Saab faster than 911 Turbo - Top gear claim
Discussion
dazren said:
(Er After last weekend, Miniman can comment on the 996tt being caned through 2nd 3rd and 4th from about 20mph upwards.)
I was just about to post, actually. Having experienced the 996 do the 40 to 70 blast, I could only say that if the Saab can do it quicker then
me backwards with a blunt instrument
I do belive th car being talked about is the 9-5 Aero saloon, which is a v6 turbo. Something like 400Nm of torque or other such daft figure...
was tring to find figures for comparison butt can only find 2.0l I4 - my google skills need polishing obviously!
However, don't get carried away, its only the 40-70mph in 2nd gear that Saab claims, its not trying to be a pretender to the 996's throne. Stop getting your knickers in a twist boys!
was tring to find figures for comparison butt can only find 2.0l I4 - my google skills need polishing obviously!
However, don't get carried away, its only the 40-70mph in 2nd gear that Saab claims, its not trying to be a pretender to the 996's throne. Stop getting your knickers in a twist boys!
domster said:
Edited: Domster, if I had hit the enter button just marginally quicker I would have beat you to it!
>> Edited by DustyC on Monday 10th November 17:39
Great minds, eh?
Quicker on the buzzer next time, Claypole
Bloody hell was I that drunk at BTaP that I wore a jesters outfit
Note to self: Trim 'tache or curl into handle bars
I thought it was crap as well. Here are the figures (as I recall from last nights astonished quick check in Evo).
The current 911 turbo comes in two flavours - 420 bhp and 450 bhp (lets consider teh lower powered version as its hardly anaemic) and weighs in at approx 1350 kgs.
The Saab aero has 250 bhp and weighs in at 1500+ kgs.
So they are claiming that despite a 170 bhp deficit and nearly 200kgs more weight it still out drags the 911.
Hmmm.... methinks not.
The only way they can do this is by deliberately using too high a gear in the 911. I would reckon that 40-70 using both 2nd and 3rd in the 911 would be pretty darn underpant-filling quick.
The current 911 turbo comes in two flavours - 420 bhp and 450 bhp (lets consider teh lower powered version as its hardly anaemic) and weighs in at approx 1350 kgs.
The Saab aero has 250 bhp and weighs in at 1500+ kgs.
So they are claiming that despite a 170 bhp deficit and nearly 200kgs more weight it still out drags the 911.
Hmmm.... methinks not.
The only way they can do this is by deliberately using too high a gear in the 911. I would reckon that 40-70 using both 2nd and 3rd in the 911 would be pretty darn underpant-filling quick.
derestrictor said:
Domster, thankyou.
The mirth quotient from your previous post has unfortunately wrenched me violently into the wonderful world eunuchdom.
Btw, aren't those MLMs getting worse at the mo? Something to do with the dark nights drawing in?
Schnellenhoff.
You missed a treat at BTaP, DeR. Trust Ted is sending you the award by carrier pigeon. Make sure you are there next year
PS Yes, MLMism is still rampant, but Bodo has been gathering shocking international evidence, now up on the site.
911newbie said:
I thought it was crap as well. Here are the figures (as I recall from last nights astonished quick check in Evo).
The current 911 turbo comes in two flavours - 420 bhp and 450 bhp (lets consider teh lower powered version as its hardly anaemic) and weighs in at approx 1350 kgs.
The Saab aero has 250 bhp and weighs in at 1500+ kgs.
So they are claiming that despite a 170 bhp deficit and nearly 200kgs more weight it still out drags the 911.
Hmmm.... methinks not.
The only way they can do this is by deliberately using too high a gear in the 911. I would reckon that 40-70 using both 2nd and 3rd in the 911 would be pretty darn underpant-filling quick.
BHP probably has less clout than torque in this arguement - have you any figures for those..?
Also gear ratios - these count for a lot in acceleration times.
>> Edited by Buffalo on Monday 10th November 17:51
OK Looking for figures -
(from www.supercarsite.net)
996 turbo (standard tune)
415 bhp at 6000 rpm,
413 lb.-ft. torque (2,700-4,600 rpm)
Final Drive 3.44:1
1st Gear Ratio 3.82:1
2nd Gear Ratio 2.05:1
3rd Gear Ratio 1.41:1
4th Gear Ratio 1.12:1
5th Gear Ratio 0.92:1
6th Gear Ratio 0.75:1
Saab aero
230 bhp at 5,500 rpm
258 lb.-ft. torque (1,900 – 3,800)
2.3L 4-cyl. Turbo;
First 3.38:1
Second 1.76:1
Third 1.18:1
Fourth 0.89:1
Fifth 0.66:1
Final Drive 4.05:1
So there is something of a difference in 3rd gear but not that much and the torque figures are massively different.
