Wolff on one driver leaving Mercedes...
Discussion
fastest driver to the showers!deadslow said:
I'd like to see them put Maldonado in Hamilton's seat and watch him come 1st or 2nd in the WDC. Its the car.
Imagine the fun you could have if drivers were forced to swap cars every other race. Take your foam seat, get a couple of days testing to set the car up how you like and off you go! 
I find it very hard to see a drivers talent when the car itself has such a performance advantage over it's nearest rival, so sticking Hamilton in a Williams or a Red Bull would certainly make things a bit more interesting!
And yes, I know, it's pure fantasy and not at all practical, but it's christmas, so just indulge me my fantasies!
eccles said:
I find it very hard to see a drivers talent when the car itself has such a performance advantage over it's nearest rival, so sticking Hamilton in a Williams or a Red Bull would certainly make things a bit more interesting!
And yes, I know, it's pure fantasy and not at all practical, but it's christmas, so just indulge me my fantasies!
Except Hamilton and Rosberg have been around long enough and in cars slow enough for us to know that they always make a difference regardless of car. Consider the 2014/5/6 Mercedes as a reward for all their years of doing their best for less/no reward. And yes, I know, it's pure fantasy and not at all practical, but it's christmas, so just indulge me my fantasies!
BarbaricAvatar said:
eccles said:
I find it very hard to see a drivers talent when the car itself has such a performance advantage over it's nearest rival, so sticking Hamilton in a Williams or a Red Bull would certainly make things a bit more interesting!
And yes, I know, it's pure fantasy and not at all practical, but it's christmas, so just indulge me my fantasies!
Except Hamilton and Rosberg have been around long enough and in cars slow enough for us to know that they always make a difference regardless of car. Consider the 2014/5/6 Mercedes as a reward for all their years of doing their best for less/no reward. And yes, I know, it's pure fantasy and not at all practical, but it's christmas, so just indulge me my fantasies!
BarbaricAvatar said:
eccles said:
I find it very hard to see a drivers talent when the car itself has such a performance advantage over it's nearest rival, so sticking Hamilton in a Williams or a Red Bull would certainly make things a bit more interesting!
And yes, I know, it's pure fantasy and not at all practical, but it's christmas, so just indulge me my fantasies!
Except Hamilton and Rosberg have been around long enough and in cars slow enough for us to know that they always make a difference regardless of car. Consider the 2014/5/6 Mercedes as a reward for all their years of doing their best for less/no reward. And yes, I know, it's pure fantasy and not at all practical, but it's christmas, so just indulge me my fantasies!
eccles said:
BarbaricAvatar said:
eccles said:
I find it very hard to see a drivers talent when the car itself has such a performance advantage over it's nearest rival, so sticking Hamilton in a Williams or a Red Bull would certainly make things a bit more interesting!
And yes, I know, it's pure fantasy and not at all practical, but it's christmas, so just indulge me my fantasies!
Except Hamilton and Rosberg have been around long enough and in cars slow enough for us to know that they always make a difference regardless of car. Consider the 2014/5/6 Mercedes as a reward for all their years of doing their best for less/no reward. And yes, I know, it's pure fantasy and not at all practical, but it's christmas, so just indulge me my fantasies!
If you're referring to Schumacher or Raikkonen; neither have been as impressive in their second F1 stints as their first, they'd both grown up too much outside of F1 and lost their "fire".
I tend to think it's reflective of the era, as you suggest. There is still the opportunity for drivers to make a difference if they work at it (Grosjean, Perez, Sainz and his oft-mentioned team-mate), but the majority "drive to a delta to preserve the car".
An easy day at work, the team thinks you've done the best you can, money in the pocket, debrief - tell them what they want to hear, then plane home with a beautiful woman. Sorted. It's just the way it is right now.
Also.. (here comes another of my wacky theories folks, turn away now if you wear grey)
..I wonder if a driver is being kept TOO busy behind the wheel so that he doesn't actually get a decent opportunity to make his own mark. Preserving tyres, monitoring temperatures, lift and coast, precise gear changes, engine modes, brake bias for sectors, close enough to use DRS, etc. On top of all that they're trying to spot their braking landmarks, hitting the apexes, not hitting the throttle too hard at exit and watching the mirrors for threats. Driving flat out every lap is just impossible in modern F1 because they don't have the spare capacity to concentrate on it. "Hammer time" lasts for what, 3 or 4 laps per race if he's allowed?
The young guys haven't been doing all this in their careers up til now, so Toro Rosso lets them off. After all, the team itself is only ever going to be a stepping stone so why burden their young charges with details that are going to hinder them and squander any potential the team may have of fortunate results? The old-hands however have been doing all this for a couple of years and -bizarre as it may sound- have forgotten how to race.
Now there's talk for 2017 of reintroducing 1 set of tyres for the race again? FFS...
The brains behind F1 may be educated, but they're not clever.
BarbaricAvatar said:
eccles said:
BarbaricAvatar said:
eccles said:
I find it very hard to see a drivers talent when the car itself has such a performance advantage over it's nearest rival, so sticking Hamilton in a Williams or a Red Bull would certainly make things a bit more interesting!
And yes, I know, it's pure fantasy and not at all practical, but it's christmas, so just indulge me my fantasies!
Except Hamilton and Rosberg have been around long enough and in cars slow enough for us to know that they always make a difference regardless of car. Consider the 2014/5/6 Mercedes as a reward for all their years of doing their best for less/no reward. And yes, I know, it's pure fantasy and not at all practical, but it's christmas, so just indulge me my fantasies!
If you're referring to Schumacher or Raikkonen; neither have been as impressive in their second F1 stints as their first, they'd both grown up too much outside of F1 and lost their "fire".
I tend to think it's reflective of the era, as you suggest. There is still the opportunity for drivers to make a difference if they work at it (Grosjean, Perez, Sainz and his oft-mentioned team-mate), but the majority "drive to a delta to preserve the car".
An easy day at work, the team thinks you've done the best you can, money in the pocket, debrief - tell them what they want to hear, then plane home with a beautiful woman. Sorted. It's just the way it is right now.
Also.. (here comes another of my wacky theories folks, turn away now if you wear grey)
..I wonder if a driver is being kept TOO busy behind the wheel so that he doesn't actually get a decent opportunity to make his own mark. Preserving tyres, monitoring temperatures, lift and coast, precise gear changes, engine modes, brake bias for sectors, close enough to use DRS, etc. On top of all that they're trying to spot their braking landmarks, hitting the apexes, not hitting the throttle too hard at exit and watching the mirrors for threats. Driving flat out every lap is just impossible in modern F1 because they don't have the spare capacity to concentrate on it. "Hammer time" lasts for what, 3 or 4 laps per race if he's allowed?
The young guys haven't been doing all this in their careers up til now, so Toro Rosso lets them off. After all, the team itself is only ever going to be a stepping stone so why burden their young charges with details that are going to hinder them and squander any potential the team may have of fortunate results? The old-hands however have been doing all this for a couple of years and -bizarre as it may sound- have forgotten how to race.
Now there's talk for 2017 of reintroducing 1 set of tyres for the race again? FFS...
The brains behind F1 may be educated, but they're not clever.
I suppose a slightly better way to illustrate my point would be when a dominant car starts a race out of it's usual position. This can lead to a cracking fight through the field, with DRS overtake after DRS overtake, or if the driver (often one of the ones that so many on here like to call the best Ever driver!) gets in a bit of a mood or has a paddy on, just drives around just inside the top 10, moaning about how unfair everything is.
To me it just shows how delicate this 'talent' can be. If everything is in place they are unbeatable, but change one minor thing, and these days, that so called talent can often be found wanting.
deadslow said:
37chevy said:
deadslow said:
Rosberg doesn't cheat first. He's not the guy giving them the headaches.
AND the fact Rosberg turned his engine up at Hungary last year leading to all the inter team problems, and running into Hamilton on purpose at spa.......but yeh Lewis is clearly the devil and Nico is an absolute angel......what ever!
Neither are blameless but at the end of the day they both want to win, look at when Lewis accused Rosberg of chopping in front of him without Rosberg being close to him (Lewis had just run off track) it was Lewis trying to make sure the team was on his side & keeping up the pressure on Rosberg.
It's just tactics both do it as do all F1 drivers with their team mates the difference is that it's not aired out over the Team Radio!
ZX10R NIN said:
Lauda said Hamilton turned up his engine against team orders but hey it's racing Hamilton has done some hard moves this season he made the most of the Spa incident in 2014 which Rosberg never really shook off until late this season when Hamilton really took the mick.
Neither are blameless but at the end of the day they both want to win, look at when Lewis accused Rosberg of chopping in front of him without Rosberg being close to him (Lewis had just run off track) it was Lewis trying to make sure the team was on his side & keeping up the pressure on Rosberg.
It's just tactics both do it as do all F1 drivers with their team mates the difference is that it's not aired out over the Team Radio!
Also the cars out in front are under closer scrutiny, more people care if it's the difference between winning and coming second even if the misdemeanour is the same.Neither are blameless but at the end of the day they both want to win, look at when Lewis accused Rosberg of chopping in front of him without Rosberg being close to him (Lewis had just run off track) it was Lewis trying to make sure the team was on his side & keeping up the pressure on Rosberg.
It's just tactics both do it as do all F1 drivers with their team mates the difference is that it's not aired out over the Team Radio!
When Barrichello was asked to move over and let Schumacher finish 2nd in Austria 2001, people accepted it as part of F1. When Rubens was asked to move aside and let Schumacher win the following year at the same track, the world exploded and all team orders were banned. The only difference between the two situations was the second time it was for the win.
I was disappointed this year that we only got 1 instance of a Mercedes driver taking it too far (Austin turn 1), i was also disappointed that the stewards didn't look at the situation. Is it really now as simple as "A team doesn't protest so therefore the stewards don't investigate"?
The problem that I have with all the cars in f1 at the moment is that during the race none of them are driving near the limit of the car. There saving fuel or tyres. Nobody who has got to f1 even pasta crashda Maldonado is going to crash or make a mistake driving at 90% of a f1 cars capability, it's like a "Sunday" drive for them. Only during qualifying is there a real chance of making a mistake.
Moominator said:
I'm a Hamo fan (sorry) but I'd like to see him in a different marque again. Imagine winning titles with three different teams? Thatd show talent and adaptability. So Hamilton out please.
I can't see Vettel and Hamilton in the same team - certainly not Ferrari. They want what they had in the Todt-Brawn-MS days - a #1 and a guy who will pick up wins when their #1 fails to do so.I also can't see Seb wanting someone who would give him a real run for his money, at least not until he's got another title under is belt. He might be open to the challenge then.
Moominator said:
No another marque, Renault or Williams.
If he did and won within two seasons I'd place him well above many multiple champs.)
Oh gosh, you're not one of those are you?If he did and won within two seasons I'd place him well above many multiple champs.)
The driver with the best car nearly always wins the chapionship. The last time they didn't was 2007 when McLaren imploded, and before that we're back into the 80's, namely '86 when Prost beat the Williams because of tyres at the last race.
Vettel's car domination was less extreme than Hamilton's has been over the past 2 years, yet people say he's not in 'the same class'. I can only assume it's a country thing.
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