Lewis Hamilton
Discussion
From a points perspective it was a respectful season, but Alonso was massively insecure in 2007 and McLaren's management of him and the team was a disaster. So I guess you're right, with everything that was going on it was rather impressive. Especially his performance in Monaco which upset Hamilton
TobyTR said:
From a points perspective it was a respectful season, but Alonso was massively insecure in 2007 and McLaren's management of him and the team was a disaster. So I guess you're right, with everything that was going on it was rather impressive. Especially his performance in Monaco which upset Hamilton
Clutching at straws much!? Upset Hamilton? Who do you think got under who’s skin the most??
Perhaps the rookie turning up and out classing the de facto best on grid upset more than just Alonso... I’m looking at you Toby
Alonso himself states Hamilton is a great and top 5, alongside Fangio and Senna. But, you disagree it seems.
Hilarious.
Putting words in one's mouth, pal. I haven't said any of that.
Watch the 2007 season again - the fallout started at Monaco when Alonso beat Hamilton, and Ron Dennis said to Alonso "be kind to Lewis", then it escalated from there. I've told it how it is.
I've never mentioned anything in your post (again). Who's clutching at straws now?
Watch the 2007 season again - the fallout started at Monaco when Alonso beat Hamilton, and Ron Dennis said to Alonso "be kind to Lewis", then it escalated from there. I've told it how it is.
I've never mentioned anything in your post (again). Who's clutching at straws now?
vdn said:
Clutching at straws much!? Upset Hamilton? Who do you think got under who’s skin the most??
Perhaps the rookie turning up and out classing the de facto best on grid upset more than just Alonso... I’m looking at you Toby
Alonso himself states Hamilton is a great and top 5, alongside Fangio and Senna. But, you disagree it seems.
Hilarious.
Interesting point about the Lewis being a rookie back then and rather rudely climbing up the grid and sitting at the top forever after. It's interesting because now we have a new wave of talent - I suppose if Lewis were challenged by the new blood and still emerged victorious more often than not, that would be quite impressive - the ability to conquer the old guard and also the new guard. To that point, it really would be great to see him wheel to wheel with CLC/Max. Unfortunately there is almost always bound to be a Vettel or Bottas in harms way before anyone can get near Lewis. I'm sure it will happen this season though, patience is a virtue. I'm not counting Monaco with Max of course, that really doesn't count as racing.
Alonso got unlucky in 2007; how could he have known what was about to happen; a milestone in the sport; the arrival of a future legend and the most successful driver of all time... or getting there, depending on which stats one goes by.
Poor old Alonso had the rug pulled form under him and you could tell he didn’t know which way to turn.
At least he’s come to terms with it now; or at least, one would hope.
Poor old Alonso had the rug pulled form under him and you could tell he didn’t know which way to turn.
At least he’s come to terms with it now; or at least, one would hope.
vdn said:
Alonso got unlucky in 2007; how could he have known what was about to happen; a milestone in the sport; the arrival of a future legend and the most successful driver of all time... or getting there, depending on which stats one goes by.
Poor old Alonso had the rug pulled form under him and you could tell he didn’t know which way to turn.
At least he’s come to terms with it now; or at least, one would hope.
Try and post facts and informed opinion from the F1 drivers and personnel for once, instead of your constant biased ill-informed opinion. Poor old Alonso had the rug pulled form under him and you could tell he didn’t know which way to turn.
At least he’s come to terms with it now; or at least, one would hope.
TobyTR said:
vdn said:
Alonso got unlucky in 2007; how could he have known what was about to happen; a milestone in the sport; the arrival of a future legend and the most successful driver of all time... or getting there, depending on which stats one goes by.
Poor old Alonso had the rug pulled form under him and you could tell he didn’t know which way to turn.
At least he’s come to terms with it now; or at least, one would hope.
Try and post facts and informed opinion from the F1 drivers and personnel for once, instead of your constant biased ill-informed opinion. Poor old Alonso had the rug pulled form under him and you could tell he didn’t know which way to turn.
At least he’s come to terms with it now; or at least, one would hope.
Maybe you missed it
vdn said:
TobyTR said:
vdn said:
Alonso got unlucky in 2007; how could he have known what was about to happen; a milestone in the sport; the arrival of a future legend and the most successful driver of all time... or getting there, depending on which stats one goes by. Poor old Alonso had the rug pulled form under him and you could tell he didn’t know which way to turn.
At least he’s come to terms with it now; or at least, one would hope.
Try and post facts and informed opinion from the F1 drivers and personnel for once, instead of your constant biased ill-informed opinion. At least he’s come to terms with it now; or at least, one would hope.
