Lewis Hamilton

[p1stonhead]

vdn said:

p1stonhead said:

Kraken said:

Graveworm said:

He was the reining WDC at the time.

Doesn't mean he was at his peak. Alonso said he was driving better during his second stint at McLaren. A driver at the back of the grid can be performing at a far higher level than a driver near the front but the car doesn't let them show it. Just because someone has won a WDC it doesn't mean they are at the peak of the abilities by any means. By that token Hammy wasn't any better in 2009 than is he today.

So measuring by wins isn’t a way of assessing performance. Right.

We will just take your word for it that those bringing up the rear may be performing better than the championship leader despite it being impossible to demonstrate or prove.

Of course it is man and machine and many say Alonso drove his best at Ferrari... in any case; to say he wasn’t at his peak / or close to; as a two time WDC is a little silly I agree.

He was never the same after being paired with Lewis. Alonso could not comprehend Hamilton’s speed and he’s nigh on admitted as much, in the years since. Alonso also holds Hamilton in the highest regard and has said on numerous occasions that Hamilton is special; winning in sub par cars, driving around issues and also, driving well in any and all conditions. Alonso has never offered the same level of respect for Vettel or any other current driver.

I agree. He was a tt when at McLaren but once out and separated from Lewis he became one of my favourites.

He knew Lewis was just a level he wasn’t expecting in a team mate and once separated, they both I think admitted the other was the best they had raced against.

[kiseca]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

sparta6 said:

Lewis has certainly grown well and prospered within Mercedes.

Since Rosberg, Lewis has not received a tough challenge. An occasional glimpse from Vettel perhaps.

Prost was duking it out with Mansell, Senna, Piquet etc simultaneously.

Unless Bottas continues to improve it may be the young guns of Charles and Max who can provide Lewis with a proper challenge.
Enjoyable for both Lewis and the audience.

Not sure if Mansell or Senna would have agreed about Prost duking it out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFZKkK6odgY

Prost beat both of them in identical cars so not sure they'd have much of an argument.

[Bo_apex]

vdn said:

Of course it is man and machine and many say Alonso drove his best at Ferrari... in any case; to say he wasn’t at his peak / or close to; as a two time WDC is a little silly I agree.

He was never the same after being paired with Lewis. Alonso could not comprehend Hamilton’s speed and he’s nigh on admitted as much, in the years since. Alonso also holds Hamilton in the highest regard and has said on numerous occasions that Hamilton is special; winning in sub par cars, driving around issues and also, driving well in any and all conditions. Alonso has never offered the same level of respect for Vettel or any other current driver.

The new engine regs didn't help Alonso either.

"He told me: 'There is no power in the engine,'" Di Montezemolo says. "And the third day was Fernando and he told me exactly the same. And I understood that the season was over because it was impossible to work on the engine, because under the rules it was frozen.

"I think that was the moment Fernando said: 'If I continue to stay at Ferrari, I will never again win a championship.' Because it was really a shocking moment."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/46238233

[anonymous-user]

I'm not a big Hamilton fan, but I think Jezza gets it right here.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9544870/jeremy-clark...

[TheDeuce]

Grahamdub said:

I'm not a big Hamilton fan, but I think Jezza gets it right here.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9544870/jeremy-clark...

Didn't quite get the headline right though

Lewis's Hamilton's...

[vdn]

Grahamdub said:

I'm not a big Hamilton fan, but I think Jezza gets it right here.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9544870/jeremy-clark...

There are a few good points but as usual with Clarkson; he’s wrong. The F1 fans are devout and were treated to a great race at Silverstone; so why will they be on the village green watching cricket next year? Surely, the opposite is true... as well, there have been boring seasons and eras even in the past; but Silverstone still attracts the most crowds, year in year out.

In other words; he is just plain wrong. He’s a dunce who has to clutch at straws to muster up an article that is on the right side of being controversial or challenging. I put Clarkson into the ‘best ignored’ category many many years ago.

