Lewis Hamilton
Discussion
RB Will said:
Didn't they make Bottas let Lewis through for the win last year when he was not at huge risk of losing the title? hence all the "Valteri, its James..." memes
They did. As I said, they only do it to either protect or secure a title. In this case it put an important points gap between Lewis and Vettel, hence making it far more likely that their driver, Lewis, would take another WDC. Bottas on the other hand was already over 100 points behind Lewis at that stage, so it was best for the team to concentrate both drivers efforts on beating Vettel. Bottas career = no impact.
Lewis career = likely WDC
Mercedes team = likely WCC
Easy decision. Logical and both drivers understood that - they understood that ahead of the decision being made.
angrymoby said:
RB Will said:
Didn't they make Bottas let Lewis through for the win last year when he was not at huge risk of losing the title? hence all the "Valteri, its James..." memes
No.Bottas was told to hold station.
But Kimi was told to let Seb through.
TheDeuce said:
There were two separate team orders to Bottas that race: https://f1ingenerale.com/russian-gp-read-the-unair...
ahhh yeah, Russia ...presumed we were talking about the German GP that is this weekendPoppiecock said:
With near 100% reliability, you may not need to stipulate No.1 status in the same way... but you can guarantee Mercedes would pull rank on Bottas if Lewis was under threat from Max and Seb.
Mercedes have also protected Lewis at the start of a season.2013 at both Australia and Sepang, Nico instructed not to pass Lewis.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/22062571
Nico should have simply done a Max and said "NO"
sparta6 said:
Mercedes have also protected Lewis at the start of a season.
2013 at both Australia and Sepang, Nico instructed not to pass Lewis.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/22062571
Nico should have simply done a Max and said "NO"
Simple solution, be faster & in front...or be further up the WDC table- it's not rocket science2013 at both Australia and Sepang, Nico instructed not to pass Lewis.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/22062571
Nico should have simply done a Max and said "NO"
angrymoby said:
sparta6 said:
Mercedes have also protected Lewis at the start of a season.
2013 at both Australia and Sepang, Nico instructed not to pass Lewis.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/22062571
Nico should have simply done a Max and said "NO"
Simple solution, be faster & in front...or be further up the WDC table- it's not rocket science2013 at both Australia and Sepang, Nico instructed not to pass Lewis.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/22062571
Nico should have simply done a Max and said "NO"
although it's a bit difficult being further up the WDC table at Australia
sparta6 said:
Poppiecock said:
With near 100% reliability, you may not need to stipulate No.1 status in the same way... but you can guarantee Mercedes would pull rank on Bottas if Lewis was under threat from Max and Seb.
Mercedes have also protected Lewis at the start of a season.2013 at both Australia and Sepang, Nico instructed not to pass Lewis.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/22062571
Nico should have simply done a Max and said "NO"
MarkwG said:
There's a world of difference between being told to let the car behind past, & asking someone not to unnecessarily challenge the driver ahead, risking both cars ..
Only if you’re trying to spin a story about Lewis somehow holding the moral high ground over Schumacher.We simply don’t really know what would happen should Mercedes feel truly threatened by other teams. We can speculate, using evidence such as the above, that they are more than willing to put one driver in a favourable position. But nobody has ever really been close enough to put them under pressure.
Poppiecock said:
Only if you’re trying to spin a story about Lewis somehow holding the moral high ground over Schumacher.
We simply don’t really know what would happen should Mercedes feel truly threatened by other teams. We can speculate, using evidence such as the above, that they are more than willing to put one driver in a favourable position. But nobody has ever really been close enough to put them under pressure.
Vettel was close enough last year, ahead twice in the season I think - still only the single team order we have discussed here. Until ferrari went and scuppered themselves last year, the fight was pretty intense. Throughout it all, for vast majority of the time Mercedes & both their drivers said they free to race, and on track, they did. The fact they did eventually give a couple of orders to swing a race and get a significant points advantage for Lewis is just common sense really.We simply don’t really know what would happen should Mercedes feel truly threatened by other teams. We can speculate, using evidence such as the above, that they are more than willing to put one driver in a favourable position. But nobody has ever really been close enough to put them under pressure.
Anyway, yes - they will push the button if it's for the good of the team, if there is no other sensible alternative. They have been under pressure a few times, a couple of times they have pushed the button. Other times, they have apparently simply put a huge amount of faith in their drivers to run closely, safely and get the job done.
vdn said:
sparta6 said:
HighwayStar said:
Sparta, bored and on his usual wind up 
Departure lounges always provide a fresh perspective on things 
ks it would seem The red team special privileges where used to the full during the Schumacher / Brawn years.
If the FIA where not willing or unable to pick up any irregularities why should the red team complain ?
Another angle from a long term follower of F1 and all round motor sport fan.
Judging how good a driver is by results and championships when the machinery and budgets vary so much is futile .
In the 5 years of the hybrid era , 1 team out of 10 have won 75% of the races .
F1 is a technology , strategy and budget sport , I can never understand why people find the drivers performance/championships so fascinating . I can't think of any other form of motor sport that is less about the driver/rider than F1 and yet people discuss driver results infinitum
f1 needs BoP , if Williams were able to qualify against Mercedes on an even playing field then we would be much better informed as to a drivers ability and it would sort out the budget question that the FIA say they are so concerned about .
Lewis Hamilton is a brilliant driver no doubt , probably one of the best ever , but with F1 as it is today we don't know if he is THE best which is what a lot of people seem to be claiming here .
