RE: Tesla Model S Revealed
Discussion
EK993 said:
Hows this going to work in the real world though? If electric vehicles are the way forward, it will more or less put oil companies out of business... and I can't see energy suppliers not wanting to cash in and vastly increase the price of electricity. Are we really going to be allowed to get away with $4 for 300 miles?
The oil companies are diversifying already - they know that although there's plenty of oil left, they need to start investing in replacements. IIRC, most of these "greedy" oil companies spend the lion's share of their profits on research into alternative fuels and power sources.Bizzle said:
:Shakes Head:
Yeah, great... Another electric car that takes its power straight from the National Grid, which is primarily powered by a system that's just as polluting as burning petrol BUT with 90% of the efficiency. Smashing. Well done.
Bloody tree huggers hail "electric cars" as the answer to the world’s problems. But the power to run them has to be produced some how!
Car looks nice tho.
I think rather a lot of folk will be happier payingwhat no doubt by then will be some thirty times less to travel their journeys - kinda makes a diff over 12000 miles per year dont you think?Yeah, great... Another electric car that takes its power straight from the National Grid, which is primarily powered by a system that's just as polluting as burning petrol BUT with 90% of the efficiency. Smashing. Well done.
Bloody tree huggers hail "electric cars" as the answer to the world’s problems. But the power to run them has to be produced some how!
Car looks nice tho.
If car comes in under the $50k target too with battery packs being backed by them (otherwise you couldnt blind exchange them on re-fill) and exchange rate returns a little more favourably, mmmm, has to be tempting
EK993 said:
Hows this going to work in the real world though?
It doesn't. 4 hrs for a charge is not 4 mins for a fill up at a petrol station. If you don't get your expected mileage or you get stuck in traffic or you need to take a detour because of an accident etc. then what?Oh, I'm running short of petrol, I'll just cruise around till I find a petrol station. No. I'll just cruise around till I can find a recharging point and then wait 4 hrs. Let's say you need 1/4 charge to get back, that's still a 1 hour wait.
Run out of go on a public road? Options for recovery? You can't siphon petrol from a generous passer by or walk to the nearest petrol station with a jerry can. You're stuffed.
The car looks great, but the logistics just don't support the vast majority of highway users. The weight is disappointing, but that will be all the batteries. A hybrid system would have been a more usable bet, and let us not even get started about clean energy generation for the grid vs. petrol engine CO2 or Nitrogen/Sulfur outputs. I'm quite sure that once you factor in the environmental impact of those huge battery systems (which won't last more than a few years at most) it's going to be a green fiasco.
neon_fox said:
EK993 said:
Hows this going to work in the real world though?
It doesn't. 4 hrs for a charge is not 4 mins for a fill up at a petrol station. If you don't get your expected mileage or you get stuck in traffic or you need to take a detour because of an accident etc. then what?Oh, I'm running short of petrol, I'll just cruise around till I find a petrol station. No. I'll just cruise around till I can find a recharging point and then wait 4 hrs. Let's say you need 1/4 charge to get back, that's still a 1 hour wait.
Run out of go on a public road? Options for recovery? You can't siphon petrol from a generous passer by or walk to the nearest petrol station with a jerry can. You're stuffed.
The car looks great, but the logistics just don't support the vast majority of highway users. The weight is disappointing, but that will be all the batteries. A hybrid system would have been a more usable bet, and let us not even get started about clean energy generation for the grid vs. petrol engine CO2 or Nitrogen/Sulfur outputs. I'm quite sure that once you factor in the environmental impact of those huge battery systems (which won't last more than a few years at most) it's going to be a green fiasco.
clonmult said:
My problem is - why the heck show the product so far in advance of a potential release???
Because the company's on the verge of going bust, is in all sorts of financial and legal trouble and is run by a charlatan*?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#Controversi...
http://is.gd/peVl
- hallegedly, of course
Edited by Gridl0k on Friday 27th March 13:36
As mentioned I really can't see energy companies letting us off with such little cost for charging the vehicles - surely they will try and raise the cost of electricity supplied to vehicles to somewhere near what we are paying for running cars on petrol? Where would the Government make up the tax duty blackhole that would be created on us getting 300 miles out of s "tank"
neon_fox said:
EK993 said:
Hows this going to work in the real world though?
It doesn't. 4 hrs for a charge is not 4 mins for a fill up at a petrol station. If you don't get your expected mileage or you get stuck in traffic or you need to take a detour because of an accident etc. then what?Oh, I'm running short of petrol, I'll just cruise around till I find a petrol station. No. I'll just cruise around till I can find a recharging point and then wait 4 hrs. Let's say you need 1/4 charge to get back, that's still a 1 hour wait.
Run out of go on a public road? Options for recovery? You can't siphon petrol from a generous passer by or walk to the nearest petrol station with a jerry can. You're stuffed.
The car looks great, but the logistics just don't support the vast majority of highway users. The weight is disappointing, but that will be all the batteries. A hybrid system would have been a more usable bet, and let us not even get started about clean energy generation for the grid vs. petrol engine CO2 or Nitrogen/Sulfur outputs. I'm quite sure that once you factor in the environmental impact of those huge battery systems (which won't last more than a few years at most) it's going to be a green fiasco.
Pistonheads said:
Tesla is reportedly working with the US government to set up battery changing stations. Apparently technicians will be able to swap power packs in 6-8 minutes, which Tesla says is quicker than filling a car with petrol
neon_fox said:
EK993 said:
Hows this going to work in the real world though?
