Lewis Hamilton

[paulguitar]

Chris Stott said:

Personally, I think Lewis is already the best in the modern era (last 50 years).

He combines the incredible single lap pace of someone like Senna, the mistake free race craft of someone like Prost, but none of the ‘shenanigans’ that Schumacher sometimes resorted to.

Doesn’t matter for me if he gets to 7 or 8 championships (though most likely he will in due course), he’s the most complete driver of my lifetime.

Yes, mine too, I look at him the same way, a sort of mix of the best of Senna and Prost, but without the dangerous driving Senna displayed on a number of occasions

Schumacher was, of course, an awesome driver, but revealed an appalling weakness of character too often when it really came down to pivotal on-track moments.

[kiseca]

Winning in Monaco spending half the race nursing the wrong tyres... setting fastest lap on slowest tyres in their slowest condition at Silverstone...

I've always liked him, always thought he was good because his first half of 2007 he was both quick and consistent, and always liked him because he's quirky but he's not a jerk. The fact that he didn't dominate Button or Nico made me wonder a little whether he was one of the greatest ever or just one of the best of his generation, but he seems against all odds to have got faster since then - just an impression - I've got no numbers to back that up - as well as cleverer in the car. He's part of the old guard now but doesn't look or act it at all.

And his record is undeniable. He's one of the best ever, I have no doubt now. And I still like seeing him do well, which is a refreshing change. I didn't like Senna, and I didn't like Schumacher, and I'm not a fan of Max either. It's been nice to watch someone winning who I can actually support.

[sparta6]

Chris Stott said:

the mistake free race craft of someone like Prost,

Really ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygi9YpfbFwM

The fortnightly crashing into Massa was becoming a telenova

[Deesee]

This is a little old, but tells the tale of hitting the limit of adhesion. In a early but career defining drive.

Something he has managed his whole career (but cost him a WDC in China in 2007)..

A good read..

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/willthef1journo.wor...

[vdn]

I think that people will look back, once Hamilton retires, as arguably the best ever. I think it’s already looking that way. I remember in 2007, having seen snippets of his ascendancy through lower formulae, thinking “this kid is going to shake things up big time”. And from the second he stepped foot on the grid / first race, it was clear to see there was at least something a little special happening... fast forward 12 years; he’s beaten them all; established WDC, Alonso, in his very first year... something many argue Alonso never quite recovered from. He’s had his shaky era but still managed to win a race every season he’s raced. He’s broken nearly every record there is and even set some that hadn’t existed before like, only driver to win a race every season he’s participated. He’s consistently the team managers choice; even the year Rosberg got his WDC. Hindsight will be kind to Hamilton, but I’m not sure he needs it. He’s still as hungry and competitive and if anything, there’s a feeling that he’s still improving.

In any case; what’s great is we have the likes of Max, CLC and Lando to pick up the baton, as the next gen... with Alonso gone, Vettel on the decline and Hamilton with maybe another few years left in the game.

[vdn]

Deesee said:

This is a little old, but tells the tale of hitting the limit of adhesion. In a early but career defining drive.

Something he has managed his whole career (but cost him a WDC in China in 2007)..

A good read..

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/willthef1journo.wor...

It is a good read; I’ve posted that article in the past; some definite insight into his career.

[Deesee]

vdn said:

Deesee said:

This is a little old, but tells the tale of hitting the limit of adhesion. In a early but career defining drive.

Something he has managed his whole career (but cost him a WDC in China in 2007)..

A good read..

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/willthef1journo.wor...

It is a good read; I’ve posted that article in the past; some definite insight into his career.

I’d like to see mr Buxton recap the following 5/6 years..

[eccles]

vdn said:

I think that people will look back, once Hamilton retires, as arguably the best ever. I think it’s already looking that way. I remember in 2007, having seen snippets of his ascendancy through lower formulae, thinking “this kid is going to shake things up big time”. And from the second he stepped foot on the grid / first race, it was clear to see there was at least something a little special happening... fast forward 12 years; he’s beaten them all; established WDC, Alonso, in his very first year... something many argue Alonso never quite recovered from. He’s had his shaky era but still managed to win a race every season he’s raced. He’s broken nearly every record there is and even set some that hadn’t existed before like, only driver to win a race every season he’s participated. He’s consistently the team managers choice; even the year Rosberg got his WDC. Hindsight will be kind to Hamilton, but I’m not sure he needs it. He’s still as hungry and competitive and if anything, there’s a feeling that he’s still improving.

