Lewis Hamilton
Discussion
vdn said:
Hamilton is better than Prost IMO; he now has the calculated chess mentality of Prost but with the sheer speed and racecraft of the likes of Senna / MS, etc. Hamilton has grown into a hybrid of the best driver attributes; he used to rely more on pure speed and racecraft; but he's grown and seems to be growing further.
He is an amazing all rounder but I do wonder if the calculated chess mentality part is something he has at the moment just because he has the dominant car and knows it? So no point busting a gut, having a tight battle with someone for the sake of a couple of points when you know you are likely to win the next race anyway. You can afford a few races where you drop some points.He wasn't so calm and calculated when fighting for every point with Rosberg in 2016.
Will be interesting to see if the Merc becomes less dominant or inferior to something else will Hamilton revert to being a bit more cut throat and take more chances.
RB Will said:
Chris Stott said:
Multiple World champions almost always have the best car. Lewis is no different to Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Vettel, Hakinen.
One off champions like Button, Rosberg, Hill, etc, only win a championship because they are in the dominant car.
Difference is the very best win more than one.
Just for my own interest, I’m not great with the historical stats, and I’m not knocking Ham here but are there any other champions who have had a team mate beat them to the title? One off champions like Button, Rosberg, Hill, etc, only win a championship because they are in the dominant car.
Difference is the very best win more than one.
And of course, Nico beat Lewis.
Alternatively:
Drivers who have won at least 3 championships and never been beaten to a championship by a team mate:
Fangio
Jackie Stewart
Nelson Piquet
Schumacher
Seb Vettel
Can't think of any others. Other notable greats who won two and were never beaten to a championship by a team mate would be Clark, Hill (at least one of those two would have lost a title to a team mate in 1968 had fate not intervened), Ascari - I think.., Hakkinen, Fittipaldi, and Alonso.
Too many other factors to make this anything other than interesting reading, but I'd at least say that in these lists, Lewis doesn't find himself in bad company...
I've been giving Hamilton a lot of thought recently, I now have him up there with the greats. I have him above Senna and Schumacher now because his tremendous success has come without all the shenanigans over team mates, without dirty driving, without running other drivers clean off the track, without all that, I dunno, pomposity(?) that both Senna and Schumacher could carry about themselves.
One thing I had considered though, was that Senna had Prost as a team mate for 2 years, and Prost was as good as they came, Hamilton hasn't had that... but then remembered that Hamilton had had Alonso as a team mate, an Alonso at his peak, when he (Hamilton) was a rookie, and yet Hamilton absolutely raced Alonso and finished the year one place above in the standings.
Hamilton is fantastic. It's been 12 years of pleasure, watching him, and I have loved this year so far. The last two GP's gave been fantastic, Silverstone was a joy, Leclerc's driving was just fabulous, imo. (Did he pass Verstappen twice or three times, and Verstappen was in the quicker car imo).
One thing I had considered though, was that Senna had Prost as a team mate for 2 years, and Prost was as good as they came, Hamilton hasn't had that... but then remembered that Hamilton had had Alonso as a team mate, an Alonso at his peak, when he (Hamilton) was a rookie, and yet Hamilton absolutely raced Alonso and finished the year one place above in the standings.
Hamilton is fantastic. It's been 12 years of pleasure, watching him, and I have loved this year so far. The last two GP's gave been fantastic, Silverstone was a joy, Leclerc's driving was just fabulous, imo. (Did he pass Verstappen twice or three times, and Verstappen was in the quicker car imo).
Who says Alonso was at his peak then? He didn't.
Not sure I'd agree with the bit about Hammy not driving people off the road either. He used to swerve like crazy at the start of races (admittedly Schumacher did too but Schuey was singled out for it). I've definitely seen him use the full width of track on the exit while alongside people as well which often results in penalties.