Having said that; yes to the cars overtaking more... everyone wants that; it means dialling back aero, which might be a backward step for many.

[anonymous-user]

vdn said:

There are a few good points but as usual with Clarkson; he’s wrong. The F1 fans are devout and were treated to a great race at Silverstone; so why will they be on the village green watching cricket next year? Surely, the opposite is true... as well, there have been boring seasons and eras even in the past; but Silverstone still attracts the most crowds, year in year out.

In other words; he is just plain wrong. He’s a dunce who has to clutch at straws to muster up an article that is on the right side of being controversial or challenging. I put Clarkson into the ‘best ignored’ category many many years ago.

Having said that; yes to the cars overtaking more... everyone wants that; it means dialling back aero, which might be a backward step for many.

I meant more that Hamilton's win was pretty much ignored in the press the next day. Everything else is just Jezza being Jezza

[vdn]

Grahamdub said:

vdn said:

There are a few good points but as usual with Clarkson; he’s wrong. The F1 fans are devout and were treated to a great race at Silverstone; so why will they be on the village green watching cricket next year? Surely, the opposite is true... as well, there have been boring seasons and eras even in the past; but Silverstone still attracts the most crowds, year in year out.

In other words; he is just plain wrong. He’s a dunce who has to clutch at straws to muster up an article that is on the right side of being controversial or challenging. I put Clarkson into the ‘best ignored’ category many many years ago.

Having said that; yes to the cars overtaking more... everyone wants that; it means dialling back aero, which might be a backward step for many.

I meant more that Hamilton's win was pretty much ignored in the press the next day. Everything else is just Jezza being Jezza

Agreed! He’s right about that; F1 has always had a tough time against the likes of tennis and footie.

[Poppiecock]

vdn said:

Agreed! He’s right about that; F1 has always had a tough time against the likes of tennis and footie.

On that Sunday you had 2 truly competitive sporting finals up against a near dead cert result.

I used to get up at all hours to watch F1.

2 years ago, I cancelled my Sky subscription. F1 being a 1 horse race was a big influence on that decision.

[cossy400]

I rarely watch it now but stuff like this makes it dusty in my front room.

Fair play to Mercedes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSoQtwbpcGU

[Durzel]

Jezza's football analogy is perhaps more nuanced than he thinks.

The reason people support Chelsea etc is in my opinion because they can still win the Premiership even if they don't beat Man City the two times they face them.

If a team that is always beaten by them had to play them every week to win then the ultimate result - the league trophy - would be a foregone conclusion very early on into the season. Boring. As for tennis and cricket, everyone is using the same bats and rackets so the differentiating factors are 100% skill and decision making, and naturally this means results are tighter.

F1 is, imo, hobbled by a combination of things.. Unrestrained technological development means one team is always likely to make the best of the current regulations, leaving others playing catch up (while the dominant team can continue to refine their own package) while the season is running. The cars have such a narrow effective operating envelope too. Dirty air? Engine overheats and tyres get ruined. Wheel to wheel contact? Likely to lead to either race ending damage or damage that renders the aero of the car ineffective, making it impossible for the driver to compete.

So what you get is every race basically being Mercedes to lose. How is that exciting? LeClerc and Verstappen battles and other action involving people who have got no hope of winning, and by design never had any hope of winning even when the season started, do not change that fact.

[anonymous-user]

cossy400 said:

I rarely watch it now but stuff like this makes it dusty in my front room.

Fair play to Mercedes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSoQtwbpcGU

This is brilliant.

On Hamilton though I think he will never truly get the credit he perhaps deserves for three factors that are likely out of his control.

The first is that he has always been in a top car and never had that growth in the sport, the plucky underdog us brits like who goes on to win it, like Jenson etc.

The second is he always appears more of a brand than a personality, he has been trained for this and you rarely see a true character behind the racer, this could be his personality too, but it makes it harder to truly love.

And finally, the sport is on its arse. It is no longer enjoyable to watch, it no longer feels like the pinnacle of anything, it all feels too fake, too regulated and more about economy and driving within the limits than driving on them.

