RE: Tesla Model S Revealed
Discussion
Jasandjules said:
Lone Granger said:
I think rather a lot of folk will be happier payingwhat no doubt by then will be some thirty times less to travel their journeys - kinda makes a diff over 12000 miles per year dont you think?
Yes but when the thing can only do 300 miles (which I rather think will be optimistic) it makes life a bit more difficult...
dino ferrana said:
Many people in many cities across Europe and the world cannot park outside their house. This includes some very expensive houses in major cities. Therefore they might struggle to charge it.
Installing a few strategic hydrogen stations is going to be a lot easier than putting millions of charging points into these streets to be filled with superglue, vandalised and break down.
Dino, Swings and roundabouts mate, swingsies and roundaboutsies!..lol Installing a few strategic hydrogen stations is going to be a lot easier than putting millions of charging points into these streets to be filled with superglue, vandalised and break down.
my answer to that is ..err.. tough Sh*& for them then!!..lol - the whole of Africa cannot get clean diesel, they all drive petrols.. so what?!?!
It needs to be a blend of things, the change to electric will not happen overnight and it will NEVER be a complete change to electric, it will start slowly and if it takes off.. by the time all 35 million car owners have thought and decided at some point to change to electric - they will also find a way to charge it!
Hydrogen filling stations are good and will work for the few high end cars that will come with their own hydrogen power station but I think F Cells are too complicated and will be unable to compete with simple electric motors by themselves. Its a simple rule of trade wars!
I somehow don't think I see myself selling a £500 R reg Fiesta equivalent in 10 years time with a hydrogen fuel station in it.. maybe i'm being a little pessimistic but that's because I believe there is stronger competition from other things. I do believe the hydrogen would have to go into new hydrogen power stations if anywhere.. if its viable for a car then it has to be more viable for a power station..
Supervet said:
Jasandjules said:
Lone Granger said:
I think rather a lot of folk will be happier payingwhat no doubt by then will be some thirty times less to travel their journeys - kinda makes a diff over 12000 miles per year dont you think?
Yes but when the thing can only do 300 miles (which I rather think will be optimistic) it makes life a bit more difficult...Supervet said:
Jasandjules said:
Lone Granger said:
I think rather a lot of folk will be happier payingwhat no doubt by then will be some thirty times less to travel their journeys - kinda makes a diff over 12000 miles per year dont you think?
Yes but when the thing can only do 300 miles (which I rather think will be optimistic) it makes life a bit more difficult...Imagine running the Shogun where maybe 25% of fuel stations can help you (and I think 25% would be a bit generous at this point as well)....
Mr Gear said:
joscal said:
speedychrissie said:
"Apparently technicians will be able to swap power packs in 6-8 minutes, which Tesla says is quicker than filling a car with petrol."
where does it take 8 minutes to fill a car with petrol! that is a ridiculous statement.
the car however does look viable.
If you include standing in line behind shoppers I think it's a very true statement! where does it take 8 minutes to fill a car with petrol! that is a ridiculous statement.
the car however does look viable.
Jasandjules said:
And whilst is it sat overnight charging and the local chavs go socket dropping and unplugging them all/damaging the wires which run into the streets.
Plus, 300 miles is fine if realistic BUT what happens if you get stuck in a traffic jam? Until such time as all petrol stations also have a battery pack to swap over. And if a 220v charges in four hours how much will a station charge to quickly charge it up? Then if it needs to change the battery pack, how much will they charge for that?
Just not feasible currently IMHO and would take a major change from fuel companies. It did work (ish) for LPG but people with LPG know the only 2-3 petrol stations near them which sell LPG IME....
I don't live near any local chavs (they're in well isolated estates of which there are not many)Plus, 300 miles is fine if realistic BUT what happens if you get stuck in a traffic jam? Until such time as all petrol stations also have a battery pack to swap over. And if a 220v charges in four hours how much will a station charge to quickly charge it up? Then if it needs to change the battery pack, how much will they charge for that?