And the interesting thing is that I think LH would relish the chance to prove just how good he is against any challenger in equal machinery . I'm hoping the 2021 regs will give us a true Drivers Championship . . . . . . . . . . . but I'm not holding my breath
Judging how good a driver is by results and championships when the machinery and budgets vary so much is futile .
In the 5 years of the hybrid era , 1 team out of 10 have won 75% of the races .
F1 is a technology , strategy and budget sport , I can never understand why people find the drivers performance/championships so fascinating . I can't think of any other form of motor sport that is less about the driver/rider than F1 and yet people discuss driver results infinitum
f1 needs BoP , if Williams were able to qualify against Mercedes on an even playing field then we would be much better informed as to a drivers ability and it would sort out the budget question that the FIA say they are so concerned about .
Lewis Hamilton is a brilliant driver no doubt , probably one of the best ever , but with F1 as it is today we don't know if he is THE best which is what a lot of people seem to be claiming here .
And the interesting thing is that I think LH would relish the chance to prove just how good he is against any challenger in equal machinery . I'm hoping the 2021 regs will give us a true Drivers Championship . . . . . . . . . . . but I'm not holding my breath
Simoncelli58 said:
Another angle from a long term follower of F1 and all round motor sport fan.
Judging how good a driver is by results and championships when the machinery and budgets vary so much is futile .
In the 5 years of the hybrid era , 1 team out of 10 have won 75% of the races .
F1 is a technology , strategy and budget sport , I can never understand why people find the drivers performance/championships so fascinating . I can't think of any other form of motor sport that is less about the driver/rider than F1 and yet people discuss driver results infinitum
f1 needs BoP , if Williams were able to qualify against Mercedes on an even playing field then we would be much better informed as to a drivers ability and it would sort out the budget question that the FIA say they are so concerned about .
Lewis Hamilton is a brilliant driver no doubt , probably one of the best ever , but with F1 as it is today we don't know if he is THE best which is what a lot of people seem to be claiming here .
And the interesting thing is that I think LH would relish the chance to prove just how good he is against any challenger in equal machinery . I'm hoping the 2021 regs will give us a true Drivers Championship . . . . . . . . . . . but I'm not holding my breath
You’re right to be wary of 2021, given that the big teams are already spending significant resource on understanding and preparing for the likely situation then, which will possibly render any budget cuts ineffective for that year at least. Judging how good a driver is by results and championships when the machinery and budgets vary so much is futile .
In the 5 years of the hybrid era , 1 team out of 10 have won 75% of the races .
F1 is a technology , strategy and budget sport , I can never understand why people find the drivers performance/championships so fascinating . I can't think of any other form of motor sport that is less about the driver/rider than F1 and yet people discuss driver results infinitum
f1 needs BoP , if Williams were able to qualify against Mercedes on an even playing field then we would be much better informed as to a drivers ability and it would sort out the budget question that the FIA say they are so concerned about .
Lewis Hamilton is a brilliant driver no doubt , probably one of the best ever , but with F1 as it is today we don't know if he is THE best which is what a lot of people seem to be claiming here .
And the interesting thing is that I think LH would relish the chance to prove just how good he is against any challenger in equal machinery . I'm hoping the 2021 regs will give us a true Drivers Championship . . . . . . . . . . . but I'm not holding my breath
Simoncelli58 said:
Another angle from a long term follower of F1 and all round motor sport fan.
Judging how good a driver is by results and championships when the machinery and budgets vary so much is futile .
In the 5 years of the hybrid era , 1 team out of 10 have won 75% of the races .
F1 is a technology , strategy and budget sport , I can never understand why people find the drivers performance/championships so fascinating . I can't think of any other form of motor sport that is less about the driver/rider than F1 and yet people discuss driver results infinitum
f1 needs BoP , if Williams were able to qualify against Mercedes on an even playing field then we would be much better informed as to a drivers ability and it would sort out the budget question that the FIA say they are so concerned about .
Lewis Hamilton is a brilliant driver no doubt , probably one of the best ever , but with F1 as it is today we don't know if he is THE best which is what a lot of people seem to be claiming here .
And the interesting thing is that I think LH would relish the chance to prove just how good he is against any challenger in equal machinery . I'm hoping the 2021 regs will give us a true Drivers Championship . . . . . . . . . . . but I'm not holding my breath
How many times!!!!?Judging how good a driver is by results and championships when the machinery and budgets vary so much is futile .
In the 5 years of the hybrid era , 1 team out of 10 have won 75% of the races .
F1 is a technology , strategy and budget sport , I can never understand why people find the drivers performance/championships so fascinating . I can't think of any other form of motor sport that is less about the driver/rider than F1 and yet people discuss driver results infinitum
f1 needs BoP , if Williams were able to qualify against Mercedes on an even playing field then we would be much better informed as to a drivers ability and it would sort out the budget question that the FIA say they are so concerned about .
Lewis Hamilton is a brilliant driver no doubt , probably one of the best ever , but with F1 as it is today we don't know if he is THE best which is what a lot of people seem to be claiming here .
And the interesting thing is that I think LH would relish the chance to prove just how good he is against any challenger in equal machinery . I'm hoping the 2021 regs will give us a true Drivers Championship . . . . . . . . . . . but I'm not holding my breath
Hamilton dominated in equal machinery pre F1. You can even watch some of the races on YouTube.
Alonso has already said he puts him in the top 5 ever, up there with Senna and Fangio.
But some posters on Pistonheads know better
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