It doesn't. 4 hrs for a charge is not 4 mins for a fill up at a petrol station. If you don't get your expected mileage or you get stuck in traffic or you need to take a detour because of an accident etc. then what?Oh, I'm running short of petrol, I'll just cruise around till I find a petrol station. No. I'll just cruise around till I can find a recharging point and then wait 4 hrs. Let's say you need 1/4 charge to get back, that's still a 1 hour wait.
Run out of go on a public road? Options for recovery? You can't siphon petrol from a generous passer by or walk to the nearest petrol station with a jerry can. You're stuffed.
The car looks great, but the logistics just don't support the vast majority of highway users. The weight is disappointing, but that will be all the batteries. A hybrid system would have been a more usable bet, and let us not even get started about clean energy generation for the grid vs. petrol engine CO2 or Nitrogen/Sulfur outputs. I'm quite sure that once you factor in the environmental impact of those huge battery systems (which won't last more than a few years at most) it's going to be a green fiasco.
speedychrissie said:
"Apparently technicians will be able to swap power packs in 6-8 minutes, which Tesla says is quicker than filling a car with petrol."
where does it take 8 minutes to fill a car with petrol! that is a ridiculous statement.
the car however does look viable.
If you include standing in line behind shoppers I think it's a very true statement! where does it take 8 minutes to fill a car with petrol! that is a ridiculous statement.
the car however does look viable.
joscal said:
speedychrissie said:
"Apparently technicians will be able to swap power packs in 6-8 minutes, which Tesla says is quicker than filling a car with petrol."
where does it take 8 minutes to fill a car with petrol! that is a ridiculous statement.
the car however does look viable.
If you include standing in line behind shoppers I think it's a very true statement! where does it take 8 minutes to fill a car with petrol! that is a ridiculous statement.
the car however does look viable.
Lone Granger said:
I think rather a lot of folk will be happier payingwhat no doubt by then will be some thirty times less to travel their journeys - kinda makes a diff over 12000 miles per year dont you think?
Yes but when the thing can only do 300 miles (which I rather think will be optimistic) it makes life a bit more difficult...Neon_fox said:
The car looks great, but the logistics just don't support the vast majority of highway users. The weight is disappointing, but that will be all the batteries. A hybrid system would have been a more usable bet, and let us not even get started about clean energy generation for the grid vs. petrol engine CO2 or Nitrogen/Sulfur outputs. I'm quite sure that once you factor in the environmental impact of those huge battery systems (which won't last more than a few years at most) it's going to be a green fiasco.
Hi Neon
How do you get the "vast majority of users"?
Just because the car does not suit you does not mean is won't suit everyone.
Over 90% (Source govt survey, haven’t go a link at the mo) of all car journeys are less than 25 miles (the report said “journey” and did not state if it was return or not). Let’s assume the worst case of less than 50 miles both ways. (25 mile each way commute is 11500 miles a year which is fairly close to what cars are expected to do in a year.)
Lots of people commute to work less than 25 miles (I currently do 40 each way so a 100 mile real range is good for me even without a charger at work and I am outside the 90% group than do even less mileage).
Lots of people with families have more than 1 car ig thy need more than 300 (lets say 200 in the real world!).
For people with criteria above an electric car is a solution because they can:
1) Commute to work in but quiet (and less tiring) way
2) Use the family car or hire one foe a couple of days if they want to go over 100 miles each way (I have outlaws 290 miles away in Sunderland we only trek up there 2 or 3 times a year)
3) Avoid the current punishing fuel tax and use of imported oil.
4) If it is something that worries you, an electric car makes less CO2 overall than a petrol or oil burner even when counting making the electricity at an oil fired station and allowing for transmission line losses. (I seem to remember over 100mpg equivalent is quoted)
Regards
spunagain
The car looks great, but the logistics just don't support the vast majority of highway users. The weight is disappointing, but that will be all the batteries. A hybrid system would have been a more usable bet, and let us not even get started about clean energy generation for the grid vs. petrol engine CO2 or Nitrogen/Sulfur outputs. I'm quite sure that once you factor in the environmental impact of those huge battery systems (which won't last more than a few years at most) it's going to be a green fiasco.
Hi Neon
How do you get the "vast majority of users"?
Just because the car does not suit you does not mean is won't suit everyone.
Over 90% (Source govt survey, haven’t go a link at the mo) of all car journeys are less than 25 miles (the report said “journey” and did not state if it was return or not). Let’s assume the worst case of less than 50 miles both ways. (25 mile each way commute is 11500 miles a year which is fairly close to what cars are expected to do in a year.)
Lots of people commute to work less than 25 miles (I currently do 40 each way so a 100 mile real range is good for me even without a charger at work and I am outside the 90% group than do even less mileage).
Lots of people with families have more than 1 car ig thy need more than 300 (lets say 200 in the real world!).
For people with criteria above an electric car is a solution because they can:
1) Commute to work in but quiet (and less tiring) way
2) Use the family car or hire one foe a couple of days if they want to go over 100 miles each way (I have outlaws 290 miles away in Sunderland we only trek up there 2 or 3 times a year)
3) Avoid the current punishing fuel tax and use of imported oil.
4) If it is something that worries you, an electric car makes less CO2 overall than a petrol or oil burner even when counting making the electricity at an oil fired station and allowing for transmission line losses. (I seem to remember over 100mpg equivalent is quoted)
Regards
spunagain
neon_fox said:
The car looks great, but the logistics just don't support the vast majority of highway users.
Looking round my office now it would suit most of us with our 30 mile or less each way commutes, agreed not for going on holiday or for travelling more than a few hundred miles but for the vast majority it would do just the job. Plus you could use the money saved to run a V12 for days when the Tesla would not go far enoughBen
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