Lewis Hamilton

[liner33]

If it was the money or success that people dislike why was Jenson Button pretty much universally liked ?

I'm a fan of Lewis so don't understand why he is so poorly liked but you have to consider his race might be an issue for some.

[768]

They have different personalities. I suspect it's more to do with that than skin colour.

[PhillipM]

deadslow said:

I'd take your point if one guy had faster running shoes than all other competitors and just cruised home to multiple titles

Or was blessed with nice long legs as a miracle of genetics and all the shorter people couldn't keep up....

[StevieBee]

liner33 said:

If it was the money or success that people dislike why was Jenson Button pretty much universally liked ?

I'm a fan of Lewis so don't understand why he is so poorly liked but you have to consider his race might be an issue for some.

The British don't like the British to be 'too' successful. This is a country who's Navy turned down the opportunity to be the first with a submarine on the basis it would give us an unfair advantage.

Jenson was a nice chap who was a good at what he did and grabbed a WDC that he had to work very very hard over his career to achieve. That's enough. Good show old boy. Well done and all that.

Lewis is effortlessly brilliant. He operates with huge capacity and it's just win win win - win everything. That's too much. It's as if it's vulgar somehow.

Thank back to London 2012...

When it was announced London would bid, everyone was "waste of time and money - we'll never win it"
When we won it, everyone was "yeah, but we'll make a complete pigs ear of it"
When we put on what was without doubt the best Olympics up to then (and since), everyone was "yeah, but what a waste of money"
When it was shown to have broken even, everyone was 'yeah...but what about the legacy'
Then it's 'There's too many cyclists....we blame the Olympics...."

And on and on it goes.

As I've said before, in Britain, you can try to succeed. But whatever you do, don'y actually succeed.

[37chevy]

liner33 said:

If it was the money or success that people dislike why was Jenson Button pretty much universally liked ?

I'm a fan of Lewis so don't understand why he is so poorly liked but you have to consider his race might be an issue for some.

1) because he wasn’t ‘that’ successful....not on the same level as Schumacher, Vettel, Lewis etc

2) think a lot of people disliked him in his Benetton days....

[HighwayStar]

StevieBee said:

liner33 said:

If it was the money or success that people dislike why was Jenson Button pretty much universally liked ?

I'm a fan of Lewis so don't understand why he is so poorly liked but you have to consider his race might be an issue for some.

The British don't like the British to be 'too' successful. This is a country who's Navy turned down the opportunity to be the first with a submarine on the basis it would give us an unfair advantage.

Jenson was a nice chap who was a good at what he did and grabbed a WDC that he had to work very very hard over his career to achieve. That's enough. Good show old boy. Well done and all that.

Lewis is effortlessly brilliant. He operates with huge capacity and it's just win win win - win everything. That's too much. It's as if it's vulgar somehow.

Thank back to London 2012...

When it was announced London would bid, everyone was "waste of time and money - we'll never win it"
When we won it, everyone was "yeah, but we'll make a complete pigs ear of it"
When we put on what was without doubt the best Olympics up to then (and since), everyone was "yeah, but what a waste of money"
When it was shown to have broken even, everyone was 'yeah...but what about the legacy'
Then it's 'There's too many cyclists....we blame the Olympics...."

And on and on it goes.

As I've said before, in Britain, you can try to succeed. But whatever you do, don'y actually succeed.

This... British like to see someone try. Route for the underdog. Support them all the way, If they don't quite get there they can still be a hero.
Henry Cooper, a hero because he nearly did it. Frank Bruno, big loveable Frank (a man of colour the nation does love), a hero because he finally did it.
Nigel Benn was loved but Eubank, eccentric, flash, a character, a multiple champion... Our public just couldn't take to him yet in a interview, a very interesting, intelligent person. If Lewis lead a very quiet life, no social media, dressed in acceptable clothes... Going by what people find annoying about him he'd be accepted. Good lad, leads a quiet life, like Roger Federer .. I think he would even be forgiven for living in Monaco. Brum Mansell went to the Isle of Man, no one cared about that. Be successful, just don't flaunt the trappings of your success.

Spot on with the Olympics... I was made up when it was announced, people sitting around me in my office were all saying waste of money, we'll mess it up blah blah... Short sighted, doom laden pessimism, no can do spirit. No wonder the country is in such a state... But that's a whole other thread.

I don't think it's particularly a colour issue,. Imagine Jenson came to F1 like Lance Stroll, backed by billionaire dad John Button. Jenson would've be slaughtered from the beginning. It's just the way it is.

[E34-3.2]

HighwayStar said:

StevieBee said:

liner33 said:

If it was the money or success that people dislike why was Jenson Button pretty much universally liked ?

I'm a fan of Lewis so don't understand why he is so poorly liked but you have to consider his race might be an issue for some.

The British don't like the British to be 'too' successful. This is a country who's Navy turned down the opportunity to be the first with a submarine on the basis it would give us an unfair advantage.

Jenson was a nice chap who was a good at what he did and grabbed a WDC that he had to work very very hard over his career to achieve. That's enough. Good show old boy. Well done and all that.

Lewis is effortlessly brilliant. He operates with huge capacity and it's just win win win - win everything. That's too much. It's as if it's vulgar somehow.

Thank back to London 2012...

When it was announced London would bid, everyone was "waste of time and money - we'll never win it"
When we won it, everyone was "yeah, but we'll make a complete pigs ear of it"
When we put on what was without doubt the best Olympics up to then (and since), everyone was "yeah, but what a waste of money"
When it was shown to have broken even, everyone was 'yeah...but what about the legacy'
Then it's 'There's too many cyclists....we blame the Olympics...."

And on and on it goes.

As I've said before, in Britain, you can try to succeed. But whatever you do, don'y actually succeed.

This... British like to see someone try. Route for the underdog. Support them all the way, If they don't quite get there they can still be a hero.
Henry Cooper, a hero because he nearly did it. Frank Bruno, big loveable Frank (a man of colour the nation does love), a hero because he finally did it.
Nigel Benn was loved but Eubank, eccentric, flash, a character, a multiple champion... Our public just couldn't take to him yet in a interview, a very interesting, intelligent person. If Lewis lead a very quiet life, no social media, dressed in acceptable clothes... Going by what people find annoying about him he'd be accepted. Good lad, leads a quiet life, like Roger Federer .. I think he would even be forgiven for living in Monaco. Brum Mansell went to the Isle of Man, no one cared about that. Be successful, just don't flaunt the trappings of your success.

Spot on with the Olympics... I was made up when it was announced, people sitting around me in my office were all saying waste of money, we'll mess it up blah blah... Short sighted, doom laden pessimism, no can do spirit. No wonder the country is in such a state... But that's a whole other thread.

I don't think it's particularly a colour issue,. Imagine Jenson came to F1 like Lance Stroll, backed by billionaire dad John Button. Jenson would've be slaughtered from the beginning. It's just the way it is.

2 excellent posts on the matter! Thanks.

[thegreenhell]

StevieBee said:

liner33 said:

If it was the money or success that people dislike why was Jenson Button pretty much universally liked ?

I'm a fan of Lewis so don't understand why he is so poorly liked but you have to consider his race might be an issue for some.

The British don't like the British to be 'too' successful. This is a country who's Navy turned down the opportunity to be the first with a submarine on the basis it would give us an unfair advantage.

Jenson was a nice chap who was a good at what he did and grabbed a WDC that he had to work very very hard over his career to achieve. That's enough. Good show old boy. Well done and all that.

Lewis is effortlessly brilliant. He operates with huge capacity and it's just win win win - win everything. That's too much. It's as if it's vulgar somehow.

I don't think anyone begrudges him his success on the track or the money he makes. There have been other British sports stars who have had stellar success and not divided public opinion to anything like the extent that Hamilton seems to. In F1, both Jim Clark and Jackie Stewart were multiple champions who made it look easy, true world beaters, and both famously tax exiles, and yet you will find it hard to find anyone with anything negative to say about either in terms of their sporting success. In athletics we have Sir Mo Farrah, so successful that he's almost expected to win every time he put on his running shoes, and almost universally liked by the general public, as well as negating the race argument that some like to use against the Lewis critics.

I personally think it's mostly down to the public persona, and Lewis often comes across like a mardy teenager, which is something that is sometimes hard to engage with. Think of all the other sports personalities mentioned and all of them come across positively on camera, whether that's their genuine persona or an act for the camera. Lewis says he likes to wear his heart on his sleeve, but not everyone wants to see that all the time, bad moods and all. There have been days when he just doesn't look like he enjoys racing in F1 and earning millions, which can be hard for some people to comprehend.