Maybe you missed it
nice try though. If you're going to debate sensibly, stick to what has been posted and don't try deliberately misconstrue others posts for your own benefitThere's no doubting he is in top-5 all-time. The original point on here was that he's not THE all-time complete F1 driver. And I've posted Schumacher (like in 2004) showing a better example of this, with quotes from F1 drivers and the stats to back it up
When Hamilton wins a title in that fashion, with more competition and a less dominant car, with no weekend walk-abouts that he is prone to from time-to-time, then I will happily admit he's up there as THE 'complete' all-time F1 driver.
Edited by TobyTR on Tuesday 23 July 03:09
ks it would seem TobyTR said:
vdn said:
TobyTR said:
vdn said:
Alonso got unlucky in 2007; how could he have known what was about to happen; a milestone in the sport; the arrival of a future legend and the most successful driver of all time... or getting there, depending on which stats one goes by. Poor old Alonso had the rug pulled form under him and you could tell he didn’t know which way to turn.
At least he’s come to terms with it now; or at least, one would hope.
Try and post facts and informed opinion from the F1 drivers and personnel for once, instead of your constant biased ill-informed opinion. At least he’s come to terms with it now; or at least, one would hope.
Maybe you missed it
nice try though. If you're going to debate sensibly, stick to what has been posted and don't try deliberately misconstrue others posts for your own benefitThere's no doubting he is in top-5 all-time. The original point on here was that he's not THE all-time complete F1 driver. And I've posted Schumacher (like in 2004) showing a better example of this, with quotes from F1 drivers and the stats to back it up
When Hamilton wins a title in that fashion, with more competition and a less dominant car, with no weekend walk-abouts that he is prone to from time-to-time, then I will happily admit he's up there as THE 'complete' all-time F1 driver.
Edited by TobyTR on Tuesday 23 July 03:09
Last year, Hamilton was perfection... he had to be. Vettel had an equal car and a car that was deemed a better package at some tracks. The Mercedes was not ‘dominant’. Hamilton is also racing a 4 x WDC for the title, as well as arguably, the most talented grid in a long time.
MS, as has been stated earlier in the thread umpteen times; enjoyed number one status; Hamilton has never asked for status, MS enjoyed unlimited testing and other bias as well as employing a boat load of nasty tactics. There’s nobody that can deny that MS was a nasty bugger on track and over stepped the mark on numerous occasions. Big time. Hamilton has never reached the lows that MS did and is still smashing his records; without contractual status and without unlimited testing. Logically, Hamilton is a more complete driver than MS.
History will look back far more kindly on Hamilton’s career, and I include pre F1 in that where, again, he proved in equal machinery that he’s on another level.
TobyTR said:
Alonso beat him 2010-2013, when Hamilton had arguably the better cars.
You've lost the plot & definitely need your head examined ...because the ONLY way you know for sure, is when they are in the SAME car.Micheal, for whatever reasons, has only been tested by one driver- Nico ...who funnily enough went onto become a WDC
Hamilton has taken on & beaten Rosberg, Button & Alonso ...& also doesn't seem to care who is on the other side of the garage
Funny how some Schumi fans seem to becoming more & more agitated, as Hamilton inches towards that wins total & that number of WDC's
Unlimited testing was available for everyone - all the decently financed teams used to pound around their local track developing the car. MS was particularly good at this and is credited with turning Ferrari into winners from his development work. One of the big challenges with F1 today is that, if you get a jump on everyone on day 1 of the new rules, the lack of testing time means it's almost impossible to catch up. Ferrari have spent years trying to catch Mercedes under the hybrid rules and just about managed half a season of parity before Mercedes revised their packaged and leapt forward again. It must be soul destroying to know you will never get enough testing time to get yourself level.
This is why it's so hard to make proper comparisons - Hamilton is good, but just how good is he? - Mercedes have had such a dominant position under the hybrid rules that they've been largely unchallenged.
However, I don't think we'll ever see the likes of MS again - someone who can jump into an uncompetitive car and drag it to the front through testing and development. The rising stars these days land in competitive seats early in their careers and either maintain their stature or fall from grace down the grid.
This is why it's so hard to make proper comparisons - Hamilton is good, but just how good is he? - Mercedes have had such a dominant position under the hybrid rules that they've been largely unchallenged.
However, I don't think we'll ever see the likes of MS again - someone who can jump into an uncompetitive car and drag it to the front through testing and development. The rising stars these days land in competitive seats early in their careers and either maintain their stature or fall from grace down the grid.
angrymoby said:
TobyTR said:
Alonso beat him 2010-2013, when Hamilton had arguably the better cars.
You've lost the plot & definitely need your head examined ...because the ONLY way you know for sure, is when they are in the SAME car.Micheal, for whatever reasons, has only been tested by one driver- Nico ...who funnily enough went onto become a WDC
Hamilton has taken on & beaten Rosberg, Button & Alonso ...& also doesn't seem to care who is on the other side of the garage
Funny how some Schumi fans seem to becoming more & more agitated, as Hamilton inches towards that wins total & that number of WDC's
So true. Hamilton has been paired with multiple champions and never asked for number one status. MS on the other hand, has been paired with...
As I said earlier; history will look back far more kindly on Hamilton’s racing career, from Karting up.
Poppiecock said:
Hamilton is good, but just how good is he? - Mercedes have had such a dominant position
because he's taken on other WDC's & not been too shabby?Poppiecock said:
However, I don't think we'll ever see the likes of MS again - someone who can jump into an uncompetitive car and drag it to the front through testing and development.
probably truePoppiecock said:
The rising stars these days land in competitive seats early in their careers
same is true of Micheal, he was a Mercedes driver, they paid for his seat at Jordan ...did half a season & then 'landed' in the Benetton, which at that point was the 3rd quickest car on the grid (the equivalent of landing in an RBR these days)TobyTR said:
Yep, Alonso's worst, most insecure season in F1 and he finished on equal points to Hamilton and one point behind the WDC. Awful.
Statistically, 2007 was a much better and more consistent performing year for Hamilton than 2008 - he made more mistakes and scored less points in his first title-winning year.
You really have it bad don’t you ?Statistically, 2007 was a much better and more consistent performing year for Hamilton than 2008 - he made more mistakes and scored less points in his first title-winning year.
The hate Hamilton at all costs issue ?
Carry on hating
angrymoby said:
same is true of Micheal, he was a Mercedes driver, they paid for his seat at Jordan ...did half a season & then 'landed' in the Benetton, which at that point was the 3rd quickest car on the grid (the equivalent of landing in an RBR these days)
Schumacher only raced once for Jordan at Spa before being snatched by Benetton. Not sure if Eddie has every recovered 
angrymoby said:
You've lost the plot & definitely need your head examined ...because the ONLY way you know for sure, is when they are in the SAME car.
Even then all that proves is which drivers style is suited to the combination of car, tyres and regulations in force at the time. Vettel, Schumacher and Hamilton have all had large periods of their careers when that has happened for them.Driver comparisons across eras are always pointless and even amongst team mates in the same car for those reasons.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Schumacher only raced once for Jordan at Spa before being snatched by Benetton. Not sure if Eddie has every recovered
Ahhh yeah, my bad ...maybe Eddie makes it feel like it was a lot longer? Kraken said:
Even then all that proves is which drivers style is suited to the combination of car, tyres and regulations in force at the time. Vettel, Schumacher and Hamilton have all had large periods of their careers when that has happened for them.
Driver comparisons across eras are always pointless and even amongst team mates in the same car for those reasons.
errr, isn't that one of the points that makes a great? ...their adaptability??Driver comparisons across eras are always pointless and even amongst team mates in the same car for those reasons.
TobyTR said:
So where was Lewis 2009-2013 then? He had more than one bad year. No doubt he's been in a good frame of mind since the beginning of 2017
He's had several average years with McLaren, banging into Massa etc and I'm struggling to recall a race when Lewis dragged a subpar car to a great result.Seminal performances to compare would include:
Senna @Monaco - recalcitrant Toleman
Schumacher - stuck in 5th gear
He had a subpar McLaren at the beginning of 2009 but failed to perform. Lewis has certainly been getting great results since Lauda convinced him to relocate to Mercedes.
Bo_apex said:
TobyTR said:
So where was Lewis 2009-2013 then? He had more than one bad year. No doubt he's been in a good frame of mind since the beginning of 2017
He's had several average years with McLaren, banging into Massa etc and I'm struggling to recall a race when Lewis dragged a subpar car to a great result.Seminal performances to compare would include:
Senna @Monaco - recalcitrant Toleman
Schumacher - stuck in 5th gear
He had a subpar McLaren at the beginning of 2009 but failed to perform. Lewis has certainly been getting great results since Lauda convinced him to relocate to Mercedes.
As well, it seems a few of you disagree with nigh on everyone in F1, from team managers to drivers; who say Hamilton is an all time great. He did wobble when shirt slinger was about, no doubt about that; but he's been paired with a few world champions over the years and never requested status... MS had an easy ride, comparatively, and still couldn't help but play dirty. For many MS's legacy is tainted; forgetting about Hamilton for a second.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff