Lewis Hamilton

[37chevy]

The Crack Fox said:

RemarkLima said:

Or another way... A few 1000 people making a massive change, or a few billion making a small change.

Which will have the greater overall impact?

I firmly believe the profound words of Ghandi, "be the change you want to see in the world"

F1 fan here. All those boats and planes are (mostly) transporting stuff we need. No-one needs F1. It’s just entertainment.

Mostly? Do me a favour and look around your house.....tell me what things you actually need....the list will be very short

[Bo_apex]

37chevy said:

The Crack Fox said:

RemarkLima said:

Or another way... A few 1000 people making a massive change, or a few billion making a small change.

Which will have the greater overall impact?

I firmly believe the profound words of Ghandi, "be the change you want to see in the world"

F1 fan here. All those boats and planes are (mostly) transporting stuff we need. No-one needs F1. It’s just entertainment.

Mostly? Do me a favour and look around your house.....tell me what things you actually need....the list will be very short

+1
Not to mention big heavy plastic EV's with non-environmentally friendly mined batteries.
Just the mining of required cobalt is quite horrific, including the tragic loss of human life while mining it.
Glencore will ofcourse cover it up with smooth rhetoric.

F1: way too many trucks and tyres

[37chevy]

Bo_apex said:

37chevy said:

The Crack Fox said:

RemarkLima said:

Or another way... A few 1000 people making a massive change, or a few billion making a small change.

Which will have the greater overall impact?

I firmly believe the profound words of Ghandi, "be the change you want to see in the world"

F1 fan here. All those boats and planes are (mostly) transporting stuff we need. No-one needs F1. It’s just entertainment.

Mostly? Do me a favour and look around your house.....tell me what things you actually need....the list will be very short

+1
Not to mention big heavy plastic EV's with non-environmentally friendly mined batteries.
Just the mining of required cobalt is quite horrific, including the tragic loss of human life while mining it.
Glencore will ofcourse cover it up with smooth rhetoric.

F1: way too many trucks and tyres

Life is all about needs and wants

None of us can 100% judge unless we live naked in a hut, in the middle of a forest living off bread and water

[Bo_apex]

37chevy said:

Bo_apex said:

37chevy said:

The Crack Fox said:

RemarkLima said:

Or another way... A few 1000 people making a massive change, or a few billion making a small change.

Which will have the greater overall impact?

I firmly believe the profound words of Ghandi, "be the change you want to see in the world"

F1 fan here. All those boats and planes are (mostly) transporting stuff we need. No-one needs F1. It’s just entertainment.

Mostly? Do me a favour and look around your house.....tell me what things you actually need....the list will be very short

+1
Not to mention big heavy plastic EV's with non-environmentally friendly mined batteries.
Just the mining of required cobalt is quite horrific, including the tragic loss of human life while mining it.
Glencore will ofcourse cover it up with smooth rhetoric.

F1: way too many trucks and tyres

Life is all about needs and wants

None of us can 100% judge unless we live naked in a hut, in the middle of a forest living off bread and water

I can judge that governments have been successfully lobbied / hoodwinked by industry giants such as Glencore on the ev battery argument. Batteries are neither green or efficient.
If you want virtually clean motoring a contemporary petrol engine is the answer.
Deaths of under age cobalt miners, the mining and subsequent deconstruction of ev batteries is far from green.
As the adage goes, if you want to find the truth, follow the money...

[37chevy]

Oh I agree. Anyone that thinks EV cars are environmentally friendly is in denial....how you measure an EV car from mining raw materials to the scrap heap when compared to internal combustion engines cars is the interesting bit...no point in just looking at the carbon footprint while running the car

[anonymous-user]

I'm sure you're factoring in the continued acquisition, transportation, refinement and transportation of fossil fuels over the lifetime of an ICE when comparing the environmental credentials against EVs.

Implying that somehow a few minerals and chemicals in the manufacture of EVs somehow brings them up to being as damaging as ICE is an exercise in nonsense.

[37chevy]

janesmith1950 said:

I'm sure you're factoring in the continued acquisition, transportation, refinement and transportation of fossil fuels over the lifetime of an ICE when comparing the environmental credentials against EVs.

Implying that somehow a few minerals and chemicals in the manufacture of EVs somehow brings them up to being as damaging as ICE is an exercise in nonsense.

Like I said, it needs to be analysed properly....given the mining of materials for batteries is pretty destructive, the batteries don’t last as long as an ICE so will need replacing g more often and in a lot of cases the batteries form the spine of a car, the car will need scrapping earlier than an ICE car too...

....I’m not saying one is better or worse, it would be fascinating to compare the 2 from birth to death

[Bo_apex]

janesmith1950 said:

I'm sure you're factoring in the continued acquisition, transportation, refinement and transportation of fossil fuels over the lifetime of an ICE when comparing the environmental credentials against EVs.

Implying that somehow a few minerals and chemicals in the manufacture of EVs somehow brings them up to being as damaging as ICE is an exercise in nonsense.

A few minerals ?

The mining required for disposable mobile phone and EV batteries is off the chart.

You are at liberty to carry out your own granular research ofcourse

[BigBen]

37chevy said:

and in a lot of cases the batteries form the spine of a car,

Which EVs have the batteries as part of the structure?

[anonymous-user]

Bo_apex said:

A few minerals ?

The mining required for disposable mobile phone and EV batteries is off the chart.

You are at liberty to carry out your own granular research ofcourse

You're at liberty to work out how environmentally damaging it is to produce and distribute 60 litres of unleaded petrol/diesel on average twice a month to fill a tank. FFS, it's not rocket science.

[Exige77]

Bo_apex said:

37chevy said:

The Crack Fox said:

RemarkLima said:

Or another way... A few 1000 people making a massive change, or a few billion making a small change.

Which will have the greater overall impact?

I firmly believe the profound words of Ghandi, "be the change you want to see in the world"

F1 fan here. All those boats and planes are (mostly) transporting stuff we need. No-one needs F1. It’s just entertainment.

Mostly? Do me a favour and look around your house.....tell me what things you actually need....the list will be very short

+1
Not to mention big heavy plastic EV's with non-environmentally friendly mined batteries.
Just the mining of required cobalt is quite horrific, including the tragic loss of human life while mining it.
Glencore will ofcourse cover it up with smooth rhetoric.

F1: way too many trucks and tyres

F1 trucks and tyres are a drop in the ocean compared F1 Fans travelling to watch it although the F1 fans are insignificant compared to say football fans around the world watching their team weekly.

We all need to have something to spend money on to motivate us to work and generate wealth for everybody.

People are already aware of the environment and daily use items are becoming more and more efficient and environmentally friendly.

We don’t need most of the stuff we consume but the whole world would suffer if we stopped consuming stuff.

Not sure the battery part of EVs are that environmentally friendly as stated above but they are on the way like it or not.

Great controlled drive from Lewis today. There’s a man at the top of his game.

Not really bothered about his hairstyle. It’s really not import but not too keen on the Vegan preaching.

Edited by Exige77 on Monday 28th October 01:50

[Bo_apex]

janesmith1950 said:

Bo_apex said:

A few minerals ?

The mining required for disposable mobile phone and EV batteries is off the chart.

You are at liberty to carry out your own granular research ofcourse

You're at liberty to work out how environmentally damaging it is to produce and distribute 60 litres of unleaded petrol/diesel on average twice a month to fill a tank. FFS, it's not rocket science.

Diesel is bad. VAG cooked the numbers to smokescreen.
Mining for disposable phone and EV batteries is also bad.

[Graveworm]

janesmith1950 said:

Bo_apex said:

A few minerals ?

The mining required for disposable mobile phone and EV batteries is off the chart.

You are at liberty to carry out your own granular research ofcourse

You're at liberty to work out how environmentally damaging it is to produce and distribute 60 litres of unleaded petrol/diesel on average twice a month to fill a tank. FFS, it's not rocket science.

Or to generate & distribute electricity, which is not as efficient at source as the best ICE let alone after the distribution losses. The National grid, charging facilities etc need upgrading and maintaining, which I suspect is still less damaging than the current position but it is not clear cut especially as the extra costs to the state of subsidies etc could be used to offset emissions elsewhere. Congestion costs an order of magnitude more than pollution so in order to be able to afford to tackle the environment we need to crunch all the numbers.

[swisstoni]

Oops wrong thread. Sorry.

Edited by swisstoni on Monday 28th October 10:25

[BigBen]

Graveworm said:

Or to generate & distribute electricity, which is not as efficient at source as the best ICE let alone after the distribution losses.

Can you show your working for this one?

[Graveworm]

BigBen said:

Can you show your working for this one?

What working? Most power stations are oil or coal which have a best thermal efficiency of 37 percent. The most efficient ICE (Without taking any kind of hybrid energy recovery into account) exceed 50 percent.

[mattikake]

Maybe Hamilton's radio calls to fool rivals are an act? He's been taking lessons!

http://www.justjared.com/2019/10/26/lewis-hamilton...

[andburg]

Graveworm said:

What working? Most power stations are oil or coal which have a best thermal efficiency of 37 percent. The most efficient ICE (Without taking any kind of hybrid energy recovery into account) exceed 50 percent.

This is way off topic here guys.....

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-to...

realistically ICE just hitting 40% thermal efficiency, hybrid then taking it to 41% according to that article.

The Mercedes F1 engine was cited as hitting 50% in a lab in likely perfect conditions.

Take those out of the lab and they wont hit those figures.
More and more electricity is coming from renewable energy so the mix is changing

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/data-portal/electricity-g...

Q1 2019
35% Gas (up to 60% efficient according to the article)
20% wind & solar (no fuel is burnt)

Coal and oil made up less than 4% of our energy

i'm, no expert but I dont see how the ICE can reasonably complete on efficiency.

[Teddy Lop]

glazbagun said:

Teddy Lop said:

and that is the unavoidable core of most of those who preach the environmentalism tenet isn't it - "the masses should go with less again while the few enjoy all the spoils"

That sounds more like a Conservative tenet than that of any Green I've ever known.

I daresay the people you know are probably just ordinary people doing what they believe/are told is right, rather than those who are the spokespeople and overseers of the movement.

[Graveworm]

andburg said:

This is way off topic here guys.....

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-to...

realistically ICE just hitting 40% thermal efficiency, hybrid then taking it to 41% according to that article.

The Mercedes F1 engine was cited as hitting 50% in a lab in likely perfect conditions.

Take those out of the lab and they wont hit those figures.
More and more electricity is coming from renewable energy so the mix is changing

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/data-portal/electricity-g...

Q1 2019
35% Gas (up to 60% efficient according to the article)
20% wind & solar (no fuel is burnt)

Coal and oil made up less than 4% of our energy

i'm, no expert but I dont see how the ICE can reasonably complete on efficiency.

It's global warming so our power make up is kind of irrelevant. Globally the biggest generator is coal and gas.

I said the best ICE exceeds 50 percent and it does. I said it's better than electricity generation, at source and it is. I said I still think overall EV are better but it's not so straightforward. My concern is the money spent on subsidy, tax breaks etc for EVs, if spent elsewhere, would be more beneficial.