the idiot behind took it a lot slower. I know they didn't turn off as there's nowhere to turn on that bend and i saw them as i entered the next one. I never said I was trying to get away from, it's just a consequence you notice you're pulling away from them when you come out the other side of the bend into a straight and you don't see them in the mirror til you're at the other end of it. Had to swerve very sharply to avoid an oncoming truck when I emerged on the wrong side of the road, but managed it okay so obviously wasn't going as fast as i could have (NSL road). Which are the cars that you'd be leaving behind? Are they even aware you are 'racing' them and trying to get away from them? Perhaps they are just plodding along driving home from the shops!
Your 125 wouldn't see which way a fast car went (if driven quickly!).
DuraAce said:
Why is someone an idiot for slowing to take a bend at a speed they are comfortable with?
(You still wouldn't be faster than someone in a quick car who was making an effort)
If I can take a corner on my scooter at 55mph there is absolutely no reason an Audi driver needs to do 20 around it.(You still wouldn't be faster than someone in a quick car who was making an effort)
Just to add my three penneth to this debate. And before doing so, I should state that I have been a keen motorcyclist for over 50 years.
But in terms of actual corner speed, a car in the same performance class will IMHO be quicker around a bend when taking a similar line. The reason for this is that the car has the benefit of much more contact area for the four tyres with the road. In comparison a motorcycle has only 2 contact areas, each of which is about the size of a credit card. A bike may appear quicker because of its superior acceleration out of the bend.
And by the same class I mean that the quickest road going sports motorcycles will be equivalent to the supercars of today - ie. Ferraris and Maclarens etc.
But in terms of actual corner speed, a car in the same performance class will IMHO be quicker around a bend when taking a similar line. The reason for this is that the car has the benefit of much more contact area for the four tyres with the road. In comparison a motorcycle has only 2 contact areas, each of which is about the size of a credit card. A bike may appear quicker because of its superior acceleration out of the bend.
And by the same class I mean that the quickest road going sports motorcycles will be equivalent to the supercars of today - ie. Ferraris and Maclarens etc.
Mieke said:
Just to add my three penneth to this debate. And before doing so, I should state that I have been a keen motorcyclist for over 50 years.
But in terms of actual corner speed, a car in the same performance class will IMHO be quicker around a bend when taking a similar line. The reason for this is that the car has the benefit of much more contact area for the four tyres with the road. In comparison a motorcycle has only 2 contact areas, each of which is about the size of a credit card. A bike may appear quicker because of its superior acceleration out of the bend.
And by the same class I mean that the quickest road going sports motorcycles will be equivalent to the supercars of today - ie. Ferraris and Maclarens etc.
Yep, it's about the contact areas equals more grip. When the bike is leaning on the corners, there is literally just the edges of the tyres gripping the road and there's only so much speed you can utilise on a bike, far less than cars.But in terms of actual corner speed, a car in the same performance class will IMHO be quicker around a bend when taking a similar line. The reason for this is that the car has the benefit of much more contact area for the four tyres with the road. In comparison a motorcycle has only 2 contact areas, each of which is about the size of a credit card. A bike may appear quicker because of its superior acceleration out of the bend.
And by the same class I mean that the quickest road going sports motorcycles will be equivalent to the supercars of today - ie. Ferraris and Maclarens etc.
revvingit said:
Judging by the amount of cars that seem to slam on their brakes on any country road corner, a bike does them faster. There's corners I've taken at the speed limit in an NSL while the car behind - for no apparent reason seems to have took them at 10mph. Imagine being a cager stuck behind those over-cautious drivers.
The reason for this effect is a biker is more likely to be 'one of us' than the average car driver. The average car driver, by contrast, is just Joe Public, who drives excruciatingly slowly, and to make matters worse they all now seem to own SUVs. Most bikers, even those without sports bikes, enjoy and relish what they do and ride in a much more spirited fashion.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff