F1 on Channel 4

[Condi]

rdjohn said:

Liberty control all race output. They just seem to have lost their touch since Bernie’s day. There was an interesting post a couple of years back that suggested moving from 4:3 to 16:9 frame size had a huge affect on the apparent speed of target car.

Perhaps moving to 4K TV could have had a similar impact. However, I do think that current onboard cameras give us a fantastic perspective these days.

I watched the MotoGP followed by the F1 over the weekend and the difference in camera work, editing and graphics was astounding. MotoGP does an amazing job in that regard, the production is really slick. By comparison F1 looked 10 years behind.

[Kraken]

Probably is 10 years behind. Bernies job was to get the maximum value for the shareholders (CVC) not invest money into the product for the long term. He succeeded spectacularly on both fronts.

[rdjohn]

cuprabob said:

I think she is going to be at some races this year for C4

Perhaps the British GP, but someone suggested that they are not allowed onto the grid, or the Bull Pit to do interviews, they are obliged to use SKY interviews.

So there is no demand for her excellent skills. Which is a great pity.

[thegreenhell]

I'm slightly surprised that C4 bother going to the expense of sending a team to the races this year, when they could do everything from a studio. I guess DC still wants to be at all the races, and as it's his production company he can call those shots.

[rdjohn]

...but you can’t get Prost and Albion to interview from a studio. They are doing a great job with the small resources that they are using.

[North West Tom]

Found it pretty savage that Sky Sports played their F1 advert and their Now TV/F1 deal advert during the breaks of the Quali highlights and race highlights on Channel 4 at the weekend.

[Mr Pointy]

Condi said:

I watched the MotoGP followed by the F1 over the weekend and the difference in camera work, editing and graphics was astounding. MotoGP does an amazing job in that regard, the production is really slick. By comparison F1 looked 10 years behind.

Have a look back at the MotoGP coverage though & see how much of the midfield & rear-end battles are covered. I think you'll find it's very little & by far the majority is concentrated on the front end of the race. It's much easier to do this than try & show the pit stops (because there aren't any) & pick up when something interesting is happening between drivers in P7/8/9. Just following the front of the race is piss easy to direct.

[Mr Pointy]

rdjohn said:

Having a delayed transmission obviously helps, but yesterday, they were way above the 2-hours I could devote to SKY. Ironic that the intermissions were crammed with ad-slots for SKY F1.

Why does a delayed transmission help?

[Kraken]

ajprice said:

Any word on who is standing in for DC on the commentary at the next race?

Mark Webber

[rdjohn]

Mr Pointy said:

rdjohn said:

Having a delayed transmission obviously helps, but yesterday, they were way above the 2-hours I could devote to SKY. Ironic that the intermissions were crammed with ad-slots for SKY F1.

Why does a delayed transmission help?

With a live transmission you only have fixed bits at the beginning and end. On Sunday, knowing that the race was not too exciting allowed them to add stuff that might not normally have been there. The piece with Prost at the end being a good example.

My wife would not get up early on a Sunday and so, being very sad, I saw both SKY and C4s coverage. There was one incident, I think Norris’s front wing which was shown slightly out of sequence. I also sometimes think that Ben’s commentary is a bit too intuitive. SKY just get it wrong for much of the time - explaining who was covering who, during the second pit stops.

But on the whole, I think delaying allows for excellent editing of the race, without being confined to just a few minutes of highlights, like Match of the Day showing only goals and near misses, for example.

I just wish it was the other way round C4s team skilfully covering the races and SKY stuck with the highlights.

[thegreenhell]

Kraken said:

ajprice said:

Any word on who is standing in for DC on the commentary at the next race?

Mark Webber

Oh god, really? I watched something recently that used him as a guest commentator (possibly Goodwood the other weekend?) and he was awful, even worse than when he tries to interview someone for the C4 F1 programme. He doesn't seem to be able to communicate clearly and spontaneously in that environment, which is the exact opposite of what you need from a commentator.

[entropy]

Mr Pointy said:

Condi said:

I watched the MotoGP followed by the F1 over the weekend and the difference in camera work, editing and graphics was astounding. MotoGP does an amazing job in that regard, the production is really slick. By comparison F1 looked 10 years behind.

Have a look back at the MotoGP coverage though & see how much of the midfield & rear-end battles are covered. I think you'll find it's very little & by far the majority is concentrated on the front end of the race. It's much easier to do this than try & show the pit stops (because there aren't any) & pick up when something interesting is happening between drivers in P7/8/9. Just following the front of the race is piss easy to direct.

That is my major gripe with MotoGP TV coverage. Unless you're in the top 6/peleton or crashed/fallen off then those teams and riders will be completely ignored. So for someone like myself who likes MotoGP but isn't hardcore struggles to muster the enthusiasm to care about KTM, I've lost interest in the Espagaro brothers with the same happening to Syarhin (Thai GP withstanding).

On the other hand you could argue F1 is so desperate to show action....

[telecat]

North West Tom said:

Found it pretty savage that Sky Sports played their F1 advert and their Now TV/F1 deal advert during the breaks of the Quali highlights and race highlights on Channel 4 at the weekend.

And they are getting the C4 team to name drop that Sky have the race live!! Bit of desperation there.

[Condi]

entropy said:

Mr Pointy said:

Condi said:

I watched the MotoGP followed by the F1 over the weekend and the difference in camera work, editing and graphics was astounding. MotoGP does an amazing job in that regard, the production is really slick. By comparison F1 looked 10 years behind.

Have a look back at the MotoGP coverage though & see how much of the midfield & rear-end battles are covered. I think you'll find it's very little & by far the majority is concentrated on the front end of the race. It's much easier to do this than try & show the pit stops (because there aren't any) & pick up when something interesting is happening between drivers in P7/8/9. Just following the front of the race is piss easy to direct.

That is my major gripe with MotoGP TV coverage. Unless you're in the top 6/peleton or crashed/fallen off then those teams and riders will be completely ignored. So for someone like myself who likes MotoGP but isn't hardcore struggles to muster the enthusiasm to care about KTM, I've lost interest in the Espagaro brothers with the same happening to Syarhin (Thai GP withstanding).

On the other hand you could argue F1 is so desperate to show action....

Does F1 not do the same? How much action from the back of the field do they comment on?

Its only because overtaking is such a rarity that a Force India overtaking another Force India is worthy of note

[Mr Pointy]

rdjohn said:

Mr Pointy said:

rdjohn said:

Having a delayed transmission obviously helps, but yesterday, they were way above the 2-hours I could devote to SKY. Ironic that the intermissions were crammed with ad-slots for SKY F1.

Why does a delayed transmission help?

With a live transmission you only have fixed bits at the beginning and end. On Sunday, knowing that the race was not too exciting allowed them to add stuff that might not normally have been there. The piece with Prost at the end being a good example.

My wife would not get up early on a Sunday and so, being very sad, I saw both SKY and C4s coverage. There was one incident, I think Norris’s front wing which was shown slightly out of sequence. I also sometimes think that Ben’s commentary is a bit too intuitive. SKY just get it wrong for much of the time - explaining who was covering who, during the second pit stops.

But on the whole, I think delaying allows for excellent editing of the race, without being confined to just a few minutes of highlights, like Match of the Day showing only goals and near misses, for example.

I just wish it was the other way round C4s team skilfully covering the races and SKY stuck with the highlights.

Well I'm not convinced you know how a TV production is put together to be honest. Even a live broadcast has defined segments be they talking to camera, a pre-recoded insert or a ad break. Weeks ahead of the race day the production team are organising people to interview & items to record as everyone has very busy schedules when at a GP. You don't think they just grabbed Prost as he was passing do you? They would have needed to organise that way in advance.

With the new C4 format they know exactly how much race they can show - Sky have defined it - & they won't be showing a second less than they are allowed to no matter dull the race is. They know how much time they have to fill with other stuff & it's much more than last year. Given the added restriction on pit & interview pen access (Sky imposed again) they have to fill the time with stuff like 'coming next' stings & the like which all use up time. We hate it but Whisper have very litle to work with. The comparision with MOTD isn't really relevant as they are trying to cut down six 90 minute games into about an hour so it's not surprising the vast majority of the game is cut out.

Like you I much prefer the C4 coverage but I do wonder if C4 & Whisper will stick with it given how little material they are being allowed. They are doing thier best but unless Liberty help them out I fear for them.

[North West Tom]

telecat said:

North West Tom said:

Found it pretty savage that Sky Sports played their F1 advert and their Now TV/F1 deal advert during the breaks of the Quali highlights and race highlights on Channel 4 at the weekend.

And they are getting the C4 team to name drop that Sky have the race live!! Bit of desperation there.

Wow, didn't pick up on that! Bet Steve Jones loves it!

[TheDeuce]

Mr Pointy said:

rdjohn said:

Mr Pointy said:

rdjohn said:

Having a delayed transmission obviously helps, but yesterday, they were way above the 2-hours I could devote to SKY. Ironic that the intermissions were crammed with ad-slots for SKY F1.

Why does a delayed transmission help?

With a live transmission you only have fixed bits at the beginning and end. On Sunday, knowing that the race was not too exciting allowed them to add stuff that might not normally have been there. The piece with Prost at the end being a good example.

My wife would not get up early on a Sunday and so, being very sad, I saw both SKY and C4s coverage. There was one incident, I think Norris’s front wing which was shown slightly out of sequence. I also sometimes think that Ben’s commentary is a bit too intuitive. SKY just get it wrong for much of the time - explaining who was covering who, during the second pit stops.

But on the whole, I think delaying allows for excellent editing of the race, without being confined to just a few minutes of highlights, like Match of the Day showing only goals and near misses, for example.

I just wish it was the other way round C4s team skilfully covering the races and SKY stuck with the highlights.

Well I'm not convinced you know how a TV production is put together to be honest. Even a live broadcast has defined segments be they talking to camera, a pre-recoded insert or a ad break. Weeks ahead of the race day the production team are organising people to interview & items to record as everyone has very busy schedules when at a GP. You don't think they just grabbed Prost as he was passing do you? They would have needed to organise that way in advance.

With the new C4 format they know exactly how much race they can show - Sky have defined it - & they won't be showing a second less than they are allowed to no matter dull the race is. They know how much time they have to fill with other stuff & it's much more than last year. Given the added restriction on pit & interview pen access (Sky imposed again) they have to fill the time with stuff like 'coming next' stings & the like which all use up time. We hate it but Whisper have very litle to work with. The comparision with MOTD isn't really relevant as they are trying to cut down six 90 minute games into about an hour so it's not surprising the vast majority of the game is cut out.

Like you I much prefer the C4 coverage but I do wonder if C4 & Whisper will stick with it given how little material they are being allowed. They are doing thier best but unless Liberty help them out I fear for them.

Having just come off a live TX show, I can confirm that that the running order and each segment are set in advance and are generally immovable. To change the plan even slightly will result in problems as people will have agreed cues, where to stand, done some camera rehearsals etc. There are occasions when something unexpected happens and the director makes a call to get a camera on it and will select an upcoming segment to sacrifice so that the rest of the running order is maintained - but it is rare, and will normally cause a lot of disruption to what is already a hectic and stressful experience. I hate live TV... The pressure can be so high it's actually put me off watching most live TV these days as I find myself imagining the process!!

Having said all that, on another thread I swapped some comments with someone that had worked in FOM TV and there were quite a few differences between how most live shows are made, and how live motorsport is handled. But I'm willing to bet that the running order is followed at all times still, as there are just too many people involved to make and translate last minute changes without things going awry.

[entropy]

Condi said:

Does F1 not do the same? How much action from the back of the field do they comment on?

Its only because overtaking is such a rarity that a Force India overtaking another Force India is worthy of note

There's action further down the grid and it does get shown. That's why F1 has managed to endure with me.

I very much remember the 2009 British GP and there was a fantastic battle between Alonso and Hamilton when they were in crap cars fighting outside the top 10. Would it happen in MotoGP with Lorenzo and Rossi? Forget it, they'd rather show Marquez scraping his elbows whilst comfortably in the lead.

[rdjohn]

TheDeuce said:

Having just come off a live TX show, I can confirm that that the running order and each segment are set in advance and are generally immovable. To change the plan even slightly will result in problems as people will have agreed cues, where to stand, done some camera rehearsals etc. There are occasions when something unexpected happens and the director makes a call to get a camera on it and will select an upcoming segment to sacrifice so that the rest of the running order is maintained - but it is rare, and will normally cause a lot of disruption to what is already a hectic and stressful experience. I hate live TV... The pressure can be so high it's actually put me off watching most live TV these days as I find myself imagining the process!!

Having said all that, on another thread I swapped some comments with someone that had worked in FOM TV and there were quite a few differences between how most live shows are made, and how live motorsport is handled. But I'm willing to bet that the running order is followed at all times still, as there are just too many people involved to make and translate last minute changes without things going awry.

So, we are really presuming that they would have interviewed Alex Albion, if he had DNF’d on the first lap. He would have been long gone.

[TheDeuce]

rdjohn said:

So, we are really presuming that they would have interviewed Alex Albion, if he had DNF’d on the first lap. He would have been long gone.

No, the person they interview is down to fate, it depends what happens. If nothing happens they will fall back to interviewing someone from Pirelli or some other technical boffin you couldn't care less about.

They can interview whoever they wish at a moments notice, as the teams/drivers are inclined to give their time to rights buying broadcasters, regardless of whether they really wish to or not. If something big happens the Director might make a call to shift a planned interview segment forwards and push another segment back. But overall the content for the entire show is planned in advance and won't change. It can't, you can't simply re-write plans in real time when there are so many people involved. Each segment has to run as it was planned - even if the order is shifted occasionally.