The Official 2016 Austrian Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
deadslow said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
not sure if you are on a wind up but its called banter .
it doesn't always come across like (good humoured) banter if you are the person expressing the minority view on here. Its like mob rule at times. True.
deadslow said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
deadslow said:
it doesn't always come across like (good humoured) banter if you are the person expressing the minority view on here. Its like mob rule at times. True.
its just words on a screen not a mob banging on the front door.
RichB said:
That was me so I'll pick up on your point. What I actually said was that people who criticise him for his clothes, friends, gold chains etc. are bigoted. I would have said narrow minded but I tried to use a grown up word seeing as I assumed most people would understand the meaning. If you are a not a fan of his for motor racing reason then you have nothing to concern you. If however you do not know the guy but think that the moronic criticisms of people for their lifestyle is acceptable then, yes, you are a bigot. I assume you personally are not bigoted and accept that their are people who are perfectly fine people and good at their job but do things that don't fit your accepted lifestyle and you would not criticise them for that. Happy?
folks who laugh at LH's fashion etc sense are not moronic or bigots. The guy sets himself up intentionally to provoke response, probably to create a 'brand'. No problem. But folks just like a laugh, also no problem. Have a nice day HustleRussell said:
Dr Z said:
Gosh yes, but wasn't johnxjsc1985 insinuating…
Someone insinuated that I’d claimed Rosberg had tried to squeeze Hamilton off the circuit in the braking zone earlier. I find it easier to ignore insinuations!Dr Z said:
I tend to actively avoid discussing anything to do with Hamilton in here (even the positives). You get the feeling that people are just waiting to jump on you with the merest hint of any negatives about him. It's pretty unpleasant.
Tiresome isn’t it, Say something positive about Rosberg and a flood of people will start bleating on about how much better Hamilton is, say something positive about Hamilton and his detractors will call you a ‘fanboy’ and start going on about his lifestyle choices. 
It often seems rather pointless posting in here, which is a shame as I like a good discussion on racecraft.
Personally, I wonder why Hamilton turned in when Rosberg was still alongside, he had more than a car's width on the outside. It was tarmac run-off too, had he needed it, so not like being squeezed onto grass. Nico was aggressive, there's no doubt about that, but he did turn in, it was just very late.
Regarding the second impact - I'm not sure of the rules about letting another car back on the circuit, but I'm fairly certain that it's the responsibility of the joining car to do it safely.
SlipStream77 said:
It often seems rather pointless posting in here, which is a shame as I like a good discussion on racecraft.
Personally, I wonder why Hamilton turned in when Rosberg was still alongside, he had more than a car's width on the outside. It was tarmac run-off too, had he needed it, so not like being squeezed onto grass. Nico was aggressive, there's no doubt about that, but he did turn in, it was just very late.
Regarding the second impact - I'm not sure of the rules about letting another car back on the circuit, but I'm fairly certain that it's the responsibility of the joining car to do it safely.
SlipStream77 said:
It often seems rather pointless posting in here, which is a shame as I like a good discussion on racecraft.
Personally, I wonder why Hamilton turned in when Rosberg was still alongside, he had more than a car's width on the outside. It was tarmac run-off too, had he needed it, so not like being squeezed onto grass. Nico was aggressive, there's no doubt about that, but he did turn in, it was just very late.
Regarding the second impact - I'm not sure of the rules about letting another car back on the circuit, but I'm fairly certain that it's the responsibility of the joining car to do it safely.
Nico doesn't seem to have mastered it yet.
deadslow said:
RichB said:
That was me so I'll pick up on your point. What I actually said was that people who criticise him for his clothes, friends, gold chains etc. are bigoted. I would have said narrow minded but I tried to use a grown up word seeing as I assumed most people would understand the meaning. If you are a not a fan of his for motor racing reason then you have nothing to concern you. If however you do not know the guy but think that the moronic criticisms of people for their lifestyle is acceptable then, yes, you are a bigot. I assume you personally are not bigoted and accept that their are people who are perfectly fine people and good at their job but do things that don't fit your accepted lifestyle and you would not criticise them for that. Happy?
folks who laugh at LH's fashion etc sense are not moronic or bigots. The guy sets himself up intentionally to provoke response, probably to create a 'brand'. No problem. But folks just like a laugh, also no problem. Have a nice day I struggle to believe that a week later, on the eve of Siverstone, this issue is even raising eyebrows.