In any case; what’s great is we have the likes of Max, CLC and Lando to pick up the baton, as the next gen... with Alonso gone, Vettel on the decline and Hamilton with maybe another few years left in the game.

His success has to be seen in context though. He's been utterly dominant in the most dominant car, supported by a team with one of the biggest budgets.
So whilst not trying to do him a dis-service you have to remember and credit the support he's had.

[andyps]

768 said:

There's a recent Beyond the Grid with Ross Brawn on Brawn GP here but I think it's a reference to an older one on Michael Schumacher here.

Thanks, I'd listened to the recent one but not the earlier one.

[vdn]

eccles said:

vdn said:

I think that people will look back, once Hamilton retires, as arguably the best ever. I think it’s already looking that way. I remember in 2007, having seen snippets of his ascendancy through lower formulae, thinking “this kid is going to shake things up big time”. And from the second he stepped foot on the grid / first race, it was clear to see there was at least something a little special happening... fast forward 12 years; he’s beaten them all; established WDC, Alonso, in his very first year... something many argue Alonso never quite recovered from. He’s had his shaky era but still managed to win a race every season he’s raced. He’s broken nearly every record there is and even set some that hadn’t existed before like, only driver to win a race every season he’s participated. He’s consistently the team managers choice; even the year Rosberg got his WDC. Hindsight will be kind to Hamilton, but I’m not sure he needs it. He’s still as hungry and competitive and if anything, there’s a feeling that he’s still improving.

In any case; what’s great is we have the likes of Max, CLC and Lando to pick up the baton, as the next gen... with Alonso gone, Vettel on the decline and Hamilton with maybe another few years left in the game.

His success has to be seen in context though. He's been utterly dominant in the most dominant car, supported by a team with one of the biggest budgets.
So whilst not trying to do him a dis-service you have to remember and credit the support he's had.

But that goes without saying so it’s not even worth mentioning. Every champion has been in the best car or thereabouts. Last year could have been a Vettel / Ferrari year... ex Ferrari boss even admitted they’d have won with Lewis in their car. And the point you make also needs putting into context, again, by making clear that in spec series where the cars are the same, Hamilton shone like no other. You’re only looking at F1 but his spectacular career goes back further than that. Read the article linked above for a real insight. He’s the most complete driver there’s ever been in my opinion; and also able to understand and adapt better than most, as well as drive in all conditions. Vettel nailed the blown diffuser but was soundly beaten by Danny Ric when partnered. Lewis also sees rain and starts rubbing his hands in glee as he knows he’ll shine.

There are legends in this sport, and drivers who will never be forgotten; I think Hamilton has already proven he belongs in that upper tier - but what’s crazy is, he might get even better and stick around a few more years.

[Chris Stott]

eccles said:

His success has to be seen in context though. He's been utterly dominant in the most dominant car, supported by a team with one of the biggest budgets.
So whilst not trying to do him a dis-service you have to remember and credit the support he's had.

Multiple World champions almost always have the best car. Lewis is no different to Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Vettel, Hakinen.

One off champions like Button, Rosberg, Hill, etc, only win a championship because they are in the dominant car.

Difference is the very best win more than one.

[Vaud]

Chris Stott said:

Multiple World champions almost always have the best car. Lewis is no different to Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Vettel, Hakinen.

One off champions like Button, Rosberg, Hill, etc, only win a championship because they are in the dominant car.

Difference is the very best win more than one.

Does that apply to a single championship?
Only I always wonder where Mansell falls in this. Moaning Brummy but to do F1 and Indy in consecutive years was special?

[RB Will]

Chris Stott said:

Multiple World champions almost always have the best car. Lewis is no different to Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Vettel, Hakinen.

One off champions like Button, Rosberg, Hill, etc, only win a championship because they are in the dominant car.

Difference is the very best win more than one.

Just for my own interest, I’m not great with the historical stats, and I’m not knocking Ham here but are there any other champions who have had a team mate beat them to the title?

[anonymous-user]

Chris Stott said:

eccles said:

His success has to be seen in context though. He's been utterly dominant in the most dominant car, supported by a team with one of the biggest budgets.
So whilst not trying to do him a dis-service you have to remember and credit the support he's had.