Just not feasible currently IMHO and would take a major change from fuel companies. It did work (ish) for LPG but people with LPG know the only 2-3 petrol stations near them which sell LPG IME....
if you get stuck in a traffic jam.. then well..err. you don't move.. which means you are not using any electricity.. its electric homer.. it doesn't idle does it! (don't mean to patronise - just having a laugh - dont take it to heart mate:P)
It did and still does work for LPG, I have an LPG station (45p at mo) and there are at least 6 lpg stations within 5 miles of city and I only need 1 to fill the damn car up! also to buy an lpg car, choose what you like, vectra, x-type then search ebay or trader for 'vectra lpg' you'll usually get one for less than the price of the equivalent diesel and they are more economical than diesels. so half the the annual fuel costs for running lpg instead of petrol or 20 - 30% less then diesel roughly but more fun than diesel unless you have a 335d or 535d
I see a Rapide middle with an XF rear and a Maser Front. All good.
EK993 said:
Hows this going to work in the real world though? If electric vehicles are the way forward, it will more or less put oil companies out of business... and I can't see energy suppliers not wanting to cash in and vastly increase the price of electricity. Are we really going to be allowed to get away with $4 for 300 miles?
It is a bit off topic, but this is the interesting element for me. Forget the oil companies - it is the government response I am interested in, and when you see a car like this one; seemingly viable, spacious and attractive you begin to realise why Winky wants electic cars. Superficially, they are green and cheap to run, and superficially the goverment has the environment in mind. But those non-recyclable batteries will in the main be running off non-renewable energy, and there is no way in the world they would let you travel 300 miles for a few pounds. I think this is the sort of car that will be used to justify road charging and the "black box" tracking that has been mentioned before, so even if a potential buyer does not see through the environmentally friendly facade, I would hope they remember their civil liberties before committing to purchase.turbosei said:
The Honda FCX is a move in the right direction as it can contribute power to the system rather than just taking it. Whether a country of fuel cell vehicles could contribute enough to make solar, wind and tidal power viable I don't know, but any solution that only tackles it's own issue without regard for the whole energy chain is a big risk.
No.It take way more energy to produce the hydrogen than you get back from it.
It's also very, very hard to store.
dino ferrana said:
Many people in many cities across Europe and the world cannot park outside their house. This includes some very expensive houses in major cities. Therefore they might struggle to charge it.
Many can though.Those who can't probably shouldn't buy one.
dino ferrana said:
Installing a few strategic hydrogen stations is going to be a lot easier than putting millions of charging points into these streets to be filled with superglue, vandalised and break down.
No.speedychrissie said:
"Apparently technicians will be able to swap power packs in 6-8 minutes, which Tesla says is quicker than filling a car with petrol."
where does it take 8 minutes to fill a car with petrol! that is a ridiculous statement.
the car however does look viable.
Where do you live? Round my part of the world (ie. anywhere in the UK)it takes at least as long as that cos everyone's buying there dog food, bread and tampons as well as fuel where does it take 8 minutes to fill a car with petrol! that is a ridiculous statement.
the car however does look viable.
Keep up at the back - Tesla have just delivered their 250th Roadster and have an order book for almost a thousand. Lotus are gearing up to produce 35/week. That seems like a lot of product to me.
As for the S, it looks like a goer, especially with all the tax incentives. Pity HM Government over here is p******g about still on supporting our manufacturers.
As for the S, it looks like a goer, especially with all the tax incentives. Pity HM Government over here is p******g about still on supporting our manufacturers.
There is absolutely no way this can be sold for $50k.
It has more of everything compared to the Roadster, and the Roadster is $100k.
If one of the biggest car + battery manufacturer (BYD) can't do it for $50k, I doubt Tesla can.
My guess is that it will be about $75k when it eventually comes.
But full-electric cars is unlikely to be the future - the future in my opionion is cars with small amount of batteries plus an on-board generator like the FCX, but we just don't know what fuel source we are going to use yet. Unless... in the next couple of years they can invent a new type of battery with much quicker charging time AND hgiher capacity by weight than types of Lithium batteries?
It has more of everything compared to the Roadster, and the Roadster is $100k.
If one of the biggest car + battery manufacturer (BYD) can't do it for $50k, I doubt Tesla can.
My guess is that it will be about $75k when it eventually comes.
