Superchargers

[alfatim]

Anyone know why there are so many Mini eaton superchargers for sale?

Some are new, but even the BBRGTI conversions seem to use the eaton just change the pulley?

[rich-uk]

The Works upgrade replaces the stock supercharger with an uprated one.

[alfatim]

Why dont they just change the pulley size?

Apparently the eaton unit can be used on engines up to 3Litres.

[cptsideways]

I'm not the only one looking at these then?

Ten a week for sale on Ebay at least

[trooper1212]

I'm guessing I couldn't just bolt one of these onto my mk1 golf

[sheepy]

trooper1212 said:

I'm guessing I couldn't just bolt one of these onto my mk1 golf

Nah, needs to have a running engine

[alfa145uk]

The standard charger on the Mini Cooper S is an Eaton M45 4th generation.

The John Cooper Works kit upgrade involves the swap to an Eaton M45 5th generation - it still shifts the same volume of air, but has a different coating on the veins of the charger - to reduce heat transfer to the charge.

Yes there are many on Ebay, i got mine from a friend of a friend who works for BMW - so I got one with 7 miles on... pretty much brand new! It has been machined down to make it fit in my car (it had some massive lugs on it) and now just squeezes in between the block and the radiator fan.
Currently trying to sort the intercooler & piping out... then for ignition & fuelling...

The car :Alfa Romeo 145 2.0 16v Twin Spark year 2000.....

[trooper1212]

sheepy said:

trooper1212 said: I'm guessing I couldn't just bolt one of these onto my mk1 golf Nah, needs to have a running engine

Oi! I'm the proud owner of 2 running cars at the moment, which hasn't happened for a while!

My sister is looking to sell her shabby old midget, which would look nice with the 3.5 V8 we have laying round the place stuffed in it So I might be the proud owner of another non-working car in the near future...

[alfatim]

alfa145uk, Do we mean a camcoat type of coating? I was considering bolting one to my alfa 75 3litre racecar, just for fun mind you

[GreenV8S]

You might want to investigate this a bit further before you get too far. The M45 is tiny and a 3.0 engine will need more than it can provide even at zero boost. Really it is too small for a 2.0 let alone 3.0. I think you would need at least a 90 to get any significant boost out of it. Of course it is a lot bigger and harder to package, maybe this is why systems like Vortech are so popular.

[alfa145uk]

I'm not lowering the CR (unless the bottom end collapses, in which case I will install some lower CR pistons on rebuild) so I don't need a big charger.

If you check Eaton's page :
www.automotive.eaton.com/product/engine_controls/M45.html

You will find they state the M45 (their smallest model) is suitable for 2.0 - 3.0 engines

But then remember the CR of the 2.0 TS is 10:1. With the standard size crank pulley & standard size mini charger pulley the charger will spin at almost exactly 2 x crank speed - ideal seeing as the charger is designed to run to 14k rpm

The Vortech chargers are all centrifugal I believe - well I wanted to stay away from a centrifgual charger purely due to the fact the TS engine is VERY gutless at low revs - so I wanted a roots charger to provide more boost. As you will know a centrifugal charger has turbo like characterstics in terms of charge delivery.

@:Alfatim - I don't know what coating is on the standard charger, and what the difference is on the 5th generation uprated one - I *think* it's some ceramic coating, designed to reduce heat transfer.

If you want close up pics of the standard cooper s charger:

www.alfa145.com/upload/Eaton%20M45_1.jpg
www.alfa145.com/upload/Eaton%20M45_2.jpg
www.alfa145.com/upload/Eaton%20M45_3.jpg
www.alfa145.com/upload/Eaton%20M45_4.jpg
www.alfa145.com/upload/Eaton%20M45_5.jpg
www.alfa145.com/upload/Eaton%20M45_6.jpg
www.alfa145.com/upload/Eaton%20M45_7.jpg

before the charger had been trimmed down:
www.alfa145.com/upload/Eaton%20M45_8.jpg

after the charger had been trimmed down:
www.alfa145.com/upload/Resize%20of%202003_0101Image0018.JPG

No more lugs, so now it fits

I've got the brackets all done now, so am slowly taking it from there....


I know of a dutch guy running the M45 from a Merc (3rd generation) on a 2.0 TS and he needed to run an extra injector to control the fuel delivery accurately. It is expecting to push around the 210bhp mark, but the most significance is the low rpm torque increase - due to the nature of the TS engine.

Of course for your V6.. you could fit 2 I'm sure

[greenv8s]

The baby M45 has a displacement of about 700cc (45 ci) so at max revs it is theoretically capable of flowing roughly the same as a 3 liter 4-stroke engine at 6000 rpm. The efficiency drops off significantly at the top of the rev range though and if you can package it the larger chargers would be far more efficient. Increased efficiency equates to less crank power to drive it and less heat into the charge. It is quite easy to get this wrong and not achieve the power gains you would expect on paper; if you get it *really* wrong the supercharger can actually end up reducing power instead of increasing it. If you're interested in a decent size blower there's an M90 on ebay ( http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7900237811&category=32094 ) that is looking pretty cheap at the moment. This should be enough for engines up to 3 liters on low boost I would have thought.

[Buffalo]

alfa145uk said:

I'm not lowering the CR (unless the bottom end collapses, in which case I will install some lower CR pistons on rebuild) so I don't need a big charger. ...But then remember the CR of the 2.0 TS is 10:1.

Not an expert on this, but isn't that a slightly high CR for supercharging..? The eaton seems ok with high CR providing boost isnt mental howver.

Just taken delivery of my Opcon unit... Should be fun!

[matt_t16]

Depends on boost level, combustion chamber shape, piston design etc. etc. I run 1.8bar on a 9:1CR, do have lots of toys looking after the lumps health but providing you can keep the chambers cool and the pistons/rods/crank/bearings are physicaly strong enough to withstand the loads placed on them it'll be fine. Main dis-advantage of running low C/R and high boost is that it makes the engine extremely peaky in power delivery and a bit gutless low down, alot of this can be mapped out but even so.

Matt

[Pigeon]

cptsideways said:

I'm not the only one looking at these then? Ten a week for sale on Ebay at least

Ooh! Thanks for the info, I didn't know that. Supercharged two-stroke diesel V-twin project looking more hopeful... now with one supercharger for each pot.