Multiple World champions almost always have the best car. Lewis is no different to Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Vettel, Hakinen.

One off champions like Button, Rosberg, Hill, etc, only win a championship because they are in the dominant car.

Difference is the very best win more than one.

The Brawn was hardly dominant over the full year. Far from it.

Hill, certainly. He had a not very good rookie teammate who proved the rule himself the next year.

Rosberg was a worthy champion. He certainly had the best car but beat Hamilton. If Hamilton had retired instead Rosberg would have had 2 more championships by now.

[Deesee]

RB Will said:

Chris Stott said:

Multiple World champions almost always have the best car. Lewis is no different to Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Vettel, Hakinen.

One off champions like Button, Rosberg, Hill, etc, only win a championship because they are in the dominant car.

Difference is the very best win more than one.

Just for my own interest, I’m not great with the historical stats, and I’m not knocking Ham here but are there any other champions who have had a team mate beat them to the title?

The one that immediately springs to mind without trawling back is Senna over Prost ‘88, although Prost scored more points over the season, but that’s a story for another day..

[HardtopManual]

sparta6 said:

Really ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygi9YpfbFwM

The fortnightly crashing into Massa was becoming a telenova

He had an off season in 2011. Show me a driver who hasn't. But of course, you know that the original point was made largely with the current Hamilton in mind - and even then, I'm fairly sure he's the only driver on the grid who's won a race every season.

He'd already be on 7 WDCs if McLaren weren't such an operationally inept team while he was there.

(and half the crashes in that clip weren't Lewis' fault, or weren't even crashes)

Before I'm labelled a fan boy, I'm a fan of F1, and Ferrari in particular, but facts are facts.

[Europa1]

HardtopManual said:

sparta6 said:

Really ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygi9YpfbFwM

The fortnightly crashing into Massa was becoming a telenova

He had an off season in 2011. Show me a driver who hasn't. But of course, you know that the original point was made with the current Hamilton in mind.

He'd already be on 7 WDCs if McLaren weren't such an operationally inept team while he was there.

(and half the crashes in that clip weren't Lewis' fault, or weren't even crashes)

Before I'm labelled a fan boy, I'm a fan of F1, and Ferrari in particular, but facts are facts.

Indeed. Most of those clips were from the McLaren years. The fact he's won 4 out of Mercedes' 5 consecutive driver's championships would suggest he is, to say the least "a bit fking good".

[Chris Stott]

REALIST123 said:

The Brawn was hardly dominant over the full year. Far from it.

Hill, certainly. He had a not very good rookie teammate who proved the rule himself the next year.

Rosberg was a worthy champion. He certainly had the best car but beat Hamilton. If Hamilton had retired instead Rosberg would have had 2 more championships by now.

The Brawn was super dominant over the 1st half of the season and at least competitive over the 2nd half in most races.

Rosberg somewhat proves the point... he won one championship in a year where Lewis had poor reliability. And he then retired because he just couldn’t hold up to the pressure of competing with Lewis every 2 weeks.

[glazbagun]

RB Will said:

Just for my own interest, I’m not great with the historical stats, and I’m not knocking Ham here but are there any other champions who have had a team mate beat them to the title?

Prost beat Lauda, Senna and Rosberg (?)& Piquet beat Mansell.

[HighwayStar]

Chris Stott said:

REALIST123 said:

The Brawn was hardly dominant over the full year. Far from it.

Hill, certainly. He had a not very good rookie teammate who proved the rule himself the next year.

Rosberg was a worthy champion. He certainly had the best car but beat Hamilton. If Hamilton had retired instead Rosberg would have had 2 more championships by now.

The Brawn was super dominant over the 1st half of the season and at least competitive over the 2nd half in most races.

Rosberg somewhat proves the point... he won one championship in a year where Lewis had poor reliability. And he then retired because he just couldn’t hold up to the pressure of competing with Lewis every 2 weeks.

I think Rosberg was a very good driver, he dug deep and pushed himself to the limit to achieve his championship. His quest was helped by Lewis’s poor reliability and Rosberg was there to benefit. If Lewis hadn’t last his engine whilst in the lead, Rosberg wouldn’t have been champion.