He's done all the same things the other drivers have, including winding team mates up (don't forget it was him that disobeyed team orders with Alonso to start with), lying about on track incidents (Trulli) but I've got no issue with any of that. What bugs me is people making out he is whiter than white and never does anything "wrong".
Not sure I'd agree with the bit about Hammy not driving people off the road either. He used to swerve like crazy at the start of races (admittedly Schumacher did too but Schuey was singled out for it). I've definitely seen him use the full width of track on the exit while alongside people as well which often results in penalties.
He's done all the same things the other drivers have, including winding team mates up (don't forget it was him that disobeyed team orders with Alonso to start with), lying about on track incidents (Trulli) but I've got no issue with any of that. What bugs me is people making out he is whiter than white and never does anything "wrong".
Kraken said:
Who says Alonso was at his peak then? He didn't.
Not sure I'd agree with the bit about Hammy not driving people off the road either. He used to swerve like crazy at the start of races (admittedly Schumacher did too but Schuey was singled out for it). I've definitely seen him use the full width of track on the exit while alongside people as well which often results in penalties.
He's done all the same things the other drivers have, including winding team mates up (don't forget it was him that disobeyed team orders with Alonso to start with), lying about on track incidents (Trulli) but I've got no issue with any of that. What bugs me is people making out he is whiter than white and never does anything "wrong".
No, people are aware he had his moments in the past... Lewis made a load of them. All the top guys made mistakes, crashed out of points. Vettel disobeyed team orders, multi 21, Baku! Mexico fNot sure I'd agree with the bit about Hammy not driving people off the road either. He used to swerve like crazy at the start of races (admittedly Schumacher did too but Schuey was singled out for it). I've definitely seen him use the full width of track on the exit while alongside people as well which often results in penalties.
He's done all the same things the other drivers have, including winding team mates up (don't forget it was him that disobeyed team orders with Alonso to start with), lying about on track incidents (Trulli) but I've got no issue with any of that. What bugs me is people making out he is whiter than white and never does anything "wrong".
k you Charlie.The point is, you’ll need to go way back to find Lewis making a big mistake.
Kraken said:
Who says Alonso was at his peak then? He didn't.
don't forget it was him that disobeyed team orders with Alonso to start with
Reckon Alonso demanding No.1 status behind the scenes might've had something to do with thatdon't forget it was him that disobeyed team orders with Alonso to start with
Same Alonso who was receiving & using Ferrari tyre & weight distribution info via de La Rosa/ Coughlan to gain an advantage over his team mate/ Ferrari (FIA accepted Hamilton & his side of the garage had no knowledge of what was going on) ...& then attempted to blackmail his own team
Hamilton is no angel, but Alonso made him look like one
HighwayStar said:
No, people are aware he had his moments in the past... Lewis made a load of them. All the top guys made mistakes, crashed out of points. Vettel disobeyed team orders, multi 21, Baku! Mexico fk you Charlie.
The point is, you’ll need to go way back to find Lewis making a big mistake.
I think Lewis has dropped very few clangers, considering how long he has been at the very sharp end.k you Charlie.The point is, you’ll need to go way back to find Lewis making a big mistake.
What's more, he truly does learn and grows from any mistakes, which I think is what impresses me as much as anything about him. He's pretty much as complete a driver as we have ever had in the sport, I think.
vdn said:
sparta6 said:
Europa1 said:
HardtopManual said:
sparta6 said:
Really ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygi9YpfbFwM
The fortnightly crashing into Massa was becoming a telenova
He had an off season in 2011. Show me a driver who hasn't. But of course, you know that the original point was made with the current Hamilton in mind.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygi9YpfbFwM
The fortnightly crashing into Massa was becoming a telenova
He'd already be on 7 WDCs if McLaren weren't such an operationally inept team while he was there.
(and half the crashes in that clip weren't Lewis' fault, or weren't even crashes)
Before I'm labelled a fan boy, I'm a fan of F1, and Ferrari in particular, but facts are facts.
king good".Lewis was also swapping paint with team mate Rosberg.