[cuprabob]

I found it even hard to like him when I first saw him on Blue Peter with his RC car

However, I respect his driving talent and F1 would be a poorer place without him.

Edited by cuprabob on Thursday 16th November 20:08

[HighwayStar]

cuprabob said:

I found it even hard to like him qhen I first saw him on Blue Peter with his RC car

However, I respect his driving talent and F1 would be a poorer place without him.

Lol... jeez. A kid with a toy.
I’m just imagining the sh!t storm that would rain down if he had his hero Senna’s uncompromising, take no prisoners style when he went racing.
Thinking about it, I don’t dislike anyone on the grid, I might not rate some of them or their attitude re racing but that’s all.

[Derek Smith]

StevieBee said:

The British don't like the British to be 'too' successful. This is a country who's Navy turned down the opportunity to be the first with a submarine on the basis it would give us an unfair advantage.

Jenson was a nice chap who was a good at what he did and grabbed a WDC that he had to work very very hard over his career to achieve. That's enough. Good show old boy. Well done and all that.

Lewis is effortlessly brilliant. He operates with huge capacity and it's just win win win - win everything. That's too much. It's as if it's vulgar somehow.

Thank back to London 2012...

When it was announced London would bid, everyone was "waste of time and money - we'll never win it"
When we won it, everyone was "yeah, but we'll make a complete pigs ear of it"
When we put on what was without doubt the best Olympics up to then (and since), everyone was "yeah, but what a waste of money"
When it was shown to have broken even, everyone was 'yeah...but what about the legacy'
Then it's 'There's too many cyclists....we blame the Olympics...."

And on and on it goes.

As I've said before, in Britain, you can try to succeed. But whatever you do, don'y actually succeed.

My understanding with regards submarines was that if the British got 'em other navies would go for them and our dreadnoughts would be threatened. In other words it was protecting our investment.

In 1966 the celebrations shut down the centre of London. Even TVR Thunder's efforts paled into insignificance in comparison. '66 is still talked about despite being >50 years ago. I think we all enjoyed that one.

The Olympic success when we held in here, now that was great. Everyone does not say it was a waste of money, everyone did not say there were too many cyclists. Some people did and these stand out from the masses who really enjoyed it.

It seems odd that you should run down Britain by suggesting that everyone runs it down.

I'm in my dotage and I've got to the stage where I understand what Kipling - British although born in India - meant by triumph and disaster being impostors. It is the same with victory and defeat.

I've got an idea why Hamilton, one of the most entertaining of F1 drivers in recent decades, is disliked by many, but I don't know. He seems a lovely chap as well, turning up to a PHer's karting competition for free and having a go. But even if he wasn't, F1 would be so much poorer without him. I really hope that, with the new regs, Max can get alongside him. Now that would be fun. On a side note: I doubt Hamilton puts no effort into his racing.

[StevieBee]

Derek Smith said:

It seems odd that you should run down Britain by suggesting that everyone runs it down.

Not everyone...but enough to make it obvious. This is partly driven by the popular press which is genetically programmed to cast doubt and negativity, even where there is none.

Derek Smith said:

I doubt Hamilton puts no effort into his racing.

Nor do I. The point I was making is that he appears to operate within a capacity that does not exists with others. An analogy would be students seeking a place at Oxford or Cambridge;

Those universities look not just at grades but what else the student has been doing. If you have a student that has A* grades across the board but has also captained the Rugby Team, done voluntary aid work in bkstain, climbed Everest and so on.. It demonstrates that they have significant academic capacity compared to students with the same grades but have devoted their entire existence to achieving those grades at the expense of everything else.

Hamilton carries an air of 'nonchalance' about him (not sure if that's the right word) - someone who is utterly brilliant but without appearing to having to try too hard.

I concede thought, that this may only be an appearance and this may be the reason some view him with distain.

[paua]

The point I was making is that he appears to operate within a capacity that does not exists with others. An analogy would be students seeking a place at Oxford or Cambridge;
, done voluntary aid work in bkstain,
view him with distain.

What?

[liner33]

37chevy said:

liner33 said:

If it was the money or success that people dislike why was Jenson Button pretty much universally liked ?

I'm a fan of Lewis so don't understand why he is so poorly liked but you have to consider his race might be an issue for some.

1) because he wasn’t ‘that’ successful....not on the same level as Schumacher, Vettel, Lewis etc

2) think a lot of people disliked him in his Benetton days....

amongst other multiple world champions ? I recall Lewis was pretty well disliked from day one, unlike Vettel who became very disliked over time , I recall many times the crowd boo'ed at his winning

[37chevy]

liner33 said:

amongst other multiple world champions ? I recall Lewis was pretty well disliked from day one, unlike Vettel who became very disliked over time , I recall many times the crowd boo'ed at his winning

Yup probably goes back to his instant success...people will always have the argument that Lewis didn’t deserve to jump straight into the mclaren..he should have spent a year pedalling a crap car at the back of the grid.....despite beating Vettel and others in juniorformula, and beating alonso in his first year

[Hungrymc]

PhillipM said:

deadslow said:

I'd take your point if one guy had faster running shoes than all other competitors and just cruised home to multiple titles

Or was blessed with nice long legs as a miracle of genetics and all the shorter people couldn't keep up....

And the best coaches and training facilities with technology that flirts with the edges of legality... It all has to come together (a bit like F1)

[StevieBee]

paua said:

The point I was making is that he appears to operate within a capacity that does not exists with others. An analogy would be students seeking a place at Oxford or Cambridge;
, done voluntary aid work in bkstain,
view him with distain.

What?

Whilst other drivers pound the gym, spend time in the sim and generally devote their lives to their sport, Hamilton appears to spend time chilling, hanging out with all and sundry and generally not doing all those other things yet still manages to turn up on race weekends and more often than not out-drive everyone else.

The appearance is that he operates within a far greater cognitive capacity than his peers.

[LDN]

StevieBee said:

paua said:

The point I was making is that he appears to operate within a capacity that does not exists with others. An analogy would be students seeking a place at Oxford or Cambridge;
, done voluntary aid work in bkstain,
view him with distain.

What?

Whilst other drivers pound the gym, spend time in the sim and generally devote their lives to their sport, Hamilton appears to spend time chilling, hanging out with all and sundry and generally not doing all those other things yet still manages to turn up on race weekends and more often than not out-drive everyone else.

The appearance is that he operates within a far greater cognitive capacity than his peers.

Yes I've heard others say things similar. Other drivers (like Rosberg) have to extract every ounce of themselves to get close. Hamilton certainly doesn't allow F1 to complete dominate his life.

This era is a classic for driver talent and many don't realise that - but it will be looked back upon fondly.

[Quickmoose]

LDN said:

StevieBee said:

paua said:

The point I was making is that he appears to operate within a capacity that does not exists with others. An analogy would be students seeking a place at Oxford or Cambridge;
, done voluntary aid work in bkstain,
view him with distain.

What?

Whilst other drivers pound the gym, spend time in the sim and generally devote their lives to their sport, Hamilton appears to spend time chilling, hanging out with all and sundry and generally not doing all those other things yet still manages to turn up on race weekends and more often than not out-drive everyone else.

The appearance is that he operates within a far greater cognitive capacity than his peers.

Yes I've heard others say things similar. Other drivers (like Rosberg) have to extract every ounce of themselves to get close. Hamilton certainly doesn't allow F1 to complete dominate his life.

This era is a classic for driver talent and many don't realise that - but it will be looked back upon fondly.

The comparison with Rosberg stacks up and with Valteri too.
He doesn't out drive every other driver though
He has the wick turned up on his car.

He pretty much said as much, when he was complaining about the prospect of 3 engines next season.
Out front Seb, Bottas et al were managing their car. Lewis form the back with a new engine set to full attack mode...managed ot over take lots of other cars.
Not a shock.

That said... I personally feel the guy has extreme talent i a field of extremely talented drivers. Would be good to them all in the same car to see for sure...

[37chevy]

LDN said:

This era is a classic for driver talent and many don't realise that - but it will be looked back upon fondly.

This. Which is why you can’t really compare different eras. the gulf between the top drivers is so small these days when compared to the 80s and 90s....it tends to be that last tenth of 2 which the top drivers can extract that sets them apart. Most drivers could probably win races in the merc or Ferrari....question is could they regularly beat the likes of Vettel and Hamilton as their team mates in a straight fight....doubtful