Lewis Hamilton

[Lannister902]

Polite M135 driver said:

One thing for all to google: unconscious bias.

It’s we know that societies hold ‘others’ to higher standards than the majority.

Eg if kimi raikonnen told a journalist to fk off everyone would chuckle and feel a warm glow (what a character), whereas I suspect if Lewis Hamilton did the same there would be a lot of condemnation.

Kimi seems to be the Trump of f1. He can say wtf he wants, people just laugh/ignore and carry on their ways.
No other driver could get away with the antics Kimi has in his career, and they'd be seriously criticised for their behaviour if they tried

[768]

Polite M135 driver said:

One thing for all to google: unconscious bias.

The sooner that term falls from public consciousness the better as far as I'm concerned.

Polite M135 driver said:

Eg if kimi raikonnen told a journalist to fk off everyone would chuckle and feel a warm glow (what a character), whereas I suspect if Lewis Hamilton did the same there would be a lot of condemnation.

Yes, but that's no indicator of anything unconscious.

[Pebbles167]

Seasons over, and he's had a crash! On a motorbike.

Seems like he's ok mind.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.crash.net/f1/ne...

[37chevy]

Lannister902 said:

Kimi seems to be the Trump of f1. He can say wtf he wants, people just laugh/ignore and carry on their ways.
No other driver could get away with the antics Kimi has in his career, and they'd be seriously criticised for their behaviour if they tried

Oh I don’t know. Max seems to be getting a bit of a free pass at the moment too by at least half the fans

[Deesee]

Stat of the day..

The Deutschlandlied has now been played the same time (52) for Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel....

[TobyTR]

CanoeSniffer said:

I really feel the need to call out this bullst. I've attended various GPs across Europe, with 'real Motorsport fans', and had a great number of conversations with a diverse- and generally lovely- range of people who support anyone from Marcus Ericsson to Lance Stroll (unfortunately usually in perfect English to make me feel particularly embarrassed about my total lack of linguistic skills, usually ends with me red-faced and mumbling a clumsy 'Merci' or 'Danke').

The general consensus has always been that Lewis Hamilton is a truly remarkably talented racing driver, almost without question its agreed that he's the best of the current crop, and it may be some years until another driver comes along with his sheer talent and cool calm winning mentality when in the car. At no point have any of these dirty foreign racists shown anything but tremendous respect for Lewis Hamilton, the racing driver.

Almost unanimous agreement is also reached that he is simply an antagonistic personality, so wrapped up in a PR actions tornado that he appears completely dishonest and self-indulgent. This is not intended as an attack, nor is it how I desire to feel about the best British racing driver I may ever see in my lifetime. It's an honest unadulterated observation, I cannot choose to feel differently.

But what do I know, I'm just a mindless racist.

+1 you're correct with everything you've said

I worked alongside a motorsport scribe who was employed on one of the prominent UK F1 titles. Back in 2014 he interviewed Hamilton and asked him "Have you had any PR training?"

Lewis' reply: "I've never had any PR training.".......

Great F1 driver all the same. One of the best on the grid.

Edited by TobyTR on Sunday 2nd December 22:01

[BlackPrince]

768 said:

Yes, but that's no indicator of anything unconscious.

why is it the sooner that term falls from use the better?

[BlackPrince]

CanoeSniffer said:

I really feel the need to call out this bullst. I've attended various GPs across Europe, with 'real Motorsport fans', and had a great number of conversations with a diverse- and generally lovely- range of people who support anyone from Marcus Ericsson to Lance Stroll (unfortunately usually in perfect English to make me feel particularly embarrassed about my total lack of linguistic skills, usually ends with me red-faced and mumbling a clumsy 'Merci' or 'Danke').

The general consensus has always been that Lewis Hamilton is a truly remarkably talented racing driver, almost without question its agreed that he's the best of the current crop, and it may be some years until another driver comes along with his sheer talent and cool calm winning mentality when in the car. At no point have any of these dirty foreign racists shown anything but tremendous respect for Lewis Hamilton, the racing driver.

