New HALO system tested

[Vaud]

patmahe said:

I guess someone who knows more about F1 than me has thought about this and I'm not seeing the full picture.

Have a read:

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/articles/featur...

[patmahe]

Thanks Vaud, had a read of that and it certainly clarifies some things, I'm certainly happier knowing the halo would be constructed from Titanium. My choice would still be the canopy but I guess its not my head in the firing line so my opinion is less important than the drivers. No solution is perfect I guess.

[Vaud]

patmahe said:

Thanks Vaud, had a read of that and it certainly clarifies some things, I'm certainly happier knowing the halo would be constructed from Titanium. My choice would still be the canopy but I guess its not my head in the firing line so my opinion is less important than the drivers. No solution is perfect I guess.

I think it is a whole load of compromises. I still haven't decided, and it's irrelevant - but I would tend toward status quo with perhaps some better continuity in trackside safety for consistency. Not all countries are equal in their marshalling.

[ERIKM400]

Slightly off topic.

The decision to develop and research the HALO system is not really inspired by concerns about driver safety in F1, it is more a politically inspired initiative taken in the wake of the Jules Bianchi's accident by the FIA who felt they had to do "something" and decided to concentrate on a technical "solution" rather than properly investigate and remediate the problems that led to Jules fatal accident.

Would the HALO system have prevented Jules Bianchi's death? No: The crash against the Caterpillar ripped the rollover bar straight off his car and would have done the same with the HALO system.
Other example: would this system have prevented Felipe Massa's accident? Once again: no. The spring would have hit his helmet in exactly the same place.

Were there other factors that could have influenced the outcome for Jules Bianchi (and Felipe Massa)? Yes. Are they being adressed? No.

I'm not going to elaborate any further (I don't want to jeopardise my professional and motorsport medical career) but for some valuable insights please read Gary Hartstein's opinions on these matters (Google: formerF1doc).

[LivingTheDream]

What I don't understand is why is there a need to mandate a single solution? This seems to be happening more and more.

Why not let the teams choose and design their own solutions - as long as it meets a set of crash and driver escape tests (much like the rest of the car).

[Vaud]

LivingTheDream said:

What I don't understand is why is there a need to mandate a single solution? This seems to be happening more and more.

Why not let the teams choose and design their own solutions - as long as it meets a set of crash and driver escape tests (much like the rest of the car).

Partly to reduce cost I guess - like HANS, why reinvent the wheel?

Also a safety device, you need a standard way of removing it to extract a driver. You can't have 10+ different connecting mechanisms for marshall to struggle with if a driver needs extraction.

[Fire99]

ERIKM400 said:

Slightly off topic.

The decision to develop and research the HALO system is not really inspired by concerns about driver safety in F1, it is more a politically inspired initiative taken in the wake of the Jules Bianchi's accident by the FIA who felt they had to do "something" and decided to concentrate on a technical "solution" rather than properly investigate and remediate the problems that led to Jules fatal accident.

Would the HALO system have prevented Jules Bianchi's death? No: The crash against the Caterpillar ripped the rollover bar straight off his car and would have done the same with the HALO system.
Other example: would this system have prevented Felipe Massa's accident? Once again: no. The spring would have hit his helmet in exactly the same place.

Were there other factors that could have influenced the outcome for Jules Bianchi (and Felipe Massa)? Yes. Are they being adressed? No.

I'm not going to elaborate any further (I don't want to jeopardise my professional and motorsport medical career) but for some valuable insights please read Gary Hartstein's opinions on these matters (Google: formerF1doc).

Exactly... F1 has more 'smoke n mirrors' going on behind the scenes than there is racing on the track..
This Halo system is about as relevant to F1 safety as believing putting a wind turbine on the top of a hill will stop the world's climate changing..

[tight fart]

Fire99 said:

Exactly... F1 has more 'smoke n mirrors' going on behind the scenes than there is racing on the track..
This Halo system is about as relevant to F1 safety as believing putting a wind turbine on the top of a hill will stop the world's climate changing..

I know they are there to help with Global warming but I think you'll find they are wind generators, they blow and cool the planet down.

[Doink]

Another redbull rendering but Charlie's coming across as very stubborn bordering arrogant, looks like he's already made his mind up when really he should be getting a rig mocked up asap and testing and improving the hell out of something that enhances instead of detracts from the looks of an f1 car never mind the safety bit, OK you could still get hit from above but the same goes for the halo, the screen offers full face protection - the halo doesn't, what's not to like about the screen solution?


http://mobile.newsnow.co.uk/A/2/821837641?-2724:76...

