Penalty point on licence for littering WTF
Discussion
UncappedTag said:
The stuff I've seen lugged out of the window begs belief, so I'm all for it. Dirty pikey chavs who do it.
Dirty pikey chavs don't have licences to put points on and probably wont get caught. It'll be your average joe throwing bio-degradable material out the window that gets done for it.LOGiK said:
UncappedTag said:
The stuff I've seen lugged out of the window begs belief, so I'm all for it. Dirty pikey chavs who do it.
Dirty pikey chavs don't have licences to put points on and probably wont get caught. It'll be your average joe throwing bio-degradable material out the window that gets done for it.Antony Moxey said:
LongQ said:
Antony Moxey said:
It's a good idea IMO. Threat of points will help to reduce littering more than a £30 fine, and points to the driver - nothing wrong with that, driver's will soon be on the case regarding their passengers littering.
You sure?It doesn't seem to work very well for mobile phone use so why should it for littering?
On just about any short I will notice possibly four or five people hand holding a phone and often chatting animatedly. Either they have not heard of the penalties or they are unable to work out the cost benefit potential of a hands free unit (or non-use, if I may be so bold as to suggest it.)
Bizarre.
To be quite honest I don't much care about use for a few seconds in a safe situation and I have known a few people who were extremely capable of driving well and conversing at the same time. For extended periods. Not me, I tended to lose track of the conversation while I concentrated on the road so I gave up on the idea years ago.
Those who are not so capable are the ones that worry me.
But the point is that in my observation the ever increasing penalty for hand holding a phione whilst driving, whatever its merits and demerits, has not eliminated the perceived problem. Quite why something similar shoule be required or expected to deliver for 'littering; (a rather broad term and pone to abuse of purpose) I have no idea. Unless it isn;t expected to deliver anything more than instant fines and some 'we're doinig something' propaganda for 'the authorities'. In which case it will likely be a huge success.
Honestly. No problem with this whatsoever. I've had to dodge crap thrown out of some chavs car in front. So it's a danger to other drivers. It's only 1 point. But it may make people think a bit.
Love the fact that the same people complaining are probably the same that complain the courts are too soft on other crimes. Lets have harsh penalties for everything. Least we'd know where we stood.
Probably North Korea tbh
Love the fact that the same people complaining are probably the same that complain the courts are too soft on other crimes. Lets have harsh penalties for everything. Least we'd know where we stood.
Probably North Korea tbh
My point is, it's not going to solve any problems. Pikeys will still throw stuff out their windows because they don't care and this isn't going to affect them, it's only going to affect hard working citizens who do it. I certainly throw my apple cores out, though I ensure it's into a bush or something as I often drive through scenic routes. I keep any real litter for home in the bin - I just don't want to leave an apple core in my car all day to rot.
On the plus side, all these ridiculous points for everything now is going to mean that the whole point system ends up in shambles which is great.
On the plus side, all these ridiculous points for everything now is going to mean that the whole point system ends up in shambles which is great.
PS hopefully they can put spotters at fast food joints and catch those lazy sods who basically while stationary in a space finish eating and then proceed to empty the entire contents of their rag worm burger packaging on the floor. This out of anything really make me annoyed, as there are always adequate bins.
It's so tempting to walk upto there car pick up their rubbish and simply throw it back into their car.
It's so tempting to walk upto there car pick up their rubbish and simply throw it back into their car.
Edited by UncappedTag on Thursday 9th July 17:06
The reason I'm against it is because if two vehicles are speeding around here, the one that will get pulled is the one with tax and insurance, not the beat up clapped out 106 with the exhaust hanging off and 4 teenages smoking cannabis in the car. Why? Because police don't seem to want any confrontation these days. They want easy stops, not ones that will cause arguments.
It'll be exactly the same with this. The only people who will ever get hit with it are those who do it relatively innocently. It'll stop me doing it, but I don't see how I can be held responsible for what someone else in my car does - especially not when I'm supposed to be paying attention to the road. I don't have electric windows, I can't stop them from being opened. I don't have child locks or any of that. If someone wanted to jump out my car when I was driving I couldn't stop them so how am I expected to prevent someone throwing anything out my window other than cigarette ends because if someone lights up in my car I'd stop the car and tell them to walk home.
Really, that's an unjust system to hold the driver accountable for the actions of another person. Would you be defending plans to put points on a drivers licence if the passenger was using a mobile phone because it might be distracting? I really doubt it.
It'll be exactly the same with this. The only people who will ever get hit with it are those who do it relatively innocently. It'll stop me doing it, but I don't see how I can be held responsible for what someone else in my car does - especially not when I'm supposed to be paying attention to the road. I don't have electric windows, I can't stop them from being opened. I don't have child locks or any of that. If someone wanted to jump out my car when I was driving I couldn't stop them so how am I expected to prevent someone throwing anything out my window other than cigarette ends because if someone lights up in my car I'd stop the car and tell them to walk home.
Really, that's an unjust system to hold the driver accountable for the actions of another person. Would you be defending plans to put points on a drivers licence if the passenger was using a mobile phone because it might be distracting? I really doubt it.
LOGiK said:
Really, that's an unjust system to hold the driver accountable for the actions of another person. Would you be defending plans to put points on a drivers licence if the passenger was using a mobile phone because it might be distracting? I really doubt it.