Almost unanimous agreement is also reached that he is simply an antagonistic personality, so wrapped up in a PR actions tornado that he appears completely dishonest and self-indulgent. This is not intended as an attack, nor is it how I desire to feel about the best British racing driver I may ever see in my lifetime. It's an honest unadulterated observation, I cannot choose to feel differently.

But what do I know, I'm just a mindless racist.

Which F1 stars are NOT 'antagonistic' and 'self-indulgent?' I'll give you my list of those who would appear to possess those aforementioned qualities: Vettel, Alonso, Schumacher when he was racing, Senna, Mansel, Raikonnen, Rosberg, and from the world of MotoGP Valentino Rossi, Marquez, Lorenzo, Stoner, and the list goes on and on and on. Personally, I don't really care much about their personal character traits, and only really care how they perform on track.

Secondly, and this is not directly addressing you Canoe, but is tangential to your point on race: I think people are reacting (rightly or wrongly) to Hamilton becoming more (pop culture) "black" in the last few years. Do I hate neck tattoos and am I annoyed by black celebrities who have no interest in F1 but just want to latch onto Lewis, appearing at races and such? Yes. But the same thing probably happens to all famous sportsmen and women - look at early videos of Conor McGregor and he's unrecognizable in his lack of tattoos, clean shaven face and shy demeanour. And I know he has hangers-on that probably have little interest in MMA. It makes sense in a way that the same transformation has happened to Hamilton.

I think his neck tats, and 90s rapper jewelry are silly, but as far as the only thing that should matter as far as Hamilton's out-of-car behaviour is concerned - his character, he is beyond reproach. He is exceptionally polite, and though yes, he has had his share of whining, its never completely out of order or out of bounds in the way other racers have been in the past

[768]

BlackPrince said:

768 said:

Yes, but that's no indicator of anything unconscious.

why is it the sooner that term falls from use the better?

I'm scarred by seeing public sector departments use it as a lazy trope to demand equality of outcome. i.e. even if you mostly need to hire maths graduates in the North of Scotland if you don't have enough black women it's assumed by some to be because of unconscious bias and to offer any alternative explanation is sexist/racist/etc. They literally think the argument is above question because it's unconscious, even if your hiring process was run by a national lottery machine I'm sure they'd make the same argument.

One year I saw a photo of a graduate intake posted on an internal forum with a message saying it was "disgusting" and they couldn't look at it - it was maybe 20 people, surprisingly a few different skin tones but maybe only five you'd pick out as female. Five is way above the proportion applying. Young men who were objectively better candidates were likely not being offered places as it was. And at some point they'd find that photo of themselves, fresh faced at the start of their careers, probably while still daunted by the experience, labelled disgusting.

Anyway, it's not NP&E..!

[HighwayStar]

BlackPrince said:

CanoeSniffer said:

I really feel the need to call out this bullst. I've attended various GPs across Europe, with 'real Motorsport fans', and had a great number of conversations with a diverse- and generally lovely- range of people who support anyone from Marcus Ericsson to Lance Stroll (unfortunately usually in perfect English to make me feel particularly embarrassed about my total lack of linguistic skills, usually ends with me red-faced and mumbling a clumsy 'Merci' or 'Danke').

The general consensus has always been that Lewis Hamilton is a truly remarkably talented racing driver, almost without question its agreed that he's the best of the current crop, and it may be some years until another driver comes along with his sheer talent and cool calm winning mentality when in the car. At no point have any of these dirty foreign racists shown anything but tremendous respect for Lewis Hamilton, the racing driver.

Almost unanimous agreement is also reached that he is simply an antagonistic personality, so wrapped up in a PR actions tornado that he appears completely dishonest and self-indulgent. This is not intended as an attack, nor is it how I desire to feel about the best British racing driver I may ever see in my lifetime. It's an honest unadulterated observation, I cannot choose to feel differently.

But what do I know, I'm just a mindless racist.

Which F1 stars are NOT 'antagonistic' and 'self-indulgent?' I'll give you my list of those who would appear to possess those aforementioned qualities: Vettel, Alonso, Schumacher when he was racing, Senna, Mansel, Raikonnen, Rosberg, and from the world of MotoGP Valentino Rossi, Marquez, Lorenzo, Stoner, and the list goes on and on and on. Personally, I don't really care much about their personal character traits, and only really care how they perform on track.