Hamilton ain't no Prost, despite having more WDC's with Mercedes.
Since Rosberg, Lewis has not received a tough challenge. An occasional glimpse from Vettel perhaps.
Prost was duking it out with Mansell, Senna, Piquet etc simultaneously.
Unless Bottas continues to improve it may be the young guns of Charles and Max who can provide Lewis with a proper challenge.
Enjoyable for both Lewis and the audience.
"We truthfully have no idea at all how Lewis did the fastest lap of the race on 32-lap old, hard tyres," head strategist James Vowles told the Mercedes YouTube channel. "Hardest tyre available, completely used up and yet he does a fantastic lap at the end. Well done to him, [but we have] no idea.“
Beats me too. Surely it utterly destroys the argument about tyre degradation and performance? Or is he just that good at plundering the depths of what’s possible when he wants to make a point?
https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/27213500/merc...
Beats me too. Surely it utterly destroys the argument about tyre degradation and performance? Or is he just that good at plundering the depths of what’s possible when he wants to make a point?
https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/27213500/merc...
Graveworm said:
He was the reining WDC at the time.
Doesn't mean he was at his peak. Alonso said he was driving better during his second stint at McLaren. A driver at the back of the grid can be performing at a far higher level than a driver near the front but the car doesn't let them show it. Just because someone has won a WDC it doesn't mean they are at the peak of the abilities by any means. By that token Hammy wasn't any better in 2009 than is he today.Kraken said:
Graveworm said:
He was the reining WDC at the time.
Doesn't mean he was at his peak. Alonso said he was driving better during his second stint at McLaren. A driver at the back of the grid can be performing at a far higher level than a driver near the front but the car doesn't let them show it. Just because someone has won a WDC it doesn't mean they are at the peak of the abilities by any means. By that token Hammy wasn't any better in 2009 than is he today.
So measuring by wins isn’t a way of assessing performance. Right.
We will just take your word for it that those bringing up the rear may be performing better than the championship leader despite it being impossible to demonstrate or prove.
p1stonhead said:
Kraken said:
Graveworm said:
He was the reining WDC at the time.
Doesn't mean he was at his peak. Alonso said he was driving better during his second stint at McLaren. A driver at the back of the grid can be performing at a far higher level than a driver near the front but the car doesn't let them show it. Just because someone has won a WDC it doesn't mean they are at the peak of the abilities by any means. By that token Hammy wasn't any better in 2009 than is he today.So measuring by wins isn’t a way of assessing performance. Right.
We will just take your word for it that those bringing up the rear may be performing better than the championship leader despite it being impossible to demonstrate or prove.
He was never the same after being paired with Lewis. Alonso could not comprehend Hamilton’s speed and he’s nigh on admitted as much, in the years since. Alonso also holds Hamilton in the highest regard and has said on numerous occasions that Hamilton is special; winning in sub par cars, driving around issues and also, driving well in any and all conditions. Alonso has never offered the same level of respect for Vettel or any other current driver.
sparta6 said:
Lewis has certainly grown well and prospered within Mercedes.
Since Rosberg, Lewis has not received a tough challenge. An occasional glimpse from Vettel perhaps.
Prost was duking it out with Mansell, Senna, Piquet etc simultaneously.
Unless Bottas continues to improve it may be the young guns of Charles and Max who can provide Lewis with a proper challenge.
Enjoyable for both Lewis and the audience.
Not sure if Mansell or Senna would have agreed about Prost duking it out Since Rosberg, Lewis has not received a tough challenge. An occasional glimpse from Vettel perhaps.
Prost was duking it out with Mansell, Senna, Piquet etc simultaneously.
Unless Bottas continues to improve it may be the young guns of Charles and Max who can provide Lewis with a proper challenge.
Enjoyable for both Lewis and the audience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFZKkK6odgY
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