But full-electric cars is unlikely to be the future - the future in my opionion is cars with small amount of batteries plus an on-board generator like the FCX, but we just don't know what fuel source we are going to use yet. Unless... in the next couple of years they can invent a new type of battery with much quicker charging time AND hgiher capacity by weight than types of Lithium batteries?
Jasandjules said:
And whilst is it sat overnight charging and the local chavs go socket dropping and unplugging them all/damaging the wires which run into the streets.
Plus, 300 miles is fine if realistic BUT what happens if you get stuck in a traffic jam? Until such time as all petrol stations also have a battery pack to swap over. And if a 220v charges in four hours how much will a station charge to quickly charge it up? Then if it needs to change the battery pack, how much will they charge for that?
If you get stuck in a traffic jam it will use.... no electricity, if you crawl along in start stop traffic it will use bugger all electricity. What is the chances that you will need to make 100 mile detours, very low. Plus, 300 miles is fine if realistic BUT what happens if you get stuck in a traffic jam? Until such time as all petrol stations also have a battery pack to swap over. And if a 220v charges in four hours how much will a station charge to quickly charge it up? Then if it needs to change the battery pack, how much will they charge for that?
Local chavs can very easily go around damaging your car without it being electric. I can see there being issues with people stealing your electricity though but they are hardly insurmountable. It would be quite feasible to lock the cable to the car or run it under the pavement, for people with drives charging it will be no issue at all.
As far as quick charging goes the infrastructure issues aren't really that great, there would be no benefit to running 3 phase power to peoples homes as if somebody wants to charge their car up at home they will probably be happy to let it charge for hours.
In most urban areas and work places 3 phase power isn't that far away, I doubt it would be that expensive to equip the odd town car park with power cables, and most motorway service stations could get by with a few dozen parking spaces with connections, your car would charge up while you have a burger and a piss (
If the internets had been invented when the diesel engine was originally invented, I imagine much the same discussions would have taken place.
"What happens when you run out of this diesel stuff?"
"It's way too expensive"
"No one would want to wait to fill up, and it'll be so messy"
"Where could you get it fixed when it breaks down?"
This may not be the direction that cars will end up taking, but it's a pretty credible step forward. Read through the press release and take in the features that make it such an advance. Huge carrying capacity from a saloon sized car. 'Near instant' recharging just by swapping over batteries. Flexible range (which, despite the naysayers is much more than the vast majority of drivers do in a day). Impressive acceleration and a healthy top speed.
There are issues about taking energy from the grid. However, one big power station is both more efficient and generally cleaner than the few thousand petrol cars it could potentially replace. Switch to some combination of nuclear and renewable resources according to your political leanings and you're good to go.
There is going to be an energy crunch in the next decade, regardless of whether we stick with petrol, move to LPG or hydrogen or run our cars on electricity. Of all of those, moving to electricity gives us the greatest flexibility as to where the power for our cars ultimately comes from.
But then, those smokey diesel engines, they'll never replace the horse, will they?
"What happens when you run out of this diesel stuff?"
"It's way too expensive"
"No one would want to wait to fill up, and it'll be so messy"
"Where could you get it fixed when it breaks down?"
This may not be the direction that cars will end up taking, but it's a pretty credible step forward. Read through the press release and take in the features that make it such an advance. Huge carrying capacity from a saloon sized car. 'Near instant' recharging just by swapping over batteries. Flexible range (which, despite the naysayers is much more than the vast majority of drivers do in a day). Impressive acceleration and a healthy top speed.
There are issues about taking energy from the grid. However, one big power station is both more efficient and generally cleaner than the few thousand petrol cars it could potentially replace. Switch to some combination of nuclear and renewable resources according to your political leanings and you're good to go.
There is going to be an energy crunch in the next decade, regardless of whether we stick with petrol, move to LPG or hydrogen or run our cars on electricity. Of all of those, moving to electricity gives us the greatest flexibility as to where the power for our cars ultimately comes from.
But then, those smokey diesel engines, they'll never replace the horse, will they?
carl_w said:
Talksteer said:
If you get stuck in a traffic jam it will use.... no electricity, if you crawl along in start stop traffic it will use bugger all electricity. (
That's right. In California no-one uses their aircon when stuck in a traffic jam. 
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