Secondly, and this is not directly addressing you Canoe, but is tangential to your point on race: I think people are reacting (rightly or wrongly) to Hamilton becoming more (pop culture) "black" in the last few years. Do I hate neck tattoos and am I annoyed by black celebrities who have no interest in F1 but just want to latch onto Lewis, appearing at races and such? Yes. But the same thing probably happens to all famous sportsmen and women - look at early videos of Conor McGregor and he's unrecognizable in his lack of tattoos, clean shaven face and shy demeanour. And I know he has hangers-on that probably have little interest in MMA. It makes sense in a way that the same transformation has happened to Hamilton.

I think his neck tats, and 90s rapper jewelry are silly, but as far as the only thing that should matter as far as Hamilton's out-of-car behaviour is concerned - his character, he is beyond reproach. He is exceptionally polite, and though yes, he has had his share of whining, its never completely out of order or out of bounds in the way other racers have been in the past

There will be various reasons why people become interested in F1, be it one of their countryman coming to prominence and doing really well or by being introduced to it by someone else. There will be plenty of Dutch fans new to F1 who had no interest in the sport until Max arrived. I have a friend who wouldn't be interested if Lewis wasn't there and I have to explain almost everything to him so your point is valid. There will be people (plebs and celebs) who have been attracted to F1 because of Lewis who then become interested in F1, what it is and how it works.

Michael Douglas and Hugh Grant are big fans... I remember Liz Hurley in amongst the grid at Monaco, Brundle manages to get a few words with her. She had no clue. He asked her who she thought would win.. all she could say was something about the nice cars and the pretty boys. I don't care how good she looks, she was a waste of time and effort. Still, some of Lewis's friends get want to see what he does/get invited to a race, why be annoyed by his black celebrity friends?

[anonymous-user]

HorneyMX5 said:

I get the feeling Lewis suffers from some mental health issues. He displays a lot of the classic signs of suffering from anxiety. He's always fidgeting, he can often seem aloof and socially awkward and I don't think he has any real close relationships outside of his immediate family. He's certainly not the same charismatic character he was when he was much younger, but we do get flashes of it. The video with Will Smith from this weekend was like fun loving Lewis of old.

Back the racing. He dominated this season, completely. Even when on the odd occasion it was all going wrong he shrugged it off like a man who knew nothing could stop him. Silverstone was the only real blip when his disappointment clearly got the better of him.

For me there's no doubt he's one of the all time greats now. He's racked up some impressive records while remaining one of the most fair and respected drivers while behind the wheel. A very impressive feat in any competitive environment.

Hamilton is in the best mindset of his career. The car has been the best in the turbo era by a country mile which obviously helps.

Having that confidence before each race weekend will just make you stronger.

2018 you could say was his best year. Doubt 2019 will be any different.

If anyone has concerns about drivers with depressive thoughts I would say Vettel or Bottas could be high on that list.

I would say Hamilton has broken three drivers now including one that left the sport.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 3rd December 10:50

[Norfolkit]

Exige77 said:

CanoeSniffer said:

London424 said:

LDN said:

johnxjsc1985 said:

I really don't know what Hamilton does in his time out of the Car but it does seem to upset a lot of people.
He is a British Driver to add to our list of great F1 champions and he will hopefully inspire more champions of the future.
I am not sure any other driver could have done more than he has done since the Summer break he was simply in a different class to the rest of the grid it was just a pleasure to watch him drive .

It is a privilege to see him drive. Attending Silverstone a few years on the trot; the support he has with real motorsport fans is just unbelievable... I don’t know why he upsets others, as you say. But at the track; he’s loved and respected in great measure.

A friend told me that, even though he’s been massively popular outside of the UK, especially in the America’s and Asia, there was always a strong anti Hamilton contingent in parts of Europe; but even they, apparently, are coming around. Italian press for example; have been quite vocal about Vettel’s failings and have said that Hamilton in the Ferrari, would have gotten them the championship.

That’s because there’s an awful lot of pretty racist European countries still.

I really feel the need to call out this bullst. I've attended various GPs across Europe, with 'real Motorsport fans', and had a great number of conversations with a diverse- and generally lovely- range of people who support anyone from Marcus Ericsson to Lance Stroll (unfortunately usually in perfect English to make me feel particularly embarrassed about my total lack of linguistic skills, usually ends with me red-faced and mumbling a clumsy 'Merci' or 'Danke').

The general consensus has always been that Lewis Hamilton is a truly remarkably talented racing driver, almost without question its agreed that he's the best of the current crop, and it may be some years until another driver comes along with his sheer talent and cool calm winning mentality when in the car. At no point have any of these dirty foreign racists shown anything but tremendous respect for Lewis Hamilton, the racing driver.

Almost unanimous agreement is also reached that he is simply an antagonistic personality, so wrapped up in a PR actions tornado that he appears completely dishonest and self-indulgent. This is not intended as an attack, nor is it how I desire to feel about the best British racing driver I may ever see in my lifetime. It's an honest unadulterated observation, I cannot choose to feel differently.

But what do I know, I'm just a mindless racist.

I don’t recognise your 3rd paragraph at all.

I don’t think it’s “almost unanimous”

I'll also call out that 3rd paragraph as claptrap.
Myself and my youngest son go to one Europeam GP each year (Austria in 2019), I've never found that attitude about Hamilton at all. Sure everyone has their favourite driver or team but I've yet to come across anyone who dislikes a particular driver. Go to Spa and you will be in a sea of orange but you'll also find a great deal of respect for all the other drivers. Monza, swap red for orange but the atmosphere is the same.
The only "poor" attitude I've expreienced was at Paul Ricard this year when by mid race half of the crowd had gone home, no idea why unless it was Gasly and Ocon goning out early (but Grosjean lasted all race). For me, of all the races I've been to I'd put Paul Ricard at the bottom in whatever category you choose, dreadful organisation and little atmosphere (great scenery though).

Edited by Norfolkit on Monday 3rd December 11:13

[sparta6]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

I would say Hamilton has broken three drivers now including one that left the sport.

Edited by ELUSIVEJIM on Monday 3rd December 10:50

Interesting. I see it another way.

NR and LH slugged it out properly, and both got under each other's skin.

Once NR had achieved his objective of winning a WDC, he moved onto looking after his family and staying in one piece.

Agree that LH has been performing at his best in 2018. A calm and passive Bottas has possibly helped.

[HighwayStar]

sparta6 said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

I would say Hamilton has broken three drivers now including one that left the sport.

Edited by ELUSIVEJIM on Monday 3rd December 10:50

Interesting. I see it another way.

NR and LH slugged it out properly, and both got under each other's skin.

Once NR had achieved his objective of winning a WDC, he moved onto looking after his family and staying in one piece.

Agree that LH has been performing at his best in 2018. A calm and passive Bottas has possibly helped.

I would say Lewis was more frustrated by his reliability issues and not being able to fight NR at every race. His own issues getting the car off the line would’ve been a big factor too.
Credit where it’s due though. NR fought every inch of the way for his WDC, the pressure got to him too as you point out but he earned it.
Personally, I think too much is made of Lewis doesn’t want a strong team mate, a clear number two. He’s never asked for one, openly says he doesn’t care whose in the other seat and hopes other teams up there game for closer more exciting racing.
Bottas effectively made himself wingman by falling to far behind points wise early in the championship. Rosberg upped his game. Bottas has to do the same.

[Teddy Lop]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

I would say Hamilton has broken three drivers now including one that left the sport.

could probably add heiki to that list, he was very much considered an up-and-coming talent back in the day - so much so renault dropped him for someone who'd be a better shall we say "team player" with fred.

I only said to the mrs last night, Button is really the only driver to survive Hamilton, which means you have to wonder what Button could have achieved with different opportunities.

[paulguitar]

Teddy Lop said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

I would say Hamilton has broken three drivers now including one that left the sport.

could probably add heiki to that list, he was very much considered an up-and-coming talent back in the day - so much so renault dropped him for someone who'd be a better shall we say "team player" with fred.

I only said to the mrs last night, Button is really the only driver to survive Hamilton, which means you have to wonder what Button could have achieved with different opportunities.