(from www.supercarsite.net)
996 turbo (standard tune)
415 bhp at 6000 rpm,
413 lb.-ft. torque (2,700-4,600 rpm)
Final Drive 3.44:1
1st Gear Ratio 3.82:1
2nd Gear Ratio 2.05:1
3rd Gear Ratio 1.41:1
4th Gear Ratio 1.12:1
5th Gear Ratio 0.92:1
6th Gear Ratio 0.75:1
Saab aero
230 bhp at 5,500 rpm
258 lb.-ft. torque (1,900 – 3,800)
2.3L 4-cyl. Turbo;
First 3.38:1
Second 1.76:1
Third 1.18:1
Fourth 0.89:1
Fifth 0.66:1
Final Drive 4.05:1
So there is something of a difference in 3rd gear but not that much and the torque figures are massively different.
andymadmak said:
Do Saab still use those old Triumph Dolomite engines? 
Andy 400se
>> Edited by andymadmak on Monday 10th November 18:00
They do but it's one of the most developed engines going. Not really a dolomite jobbie now. It's set no end of records over the years for speed and endurance. Also the police liked the 9000 turbo for it's accelleration at the bottom end. It literally jumps in the air if you hit it to hard. That's assuming the t/c is engaged (9000 here).
911 NEWBIE 
) 
)I drove an old 9000SE with the 2.3 16v turbo engine a few years ago and I can confirm that they a VERY quick. Mainly it seemed because Saab tune them to produce peak torque at very low revs ( 1900rpm ) which is really were you need it on a road car. They also use quite low gearing, the one I drove wouldn't do anything like 70mph in 2nd. The only drawback being the torque-steer, every time the turbo came in you were helpfully guided towards the nearest ditch/tree!!
Somewhat of a bargain second hand aswell I keep getting temped to buy one as a run around, you can pick up a 95 M reg for a couple of grand and the spec is usually huge.
Andy
Somewhat of a bargain second hand aswell I keep getting temped to buy one as a run around, you can pick up a 95 M reg for a couple of grand and the spec is usually huge.
Andy
911newbie said:
OK Looking for figures -
(from www.supercarsite.net)
996 turbo (standard tune)
415 bhp at 6000 rpm,
413 lb.-ft. torque (2,700-4,600 rpm)
Final Drive 3.44:1
1st Gear Ratio 3.82:1
2nd Gear Ratio 2.05:1
3rd Gear Ratio 1.41:1
4th Gear Ratio 1.12:1
5th Gear Ratio 0.92:1
6th Gear Ratio 0.75:1
Saab aero
230 bhp at 5,500 rpm
258 lb.-ft. torque (1,900 – 3,800)
2.3L 4-cyl. Turbo;
First 3.38:1
Second 1.76:1
Third 1.18:1
Fourth 0.89:1
Fifth 0.66:1
Final Drive 4.05:1
So there is something of a difference in 3rd gear but not that much and the torque figures are massively different.
Those gear ratios match up with what Domster and I where suggesting earlier.
I dont think we really need to discuss this mush (or much) further because its all a load of tosh and I think everyone agrees!
Sorry to upset you but people don't agree and that includes JC. I don't know about the new saabs but the old ones were quicker at some points then the 911 of the same period (I assume the testorasa was quicker then the 911) and probably handled better as well. They will also overboost quite happily in the right conditions due to very good management Sure the modern 911 has more power and will be quicker then the saab overall but you can't ignore the fact that the saab makes some useful grunt in just the right place. So, it could indeed be a bit quicker. I wouldn't dismiss it. They did it in the past and will no doubt do it again.
and that includes JC. I don't know about the new saabs but the old ones were quicker at some points then the 911 of the same period (I assume the testorasa was quicker then the 911) and probably handled better as well. They will also overboost quite happily in the right conditions due to very good management Sure the modern 911 has more power and will be quicker then the saab overall but you can't ignore the fact that the saab makes some useful grunt in just the right place. So, it could indeed be a bit quicker. I wouldn't dismiss it. They did it in the past and will no doubt do it again.DustyC said:
Those gear ratios match up with what Domster and I where suggesting earlier.
I dont think we really need to discuss this mush (or much) further because its all a load of tosh and I think everyone agrees!
I am positve that the car being talked about on TG last night was a v6 turbo.
Even if not the I4 saab 9000 turbo was quicker (i think between 50-70) than the 911 of the same period - the advert was displayed in mags like AutoCAR etc.
It of course matters not a jot, but they wouldn't make the claim if it wasn't at least nearly true!
The claim is only for one slice of pie, not through the rev range or top speed, or handling - just between 40-mph and 70mph when using 2nd gear in the saab.
i think as 911 owners you could allow the saab one small victory to the underdog! LOL
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