[anonymous-user]

cossy400 said:

I rarely watch it now but stuff like this makes it dusty in my front room.

Fair play to Mercedes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSoQtwbpcGU

That was good. They should have let Lewis do a couple of laps in a William's after too.

[anonymous-user]

kiseca said:

Prost beat both of them in identical cars so not sure they'd have much of an argument.

Prost crashed into Senna in 1989 making sure he won the Championship. Not exactly a fair way of beating someone. Senna repaid the favour a year later after all the politics.

Mansell was the clear number 2 at Ferrari so again not exactly the full facts.

[Deesee]

What’s most likely to happen first: Verstappen pole, Leclerc win, Gasly podium, or Hamilton 6th championship?

[CABC]

vdn said:

The F1 fans are devout

seriously?
no sport survives on its devout fan base because they're simply too small a core. that's why Liberty is concerned about falling viewing figures, because the non-devout majority are slipping away.
Also, a controversy-seeking buffoon he maybe, but Clarkson is no dunce. silly accusation.

[Graveworm]

CABC said:

seriously?
no sport survives on its devout fan base because they're simply too small a core. that's why Liberty is concerned about falling viewing figures, because the non-devout majority are slipping away.
Also, a controversy-seeking buffoon he maybe, but Clarkson is no dunce. silly accusation.

The UK is not the world.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.formula...

[Graveworm]

Durzel said:

Jezza's football analogy is perhaps more nuanced than he thinks.

The reason people support Chelsea etc is in my opinion because they can still win the Premiership even if they don't beat Man City the two times they face them.

If a team that is always beaten by them had to play them every week to win then the ultimate result - the league trophy - would be a foregone conclusion very early on into the season. Boring. As for tennis and cricket, everyone is using the same bats and rackets so the differentiating factors are 100% skill and decision making, and naturally this means results are tighter.

F1 is, imo, hobbled by a combination of things.. Unrestrained technological development means one team is always likely to make the best of the current regulations, leaving others playing catch up (while the dominant team can continue to refine their own package) while the season is running. The cars have such a narrow effective operating envelope too. Dirty air? Engine overheats and tyres get ruined. Wheel to wheel contact? Likely to lead to either race ending damage or damage that renders the aero of the car ineffective, making it impossible for the driver to compete.

So what you get is every race basically being Mercedes to lose. How is that exciting? LeClerc and Verstappen battles and other action involving people who have got no hope of winning, and by design never had any hope of winning even when the season started, do not change that fact.

Millions of football fans support teams that don't have a chance of winning the championship. That's what I don't get about the running down of F1, why is only watching overtaking exciting, and why is it only exciting if it involves the lead car.
Qualifying is interesting, for many, no one gets overtaken. The mid field battle is fascinating. The politics are interesting. Mercedes are dominant but the results flatter them. They won at 2 possibly 3 tracks they shouldn't; which, if it had gone the other way and Ferrari or Red Bull had won, where they shouldn't, people would be full of praise fot F1 delivering upset.

[CABC]

i was thinking globally, i didn't realise the trend had reversed!

big impact from new markets, India, China and France!?

[vdn]

CABC said:

vdn said:

The F1 fans are devout

seriously?
no sport survives on its devout fan base because they're simply too small a core. that's why Liberty is concerned about falling viewing figures, because the non-devout majority are slipping away.
Also, a controversy-seeking buffoon he maybe, but Clarkson is no dunce. silly accusation.

I was speaking about Silverstone attendance specifically, when I said that; in reference to Clarkson saying that next year, people will watch cricket instead... which I rightly called as, bo11ocks.

Clarkson is, or isn’t, a dunce depending on where one stands on things. My opinion is that he’s a dunce. It’s fine if you think otherwise.

Aside from all of that, he ignores the fact that viewing figures are up but we can all agree, closer racing is better; there is better racing, quite often in lower formulae and people can watch that if they wish.