Yes, that’s true, but I do think Jenson is rather flattered by the stats looking better for him than things really were. To be fair, he did on several occasions beat Lewis fair and square, and that is very impressive. Having said that though, there were so many races at McLaren where Lewis was leading or up front and Jens was literally nowhere. He was a driver who needed everything to be perfect with the car. When that was the case, he was sometimes unbeatable. The hard truth though is that great champions are such because they can shine when everything is not perfect with the car.

That’s what makes drivers like Lewis and Fernando a class apart from superb, but not all-time great drivers, like Jenson and Nico.

IMO.

[markcoznottz]

paulguitar said:

Teddy Lop said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

I would say Hamilton has broken three drivers now including one that left the sport.

could probably add heiki to that list, he was very much considered an up-and-coming talent back in the day - so much so renault dropped him for someone who'd be a better shall we say "team player" with fred.

I only said to the mrs last night, Button is really the only driver to survive Hamilton, which means you have to wonder what Button could have achieved with different opportunities.

Yes, that’s true, but I do think Jenson is rather flattered by the stats looking better for him than things really were. To be fair, he did on several occasions beat Lewis fair and square, and that is very impressive. Having said that though, there were so many races at McLaren where Lewis was leading or up front and Jens was literally nowhere. He was a driver who needed everything to be perfect with the car. When that was the case, he was sometimes unbeatable. The hard truth though is that great champions are such because they can shine when everything is not perfect with the car.

That’s what makes drivers like Lewis and Fernando a class apart from superb, but not all-time great drivers, like Jenson and Nico.

IMO.

Jenson solid driver. Was thought to be faster in a kart than Lewis. At no point, all things being equal was Jenson faster than Lewis at McLaren, his quali at times was poor as well. Jenson a more balanced individual out of the car.

[LDN]

markcoznottz said:

paulguitar said:

Teddy Lop said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

I would say Hamilton has broken three drivers now including one that left the sport.

could probably add heiki to that list, he was very much considered an up-and-coming talent back in the day - so much so renault dropped him for someone who'd be a better shall we say "team player" with fred.

I only said to the mrs last night, Button is really the only driver to survive Hamilton, which means you have to wonder what Button could have achieved with different opportunities.

Yes, that’s true, but I do think Jenson is rather flattered by the stats looking better for him than things really were. To be fair, he did on several occasions beat Lewis fair and square, and that is very impressive. Having said that though, there were so many races at McLaren where Lewis was leading or up front and Jens was literally nowhere. He was a driver who needed everything to be perfect with the car. When that was the case, he was sometimes unbeatable. The hard truth though is that great champions are such because they can shine when everything is not perfect with the car.

That’s what makes drivers like Lewis and Fernando a class apart from superb, but not all-time great drivers, like Jenson and Nico.

IMO.

Jenson solid driver. Was thought to be faster in a kart than Lewis. At no point, all things being equal was Jenson faster than Lewis at McLaren, his quali at times was poor as well. Jenson a more balanced individual out of the car.

Not sure about the Karting; I remember a short piece on BBC (I think) with Lewis and Jenson having a race; Lewis won that. Can’t remember if they were proper 2 - strokes or corporate karts though, so not the most accurate account I know.

[TobyTR]

Button was better than what some people give him credit for, one of the most consistently quick drivers and a terrific racing brain. I'd rate him slightly better than Nico.

M.Schumacher commented in 2004 that Button's race-lap grouping was the most consistent of any driver on the grid. Definitely one of his best seasons that year in the BAR-Honda.

Jenson's thoughts: "There were days when Lewis would just do something amazing, but there were other days when you got everything right and you'd wonder where he'd gone... With Fernando, there were never any days like that. If he was behind you, he'd always be pushing you like crazy. If he was ahead of you, then you'd be hanging on."

This quote backs up him needing the car to be more perfect to really excel

[Sa Calobra]

sparta6 said:

Interesting. I see it another way.

NR and LH slugged it out properly, and both got under each other's skin.

Once NR had achieved his objective of winning a WDC, he moved onto looking after his family and staying in one piece.

Agree that LH has been performing at his best in 2018. A calm and passive Bottas has possibly helped.

Rosberg spoke about it. He wasn't comfortable and was glad he was out.