The Stewards found Nico guilty, without seeking the opinion of Lewis. They gave him a small tap on the wrist for his misdemeanours.
The TV footage looks pretty damming against Nico. Nico's brakes were off. His supersoft tyres were off when compared to Lewis's Softs, yet still a few people can see that Lewis made a fairly crude error when history suggest in these circumstances he is usually right.
To the doubters, just look at the video evidence, think about the advice that Lewis's engineer gave. " The soft was the tyre to win the race" Nico did not have that option.
FOR GOD'S SAKE, JUST MOVE ON!
The Stewards found Nico guilty, without seeking the opinion of Lewis. They gave him a small tap on the wrist for his misdemeanours.
The TV footage looks pretty damming against Nico. Nico's brakes were off. His supersoft tyres were off when compared to Lewis's Softs, yet still a few people can see that Lewis made a fairly crude error when history suggest in these circumstances he is usually right.
To the doubters, just look at the video evidence, think about the advice that Lewis's engineer gave. " The soft was the tyre to win the race" Nico did not have that option.
FOR GOD'S SAKE, JUST MOVE ON!
longblackcoat said:
So why do you think the stewards penalised Rosberg?
It's a good question. I suspect it was due to the way in which he tried to squeeze Lewis - going straight and very deep into the corner rather than turning in late on an increasing radius. It may have had something to do with the way Nico blocked Lewis from re-joining the track - like I said - I'm not aware of the rules in that scenario.
SlipStream77 said:
Personally, I wonder why Hamilton turned in when Rosberg was still alongside, he had more than a car's width on the outside. It was tarmac run-off too, had he needed it, so not like being squeezed onto grass. Nico was aggressive, there's no doubt about that, but he did turn in, it was just very late.
Hamilton was on for the pass and had gotten half the job done before the turn in point. However as you can't be seen to gain an advantage by leaving the track his only options were to leave the track (wasting the overtaking opportunity), brake and tuck in behind Rosberg (conceding the place and probably guaranteeing a 2nd place finish) or turning in and hoping Rosberg does the same to avoid a collision.Stewards said:
"Having taken note of the extensive evidence given by both drivers and the video and telemetry data, it was apparent that Car 44 (HAM) was in front of Car 6 (ROS) – i.e. more than fully alongside – and that the driver of Car 44 could have clearly made the turn (T2) on the track, if not for the resultant collision."
"Car 6 did not allow Car 44 'racing room' and hence the driver of Car 6 was responsible for the collision."
"Car 6 did not allow Car 44 'racing room' and hence the driver of Car 6 was responsible for the collision."
HustleRussell said:
SlipStream77 said:
Personally, I wonder why Hamilton turned in when Rosberg was still alongside, he had more than a car's width on the outside. It was tarmac run-off too, had he needed it, so not like being squeezed onto grass. Nico was aggressive, there's no doubt about that, but he did turn in, it was just very late.
Hamilton was on for the pass and had gotten half the job done before the turn in point. However as you can't be seen to gain an advantage by leaving the track his only options were to leave the track (wasting the overtaking opportunity), brake and tuck in behind Rosberg (conceding the place and probably guaranteeing a 2nd place finish) or turning in and hoping Rosberg does the same to avoid a collision.I don't see it the same way as the Stewards because there was a significant width of track on the outside even after Nico started to turn.
SlipStream77 said:
Personally, I wonder why Hamilton turned in when Rosberg was still alongside, he had more than a car's width on the outside. It was tarmac run-off too, had he needed it, so not like being squeezed onto grass. Nico was aggressive, there's no doubt about that, but he did turn in, it was just very late.
So are you suggesting he should have gone off the track? He turned in at the edge of the track after Rosberg left him no room. Rosberg made his intent to leave no room even more clear when he hugged the white line to block him coming back on to the track.cgt2 said:
SlipStream77 said:
Personally, I wonder why Hamilton turned in when Rosberg was still alongside, he had more than a car's width on the outside. It was tarmac run-off too, had he needed it, so not like being squeezed onto grass. Nico was aggressive, there's no doubt about that, but he did turn in, it was just very late.
So are you suggesting he should have gone off the track? He turned in at the edge of the track after Rosberg left him no room. Rosberg made his intent to leave no room even more clear when he hugged the white line to block him coming back on to the track.I'm not sure that a driver already on track is obliged to do anything to allow another car back on the circuit - unless it's to avoid a very obvious incident?
SlipStream77 said:
Hamilton was a long way from the white line when the pair collided, have a look at the sequence that Dr Z posted. Had he been right up against the white line when Nico collided with him then I'd put the blame at Nico's door.
I'm not sure that a driver already on track is obliged to do anything to allow another car back on the circuit - unless it's to avoid a very obvious incident?
By that reasoning, there is nothing Nico could do in order to be at fault as long as he didn't hit Lewis right on the white line? The whole situation regarding these wheel to wheel incidents is a little grey but there are some clear precedents. Nico's tactic was totally OK, it was just the execution - literally going straight on, way past the turn in and the apex, and even then his steering inputs just made it so obvious he wasn't turning until Lewis was off track or they had collided. The way to execute this type of defence has always been to ease off the brakes to keep a nose in front (while trying to avoid the other car cutting back underneath - tricky), turn in a little late, miss the apex by a metre or two, and, as long as the car trying to pass on the outside is not substantially along side, let your car run to the outside curb on a natural line. Anything less subtle than this normally ends up with a trip to the stewards. I'm not sure that a driver already on track is obliged to do anything to allow another car back on the circuit - unless it's to avoid a very obvious incident?
I don't "like" Nico, but he drove a very good race. Doesn't mater how the pit stops unfolded to give him track position, the fact his he did all that he could do for 70 laps. It was a 10/10 drive right up until the poor execution of this defence (which started with a poor previous corner). This is why I keep banging on about it - he needs to stop trying to out "aggression" Lewis. Its not about aggression. Its about the subtleties of the last few inches of car positioning in these wheel to wheel situations. I wonder had it been anyone other than Lewis if Nico would have made a more conventional defence, and who knows if that would have won him the race - there is a good chance it would have.
I kind of agree ref letting a car re-join, no strong obligation there, especially when the off track car is behind you. But its a little more questionable when you also get held accountable for the incident that caused the other car to be off track (And you're defending position and on the racing line in a car that is badly damaged and cant maintain racing speed).
All in all, Nico was found to be the guilty party and was penalised, its not the end of the world and doesn't make him a bad driver. He needs to focus on the areas where he is very strong and put this incident (and the aggression obsession) behind him.
SlipStream77 said:
Hamilton was a long way from the white line when the pair collided, have a look at the sequence that Dr Z posted. Had he been right up against the white line when Nico collided with him then I'd put the blame at Nico's door.
I'm not sure that a driver already on track is obliged to do anything to allow another car back on the circuit - unless it's to avoid a very obvious incident?
Oh, I don't know, how about safety, fairness, or do you think they should be ignored?I'm not sure that a driver already on track is obliged to do anything to allow another car back on the circuit - unless it's to avoid a very obvious incident?
joema said:
why is there still argument about whose fault it was? Stewards found it was Nico's. Move on.
Stewards punishing nico and nico only - ham didnt even get investigated - for an inter-team incident (something they usually overlook) is a quite a clear message. That toto and merc continue to make such a public hoo-haa about blameing and threatening to punish both drivers equally is a really degrading way to treat Hamilton IMO, and that's before you consider the dodgy pit strategy that gifted Nicole 1st anyway.SlipStream77 said:
Hamilton was a long way from the white line when the pair collided, have a look at the sequence that Dr Z posted. Had he been right up against the white line when Nico collided with him then I'd put the blame at Nico's door.
I'm not sure that a driver already on track is obliged to do anything to allow another car back on the circuit - unless it's to avoid a very obvious incident?
what was he supposed to do? drive like Automan or a Light Cycle? ...it's a Formula 1 car, not an Etch A SketchI'm not sure that a driver already on track is obliged to do anything to allow another car back on the circuit - unless it's to avoid a very obvious incident?
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff