Lewis Hamilton

[chunder27]

I really havent been paying attention.

let's be honest, if you watched through the 80's and 90's as I did, it's tough to think of many modern F1 races that match some of that era.

I feel for the modern generation, I really do, so poorly entertained are you lol

[MarkwG]

chunder27 said:

I really havent been paying attention.

let's be honest, if you watched through the 80's and 90's as I did, it's tough to think of many modern F1 races that match some of that era.

I feel for the modern generation, I really do, so poorly entertained are you lol

I did...it wasn't...nostalgia's not what it used to be, either...

[Blue62]

chunder27 said:

I really havent been paying attention.

let's be honest, if you watched through the 80's and 90's as I did, it's tough to think of many modern F1 races that match some of that era.

I feel for the modern generation, I really do, so poorly entertained are you lol

I would add the 1970's to that, but maybe it's an age thing. What I can't agree with is your comment about Hamilton, by your own admission you don't watch much F1 these days, so why do you think you're qualified to comment on his ability?

He is the best of his generation and Singapore showcased why. He's at the back of the charisma grid, but anyone who denies his driving skill doesn't know their motor racing.

[HardtopManual]

chunder27 said:

I do honestly struggle to think of amazing Hamilton drives other than the Turkey GP2 race.

But then, I get my racing kicks elsewhere these days thank goodness. I am not saying he is not great.

Just that to me, there are a few others that have done things that made me go wow.

Neither Vettel or Hamilton have done that quite honestly

But that is not perhaps ALL their fault.

Name an amazing F1 drive from another driver during Hamilton's career, so we can see whether your problem is with Hamilton or F1.

[paulguitar]

Blue62 said:

He's at the back of the charisma grid

I don't agree. I find him fascinating to listen to away from the track when interviewed, quite inspiring.

Kimi gets a load of credit for on the whole being rude and boring. It's very confusing.

[sparta6]

E34-3.2 said:

Yes, it was a tenth slower than Hamilton. Funny how people change the stories...
The Redbull has a better chassis than the Mercedes on twisty circuits as well. Even more impressive from Hamilton to destroy 2 teams with better suited cars for that track.

Yep. Never mind about the RB engine being 50bhp down on power compared to the Merc and Ferrari, and that Max's engine momentarily cut out during Q3

[paulguitar]

sparta6 said:

E34-3.2 said:

Yes, it was a tenth slower than Hamilton. Funny how people change the stories...
The Redbull has a better chassis than the Mercedes on twisty circuits as well. Even more impressive from Hamilton to destroy 2 teams with better suited cars for that track.

Yep. Never mind about the RB engine being 50bhp down on power compared to the Merc and Ferrari, and that Max's engine momentarily cut out during Q3

That was certainly a fantastic lap from Max, and he was unusually mature in the race too. He needs to keep this up, several consecutive performances like that and his rather crazy season is perhaps salvageable.

[Hungrymc]

I think the comparison between Max and Lewis’s Q3 laps is a good topic. it’s a circuit where we would have expected to see a healthy RB be quite competitive. Maybe had they been able to give Max a reliable car he’d have put it on pole.... He nearly did, he beat one Merc and both Ferrari’s.... Was only an utterly wonderful lap by Lewis that beat him.

I do wonder how long Max will stay with RB, think he’s waiting for Lewis to retire.

I don’t think it has to be an either or? Two wonderful laps, punctuated by fantastic pole by Lewis.

[angrymoby]

Hungrymc said:

I think the comparison between Max and Lewis’s Q3 laps is a good topic. it’s a circuit where we would have expected to see a healthy RB be quite competitive. Maybe had they been able to give Max a reliable car he’d have put it on pole.... He nearly did, he beat one Merc and both Ferrari’s.... Was only an utterly wonderful lap by Lewis that beat him.

I do wonder how long Max will stay with RB, think he’s waiting for Lewis to retire.

I don’t think it has to be an either or? Two wonderful laps, punctuated by fantastic pole by Lewis.

This.

[Derek Smith]

I just don't get this nostalgia bit about the history of F1. I've followed the sport since the British in 1966. There were some great races in the various decades, some very memorable. However, there have been seasons where there's not been much happening. We've recently gone through season after season of one team dominating and having a favoured driver. Dire.

This season we've had some thrilling racing and it's been varied as well. All the way down the field we've had pressure and overtakes galore. It is risky suggesting that this or that season was the best ever, but there have been perhaps four races where little happened, and even in them there's been a fair bit of excitement. Singapore and Monaco have always been processions in the main and it has been little different this year. Oz was less than involving, but for the rest there's been excitement, sometimes right up until the flag.

The previous seasons have, on the whole, been exciting. Why on earth would anyone want to go back to the 70s and 80s?

The cars looked cool, and one could often see which one it was from a distance, not something we can accuse the current cars of, but the racing was often predictable. This last race the first six finished as they started. So not the most exciting. But boy; there were some worse races back when.

There's always room for improvement and the new regs next season may help, and those of 2021 look interesting. But they've got a lot to do to beat the present season.

[Polite M135 driver]

Europa1 said:

Deesee said:

chunder27 said:

I do honestly struggle to think of amazing Hamilton drives other than the Turkey GP2 race.

But then, I get my racing kicks elsewhere these days thank goodness. I am not saying he is not great.

Just that to me, there are a few others that have done things that made me go wow.

Neither Vettel or Hamilton have done that quite honestly

But that is not perhaps ALL their fault.

Wow,

Let’s start with Hamilton’s first win in his 6th F1 start, Canada 2007.

Pole, and never lost position, including 4 safety car restarts, let’s also KIV it was his 6th podium in 6 races.

Winning the British Grand Prix one year by over a minute wasn't too shabby.

At some points during that British GP he was more than 6 seconds a lap quicker than any other driver.

How about Brazil 2016 (or 17??). The wet one where Hamilton and Verstappen made everyone else look like silly?

Or how about hockenheim this year? 14th to 1st?

Or how about Suzuka in the wet in 2016? (Overshadowed by the sad death of bianchi).

Many, many more.

[RB Will]

angrymoby said:

RB Will said:

What is the difference, the outcome is still wrecking their race and putting them in danger when they don't deserve it. Doesn't matter if its on a corner or a straight or if the track is lined with concrete walls, run off, gravel, grass or fluffy pillows its still a dick move.

well, it kind of does ...one will wreck their (potentially) life/ car/ race, the other just their track position

& it's also dependent on the guy on the inside not being on the limit of adhesion ...i'd argue Perez was not (& Szafnauer agrees & he'd kinda know)

RB Will said:

I'm not saying safe run off should be taken away but that pushing someone off on a corner should be punished the same way as on a straight.

how would you police that, bearing in mind 'racing line' & 'limit of adhesion' above? I'd also argue it would be pretty boring as defending position would be greatly reduced

don't forget those with a bit of race craft can also use it to their advantage ...see those drivers who are masters of the switch back

only time i'd like to see something enforced, is when a driver has no intention of letting the guy behind past, to the point they completely ignore the racing line & apex ...& force the following competitor off track (usually along with themselves) NOW that is a dick move

Edited by angrymoby on Monday 17th September 18:34

I'd say if you can utilise a switchback that is a different situation, deliberately going deep or being forced deep into a corner where you can slow and cut back up the inside is completely different to being next to someone on the corner exit and them just driving you off the track.

as for policing it, I don't see the problem, if you have someone next to you and your actions end up forcing them out of track limits whether intentional or by running out of grip / talent while defending then that is not on and is a failure of the defending driver.

I'd disagree that it would make the racing boring. I have had some great battle in karts where we have been side by side for about half a lap trying to get the advantage on the inside or outside. It really shows the drivers skill in having to adapt to the situation and new lines and grip levels.

These 2 are having a good go taking about 2/3 of a lap to complete the overtake.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDHY8aK3GZE

The situation we have at the moment is crap as you just cant overtake. Normally the driver in front will defend the inside so the only option is to go around the outside but if you do that then the defending car will just drive you off on corner exit, this is what leads to mega late lunge overtakes from the like of Ric and Ves.

[Wh00sher]

Leroy902 said:

I can't tell if there's a host of trolling going on

I thought a lot of posts in here were exactly that.

[eccles]

Polite M135 driver said:

Or how about hockenheim this year? 14th to 1st?

Would that be the race where everyone just pulled over out of the way because they were in 'their own' race, right up to the top 6?
Yeah, storming race!

[Hungrymc]

RB Will said:

The situation we have at the moment is crap as you just cant overtake. Normally the driver in front will defend the inside so the only option is to go around the outside but if you do that then the defending car will just drive you off on corner exit, this is what leads to mega late lunge overtakes from the like of Ric and Ves.

I disagree. They may drive you to the outside if you don’t get significantly alongside by the apex. If you’re not fully alongside then you either need to have made them to straighten up early or back out of it. We see plenty of passes round the outside but it’s very subtle as to when the passing car has won the battle and can hang in there vs when it’s in a bad place and needs to get out.

With every type of overtake there is the chance for the driver being passed to defend too aggressively.... example Seb on Lewis at Monza (maybe it was just a bit of unexpected understeer having been forced onto a tighter line?)

Overtaking is hard and it’s fine margins and subtle differences. I wouldn’t want it any other way.

[StevieBee]

Derek Smith said:

I just don't get this nostalgia bit about the history of F1. I've followed the sport since the British in 1966. There were some great races in the various decades, some very memorable. However, there have been seasons where there's not been much happening. We've recently gone through season after season of one team dominating and having a favoured driver. Dire.

Couldn't agree more.

I think there's many younger fans who were not around during those periods so their framework of reference is narrower and many older fans who wear rose tinted spectacles.

There were clearly some epic races and much that was good but this - as you say - masks the reality that seldom would a race offer the level of excitement you tend to get more frequently at the moment.

[angrymoby]

RB Will said:

I'd say if you can utilise a switchback that is a different situation, deliberately going deep or being forced deep into a corner where you can slow and cut back up the inside is completely different to being next to someone on the corner exit and them just driving you off the track.

that's the point, if you know a driver is going to get their elbows out on the exit (& F1 drivers know each other well enough) ...line them up & switchback them

RB Will said:

as for policing it, I don't see the problem, if you have someone next to you and your actions end up forcing them out of track limits whether intentional or by running out of grip / talent while defending then that is not on and is a failure of the defending driver.

honestly, i think you're greatly underestimating that these F1 drivers are on the ragged edge, not pootling about concerned that if they slide wide they might force someone else wide too- a driver on the limit wont even be focused on the corner exit, they'll be too busy trying hit the apex

RB Will said:

I'd disagree that it would make the racing boring. I have had some great battle in karts where we have been side by side for about half a lap trying to get the advantage on the inside or outside. It really shows the drivers skill in having to adapt to the situation and new lines and grip levels.

Karts are pretty much spec series though aren't they? ...& from my limited experience of tkm/ rotax/ club 100 it certainly isn't the case, you have to have a pretty big overlap on the outside to be given room, most of the time i was eating grass/ dirt if i tried that

RB Will said:

These 2 are having a good go taking about 2/3 of a lap to complete the overtake.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDHY8aK3GZE

Best Motoring isn't competitive racing though is it? ...& more akin to Top Gear

Edited by angrymoby on Tuesday 18th September 12:03

[sparta6]

Hungrymc said:

I think the comparison between Max and Lewis’s Q3 laps is a good topic. it’s a circuit where we would have expected to see a healthy RB be quite competitive. Maybe had they been able to give Max a reliable car he’d have put it on pole.... He nearly did, he beat one Merc and both Ferrari’s.... Was only an utterly wonderful lap by Lewis that beat him.

I do wonder how long Max will stay with RB, think he’s waiting for Lewis to retire.

I don’t think it has to be an either or? Two wonderful laps, punctuated by fantastic pole by Lewis.

Agreed.
It would be fascinating to see Max and Lewis in the same team, but sadly I doubt that will happen.
Lewis will retire just as Max is getting into the groove of fast consistency

[anonymous-user]

Hungrymc said:

I think the comparison between Max and Lewis’s Q3 laps is a good topic. it’s a circuit where we would have expected to see a healthy RB be quite competitive. Maybe had they been able to give Max a reliable car he’d have put it on pole.... He nearly did, he beat one Merc and both Ferrari’s.... Was only an utterly wonderful lap by Lewis that beat him.

I do wonder how long Max will stay with RB, think he’s waiting for Lewis to retire.

I don’t think it has to be an either or? Two wonderful laps, punctuated by fantastic pole by Lewis.

Spot on.

PS Can I nominate Fuji 2007.... Alonso put it in the wall trying to keep up!

[Blue62]

StevieBee said:

Couldn't agree more.

I think there's many younger fans who were not around during those periods so their framework of reference is narrower and many older fans who wear rose tinted spectacles.

There were clearly some epic races and much that was good but this - as you say - masks the reality that seldom would a race offer the level of excitement you tend to get more frequently at the moment.

I think it has more to do with the fact that most things were better in your youth (football, women, nights out) it's a natural phenomena and is often referred to as rose tinted. On a more sensible footing, I do think that there were more characters in F1 and that maybe filtered into the racing, but the period when Senna, Prost and Mansell were fighting it out as Schumacher began to emerge was a golden one for me, rose tinted or not.