Saab faster than 911 Turbo - Top gear claim
Discussion
There will always be doubters and unbelievers, however one should never underestimate the old Saabs. In my old 91 2.3 Carlsson with the boost wound up a wee bit I had a mess around with a bloke in a Carrera 4 on the A1 about 18 months ago. Because we never actually stopped didn't have to worry about spinning wheels and dreaded traction control kicking in and I stayed with him all the way up to top speed which indicated in my car was off the clock and pointing straight down, where he pulled a few car lengths away from me. Standard, the Carlsson would do about 145 with 220bhp..with the extra boost and about 60hp more I reckon it should have got to a genuine 155mph. My car cost only £2000 and could carries 5 adults plus luggage and had approx 190000 miles on the clock.
On the 4 lane section of the A1/M near Cambridge I had a Boxster on my rear bumper going up the slight incline at max speed and when I pulled over he was out of my slip stream he couldn't get past.
Since then I have a 1 year newer version of the same car and have spent about £750 on improving the performance and coming onto the M1 into Belfast actually had a chance to compare its performance against a 03 M3, he accelerated.....I was still there, he accelerated some more....I was still there and when the slip road opened out I floored it and left him for dead. Now he might have been in the wrong gear, I was in 3rd, he might have been a crap driver, well it is a BMW or he might have been concerned that everytime he's accelerated like that before has usually been enough to see off most cars....but this car was an old Saab sleeper...stands me at £2750 goes like stink.
On the 4 lane section of the A1/M near Cambridge I had a Boxster on my rear bumper going up the slight incline at max speed and when I pulled over he was out of my slip stream he couldn't get past.
Since then I have a 1 year newer version of the same car and have spent about £750 on improving the performance and coming onto the M1 into Belfast actually had a chance to compare its performance against a 03 M3, he accelerated.....I was still there, he accelerated some more....I was still there and when the slip road opened out I floored it and left him for dead. Now he might have been in the wrong gear, I was in 3rd, he might have been a crap driver, well it is a BMW or he might have been concerned that everytime he's accelerated like that before has usually been enough to see off most cars....but this car was an old Saab sleeper...stands me at £2750 goes like stink.
This car is not road legal. Racing only.
Behind the wheel of a 750 horsepower Ecopower Saab 9-3 Viggen, Per Eklund, the 1999 European Rallycross Champion, realized his dream of competing at Pikes Peak. In an impressive rookie performance, he captured first place in the Open Class, set a new record for this top division and finished with the second fastest overall time of the day - 11:21.58.
Original Saab engine block and cylinder head. Engine tuned by Trollspeed of Trollh,ttan.
Garrett turbocharger with intercooler (3.0 bar or 42.8 psi)
0 to 60 in 2.3 seconds.
Specifications
Year
2000
Origin
Not Available
Make
Saab
Base Price
Not Available
Model
9-3 Viggen Pikes Peak
Production
Not Available
Engine & Transmission
Body / Chassis
Position
Not Available
Drive Wheels
Not Available
Configuration
Inline-4
Curb Weight
948 kg / 2090 lbs
Valvetrain
DOHC 4 Valves / Cyl
Length
Not Available
Displacement
2000 cc / 122.0 cu in
Width
Not Available
Power
559.3 kw / 750.0 bhp @ 8000 rpm
Height
Not Available
Torque
702.31 nm / 518.0 ft lbs @ 6500 rpm
Wheelbase
Not Available
Bore
92 mm / 3.62 in
Front Track
Not Available
Stroke
77 mm / 3.03 in
Rear Track
Not Available
HP / Liter
375.0 bhp per litre
Body / Frame
Not Available
Gear Type
Six Speed Prodrive
Front Brake Size
Not Available
Performance
Top Speed
249.4 kph / 155.0 mph
>> Edited by K27 on Saturday 6th December 16:58
Behind the wheel of a 750 horsepower Ecopower Saab 9-3 Viggen, Per Eklund, the 1999 European Rallycross Champion, realized his dream of competing at Pikes Peak. In an impressive rookie performance, he captured first place in the Open Class, set a new record for this top division and finished with the second fastest overall time of the day - 11:21.58.
Original Saab engine block and cylinder head. Engine tuned by Trollspeed of Trollh,ttan.
Garrett turbocharger with intercooler (3.0 bar or 42.8 psi)
0 to 60 in 2.3 seconds.
Specifications
Year
2000
Origin
Not Available
Make
Saab
Base Price
Not Available
Model
9-3 Viggen Pikes Peak
Production
Not Available
Engine & Transmission
Body / Chassis
Position
Not Available
Drive Wheels
Not Available
Configuration
Inline-4
Curb Weight
948 kg / 2090 lbs
Valvetrain
DOHC 4 Valves / Cyl
Length
Not Available
Displacement
2000 cc / 122.0 cu in
Width
Not Available
Power
559.3 kw / 750.0 bhp @ 8000 rpm
Height
Not Available
Torque
702.31 nm / 518.0 ft lbs @ 6500 rpm
Wheelbase
Not Available
Bore
92 mm / 3.62 in
Front Track
Not Available
Stroke
77 mm / 3.03 in
Rear Track
Not Available
HP / Liter
375.0 bhp per litre
Body / Frame
Not Available
Gear Type
Six Speed Prodrive
Front Brake Size
Not Available
Performance
Top Speed
249.4 kph / 155.0 mph
>> Edited by K27 on Saturday 6th December 16:58
I think it depends on circumstances in many respects too.
I was following a 911 a few years ago on a dual carriageway, both of us in the outer lane, him in front 2-up and me on my own. We were being held up by a lorry and I knew he was going to try to leave me for dust as soon as the lorry came in. I therefore made sure I was in the optimal gear to be right in the power band and as soon as the lorry pulled in I was on the power immediately. The result was that he couldn't shake me until I let him go at (hehem, cough) 70mph or so officer.
Now I am not for one minute suggesting that a mildly-tweaked Corrado VR6 can burn off a 911, but I am making the point that in the real world, power-to-weight ratio is affected by now many passengers you are carrying and perceived acceleration is affected by how soon you get on the power.
As further evidence, I used to play Gran Turismo on the Playstation a lot. No, bear with me, there is a point here.
At one point I was testing the standing quarter of my fire-breathing Skyline and had the ghost car turned on. The ghost car being your best time so far. And it was amazing how much difference a poor start would make to your times. If you got a poor start then you'd swear the ghost car had an extra 30bhp or so more as he romped off into the distance, yet you knew it was an identical car and driver to yourself, because it was yourself.
So put the above two together and suddenly it is plausible that on that day, in those conditions, in those circumstance, with all the factors the way they were, that 911 couldn't pull away from me and why a Saab could appear to out-drag a Ferrari.
Under different circumstance? Not a chance!
I was following a 911 a few years ago on a dual carriageway, both of us in the outer lane, him in front 2-up and me on my own. We were being held up by a lorry and I knew he was going to try to leave me for dust as soon as the lorry came in. I therefore made sure I was in the optimal gear to be right in the power band and as soon as the lorry pulled in I was on the power immediately. The result was that he couldn't shake me until I let him go at (hehem, cough) 70mph or so officer.
Now I am not for one minute suggesting that a mildly-tweaked Corrado VR6 can burn off a 911, but I am making the point that in the real world, power-to-weight ratio is affected by now many passengers you are carrying and perceived acceleration is affected by how soon you get on the power.
As further evidence, I used to play Gran Turismo on the Playstation a lot. No, bear with me, there is a point here.
At one point I was testing the standing quarter of my fire-breathing Skyline and had the ghost car turned on. The ghost car being your best time so far. And it was amazing how much difference a poor start would make to your times. If you got a poor start then you'd swear the ghost car had an extra 30bhp or so more as he romped off into the distance, yet you knew it was an identical car and driver to yourself, because it was yourself.
So put the above two together and suddenly it is plausible that on that day, in those conditions, in those circumstance, with all the factors the way they were, that 911 couldn't pull away from me and why a Saab could appear to out-drag a Ferrari.
Under different circumstance? Not a chance!
It also depends on whether you are going round these things called corners too.
Loads of cars are fast in a straight line. It means nothing. until you throw a few corners fast and slow into the equation.
Virtually every saloon car Ive seen on a track day with the exception of course to Scoobies RS6s,and Evos, are hopeless.
Plus the fact that they are FWD means the slingshot effect out of fast corners is non-existent. They understeer horribly and get left for dust.
Loads of cars are fast in a straight line. It means nothing. until you throw a few corners fast and slow into the equation.
Virtually every saloon car Ive seen on a track day with the exception of course to Scoobies RS6s,and Evos, are hopeless.
Plus the fact that they are FWD means the slingshot effect out of fast corners is non-existent. They understeer horribly and get left for dust.
Gazboy said:
yep, left a few M3s standing around the twisties
ffs! doh! I didn't realise it was you! You may leave 'em in the twisties but they would smoke your ass in a straight line
your MR2 aswell!
ill stick to the snake pass for picking my victims.
Dragdolph the red nosed ?
peterpeter said:
It also depends on whether you are going round these things called corners too.
Loads of cars are fast in a straight line. It means nothing. until you throw a few corners fast and slow into the equation.
Virtually every saloon car Ive seen on a track day with the exception of course to Scoobies RS6s,and Evos, are hopeless.
Plus the fact that they are FWD means the slingshot effect out of fast corners is non-existent. They understeer horribly and get left for dust.
obviously.
get that out of a mag did you??
cheers
MoJo (hi)
MoJocvh said:
It also depends on whether you are going round these things called corners too.
Loads of cars are fast in a straight line. It means nothing. until you throw a few corners fast and slow into the equation.
Virtually every saloon car Ive seen on a track day with the exception of course to Scoobies RS6s,and Evos, are hopeless.
Plus the fact that they are FWD means the slingshot effect out of fast corners is non-existent. They understeer horribly and get left for dust.
obviously.
get that out of a mag did you??
cheers
MoJo (hi)
No, from the 150+ track days Ive done in 911s, westfields caterhams, mazdas, Jags, Nsxs, 968s too on most of the Uks. southern circuits over the last 10 years.
Not seen that lump of shit you drive on any of those days.
peterpeter said:
peterpeter said:
It also depends on whether you are going round these things called corners too.
Loads of cars are fast in a straight line. It means nothing. until you throw a few corners fast and slow into the equation.
Virtually every saloon car Ive seen on a track day with the exception of course to Scoobies RS6s,and Evos, are hopeless.
Plus the fact that they are FWD means the slingshot effect out of fast corners is non-existent. They understeer horribly and get left for dust.
obviously.
get that out of a mag did you??
cheers
MoJo (hi)
No, from the 150+ track days Ive done in 911s, westfields caterhams, mazdas, Jags, Nsxs, 968s too on most of the Uks. southern circuits over the last 10 years.
Not seen that lump of shit you drive on any of those days.
Cmon, where are you?
Gazboy said:
Taking this claim with a pinch of salt, ok maybe it faster than the porsche 20-70 in second, but what about other speed incrimants in other gears?
This arguement still going..?
The claim made by Saab is that their car is faster than a 911 from 20-70mph in second gear. Thats it. Not that its quicker in any other gear, or has a higher top gear, or handles better.
One gear, one time.
Is that so hard to swallow? The Saab is - the in gear times show this (at least those that i have read do). Just because a 911 probably costs what? 3x as much? Doesn't mean to say it does *everything* 3x as well.
Its just marketting - it doesn't technically make a difference because in all other *driving* aspects the 911 creates the overall package, which the Saab cannot within the package that it is offered.
Gazboy said:
Gazboy said:
Taking this claim with a pinch of salt, ok maybe it faster than the porsche 20-70 in second, but what about other speed incrimants in other gears?
This arguement still going..?
The claim made by Saab is that their car is faster than a 911 from 20-70mph in second gear. Thats it. Not that its quicker in any other gear, or has a higher top gear, or handles better.
One gear, one time.
Is that so hard to swallow? The Saab is - the in gear times show this (at least those that i have read do). Just because a 911 probably costs what? 3x as much? Doesn't mean to say it does *everything* 3x as well.
Its just marketting - it doesn't technically make a difference because in all other *driving* aspects the 911 creates the overall package, which the Saab cannot within the package that it is offered.
Er, you kinda stood on my point there buffalo!
Peterpeter and Mojo would you both shut the hell up, you are getting boring, just chill and ignore each other.
Fine by me, but I'm not the one calling people quote "c**t".
cheers
MoJo.
MoJocvh said:
"southern circuits over the last 10 years"
Says it all really.
see ya.
You obviously have a problem Mojo.
You keep following my posts and leaving bitchy little replies. It doesnt bother me, I actually think its quite funny, but its(sorry, we are)obviously boring other people.
Maybe we should just let it be for now.
OF course if not, I will be happy to respond to more of them in my ever so diplomatic way.
>> Edited by peterpeter on Wednesday 17th December 19:07
>> Edited by peterpeter on Wednesday 17th December 19:08
Who cares if the Saab is faster in one particular test?
Porsches are desirable cars - not just because the cost of them makes them aspirational, but because they are very thoroughly engineered with a perfectionists touch. They don't rust. They last forever. They acclerate, brake and steer closer to a pure racing car better than most (99%) vehicles on the road. Maybe a Ferrari is a better car - even on a track that would be too close for most to call.
I don't know about anybody else but a phone call asking if I want to drive a Saab would hardly get my pulse racing. Even if somebody said that if I put the car in top gear it could accelerate faster than a McLaren F1 in top I wouldn't want to bother.
When Saab find a way of fixing the abysmal torque steer, the stodgy handling and give the brand sufficient kudos to snap the knicker elastic of supermodels - then and only might I be interested in driving one.
Porsches are desirable cars - not just because the cost of them makes them aspirational, but because they are very thoroughly engineered with a perfectionists touch. They don't rust. They last forever. They acclerate, brake and steer closer to a pure racing car better than most (99%) vehicles on the road. Maybe a Ferrari is a better car - even on a track that would be too close for most to call.
I don't know about anybody else but a phone call asking if I want to drive a Saab would hardly get my pulse racing. Even if somebody said that if I put the car in top gear it could accelerate faster than a McLaren F1 in top I wouldn't want to bother.
When Saab find a way of fixing the abysmal torque steer, the stodgy handling and give the brand sufficient kudos to snap the knicker elastic of supermodels - then and only might I be interested in driving one.
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