[rscott]

No suggestions from RB as to how they keep it clean, for example. Isn't that The biggest problem with a screen?

I see Massa has already criticised that design as he feels it would impact on side visibility too much.

[patmahe]

rscott said:

No suggestions from RB as to how they keep it clean, for example. Isn't that The biggest problem with a screen?

I see Massa has already criticised that design as he feels it would impact on side visibility too much.

Personally I prefer Red Bulls solution,I wonder if they could adopt something like the Volvo pillar solution below.



As for keeping it clean, surely a simple wiper or tearoff solution could be found.

[markcoznottz]

Fire99 said:

ERIKM400 said:

Slightly off topic.

The decision to develop and research the HALO system is not really inspired by concerns about driver safety in F1, it is more a politically inspired initiative taken in the wake of the Jules Bianchi's accident by the FIA who felt they had to do "something" and decided to concentrate on a technical "solution" rather than properly investigate and remediate the problems that led to Jules fatal accident.

Would the HALO system have prevented Jules Bianchi's death? No: The crash against the Caterpillar ripped the rollover bar straight off his car and would have done the same with the HALO system.
Other example: would this system have prevented Felipe Massa's accident? Once again: no. The spring would have hit his helmet in exactly the same place.

Were there other factors that could have influenced the outcome for Jules Bianchi (and Felipe Massa)? Yes. Are they being adressed? No.

I'm not going to elaborate any further (I don't want to jeopardise my professional and motorsport medical career) but for some valuable insights please read Gary Hartstein's opinions on these matters (Google: formerF1doc).

Exactly... F1 has more 'smoke n mirrors' going on behind the scenes than there is racing on the track..
This Halo system is about as relevant to F1 safety as believing putting a wind turbine on the top of a hill will stop the world's climate changing..

Agreed, it may have helped surtees, but that wasn't an F1 car. Also it's worth noting in that instance the car that hit the barrier lost its wheel, and surtees car did also, presumably the tethers in f1 prevent this? The wheels on Alonsos car all stayed on.

[Vaud]

markcoznottz said:

Agreed, it may have helped surtees, but that wasn't an F1 car. Also it's worth noting in that instance the car that hit the barrier lost its wheel, and surtees car did also, presumably the tethers in f1 prevent this? The wheels on Alonsos car all stayed on.

The wheel that killed Surtees had a tether - and, "The single-seater cars were designed by the Williams F1 team to safety standards complying with the 2005 Formula One regulations."

[Mike 007]

Apart from the looks being awful I dont think that safety would be significantly improved with a halo. Would Alonso have been able to get out of his car as quickly and easily as he did this weekend? If the cars upside down going through the gravel wont it just dig in and shovel gravel into the cockpit?

[mollytherocker]

Mike 007 said:

Apart from the looks being awful I dont think that safety would be significantly improved with a halo. Would Alonso have been able to get out of his car as quickly and easily as he did this weekend? If the cars upside down going through the gravel wont it just dig in and shovel gravel into the cockpit?

We cant damn it because of one crash. And anyway, so what if he hadnt of got out of it as quick? There are some crashes where you dont want the driver to move, and others where he needs to!

There are so many variables, that there is no ideal solution, because the next crash will be unique.

Its a compromise, and my gut tells me that a halo style protection is not the way to go, but hey, I am not doing proper intensive analysis into the crashes.

[suffolk009]

^^^ As I wrote somewhere above Gary Anderson did a bit in Autosport about these. He was worried that it was only being tested by having tyre shot at it (no wheel or suspension parts). But his main concern is that a bar is intended to deflect things upwards. It may also deflect things downwards, into the driver.

[markcoznottz]

Vaud said:

markcoznottz said:

Agreed, it may have helped surtees, but that wasn't an F1 car. Also it's worth noting in that instance the car that hit the barrier lost its wheel, and surtees car did also, presumably the tethers in f1 prevent this? The wheels on Alonsos car all stayed on.

The wheel that killed Surtees had a tether - and, "The single-seater cars were designed by the Williams F1 team to safety standards complying with the 2005 Formula One regulations."

Both wheels came off too easily though, the car that lost its rear wheel that hit surtees, and then his own car when he crashed lost its rear wheel, which could in itself have caused an accident

[EnglishTony]

Are there any other solutions besides the Halo or RB screen?

Neither seems wholly satisfactory.

[Doink]

EnglishTony said:

Are there any other solutions besides the Halo or RB screen?

Neither seems wholly satisfactory.

There's the canopy

[longshot]

EnglishTony said:

Are there any other solutions besides the Halo or RB screen?

Neither seems wholly satisfactory.