I think I'm right in saying that the driver is held accountable if a passenger isn't wearing their seat belt.My car, my rules, if you don't like it get out and walk is my opinion.
edwardsje said:
LOGiK said:
Really, that's an unjust system to hold the driver accountable for the actions of another person. Would you be defending plans to put points on a drivers licence if the passenger was using a mobile phone because it might be distracting? I really doubt it.
I think I'm right in saying that the driver is held accountable if a passenger isn't wearing their seat belt.My car, my rules, if you don't like it get out and walk is my opinion.
LOGiK said:
If I got a point on my licence because a passenger in my car threw some orange peel out my window, I would collect all the rubbish in my house for a week and deposit it on the roads by hand.
This is only going to make people pissed off and do things like that, it's a stupid and absurd idea.
Sure you would............This is only going to make people pissed off and do things like that, it's a stupid and absurd idea.
What worries me most about this (and other laws) is the erosion of the assumption of innocence until proven guilty. Who would enforce this law and how would they do it? What proof would be needed to secure a conviction? If, as I suspect, the enforcement would be devolved down as far as possible and the burden of proof is entirely on the registered keeper to prove that it wasn't them, the chances of the owner picking up points and fines that they didn't deserve are far to great. Oh but I forget two important points, firstly Gordon is broke and needs to generate cash and secondly, the car driver is evil and must be punished.
Before anyone starts having a go, no I do not litter and I abhore those that do, especially the chav in the MuckD carpark that can't walk the two steps from his car to the bin he is parked next to. However, this constant chiseling away at the registered keeper must stop.
Before anyone starts having a go, no I do not litter and I abhore those that do, especially the chav in the MuckD carpark that can't walk the two steps from his car to the bin he is parked next to. However, this constant chiseling away at the registered keeper must stop.
Mr Gear said:
^ I agree with this.
On a more anecdotal note, I was filtering through some traffic on my motorbike once, and a guy in the queue up ahead dropped a cigarette box out of the window of his car. I stopped next to him and said
"Hey mate, you dropped some rubbish"
Chav scrote: "Yeah. So what?"
"So aren't you going to pick it up?"
Chav: "No, why don't YOU pick it up if you care so much"
"OK" I said, then leaned down, picked up the box and threw it in his face just as the lights turned green and I was able to zoom off!
Happy days.
Good show.On a more anecdotal note, I was filtering through some traffic on my motorbike once, and a guy in the queue up ahead dropped a cigarette box out of the window of his car. I stopped next to him and said
"Hey mate, you dropped some rubbish"
Chav scrote: "Yeah. So what?"
"So aren't you going to pick it up?"
Chav: "No, why don't YOU pick it up if you care so much"
"OK" I said, then leaned down, picked up the box and threw it in his face just as the lights turned green and I was able to zoom off!
Happy days.
When I was a kid my mum chucked some rubbish back into someones car that they had dropped.
I'd love to see huge fines for littering but I think giving points for it is daft unless the car is in motion and the litter could be a danger to other road users.
MKnight702 said:
What worries me most about this (and other laws) is the erosion of the assumption of innocence until proven guilty. Who would enforce this law and how would they do it? What proof would be needed to secure a conviction? If, as I suspect, the enforcement would be devolved down as far as possible and the burden of proof is entirely on the registered keeper to prove that it wasn't them, the chances of the owner picking up points and fines that they didn't deserve are far to great. Oh but I forget two important points, firstly Gordon is broke and needs to generate cash and secondly, the car driver is evil and must be punished.
Before anyone starts having a go, no I do not litter and I abhore those that do, especially the chav in the MuckD carpark that can't walk the two steps from his car to the bin he is parked next to. However, this constant chiseling away at the registered keeper must stop.
That's pretty much the argument I have against it. If I got done for doing it myself, fair enough, but being done because a passenger does it?Before anyone starts having a go, no I do not litter and I abhore those that do, especially the chav in the MuckD carpark that can't walk the two steps from his car to the bin he is parked next to. However, this constant chiseling away at the registered keeper must stop.
Hypothetical scenario: you have a child, 5 years old. Hot day your car has no AC and you're driving. Kid throws the empty packet of crisps out the window - driver gets fined and a point on their licence.
Since, apparantly, for this offence to be committed the "guilty" party doesn't actually have to commit an act, that means that if you're driving with your windows open and something blows out a window, you'd be liable for violating the offence. Hell, if someone didn't like you and happened to be in your car, they could drop something out the window in front of a cop car just to get you fined and a point stuck on your licence.
This is absurd. It's things like this that destroy the legal system. They're trying to create an offence for which you need yourself to have no intention to commit and in fact not having committed the act. A whole system revolving around omissions - or not being able to stop someone else from doing something, leads to a very poor and absurd legal system with more holes in it than George Bush in front of an Iraqi firing squad. It is not and should not be the duty of a party to be responsible for a third party's actions, regardless of where they take place, unless the party influenced the third party to act. Next they'll be slapping speed tickets on passengers for not making the driver slow down.
BBC Article said:
More than 700,000 bags of rubbish are collected from England's roads each year, including fast food litter, cigarette ends, drinks cartons and apple cores.
Cigarette ends sure as s
t aren't staying in my car, but I do wait until I'm home to throw sweet wrappers and the like in the bin.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff