Lewis Hamilton
Discussion
Durzel said:
It's easy to be magnanimous and all smiles when you're on the up and up. People have got short memories if they don't remember Hamilton b
hing after almost every race, and in the press, when Vettel was dominating in the RBR. You don't have to look far to find evidence of it.
I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently. They were both at their respective times frustrated with a power imbalance they felt they could nothing to overcome. Hamilton felt, as I'm sure Vettel does now, that they're being held back by their inferior machinery.
So one should remember that Hamilton hasn't always been a model of serenity and geniality. You can tell a lot a man's mettle by how he acts when things aren't going their way, and on that front I can't help but respect Vettel immensely for congratulating Hamilton and the Mercedes team even when he must be struggling to deal with the fact that he's failed to measure up for another season.
hing after almost every race, and in the press, when Vettel was dominating in the RBR. You don't have to look far to find evidence of it.I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently. They were both at their respective times frustrated with a power imbalance they felt they could nothing to overcome. Hamilton felt, as I'm sure Vettel does now, that they're being held back by their inferior machinery.
So one should remember that Hamilton hasn't always been a model of serenity and geniality. You can tell a lot a man's mettle by how he acts when things aren't going their way, and on that front I can't help but respect Vettel immensely for congratulating Hamilton and the Mercedes team even when he must be struggling to deal with the fact that he's failed to measure up for another season.
Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 5th November 18:26
some balance. Totally agree. Hamilton had to be persuaded to congratulate Nico after that race in 2016
TobyTR said:
Durzel said:
It's easy to be magnanimous and all smiles when you're on the up and up. People have got short memories if they don't remember Hamilton bhing after almost every race, and in the press, when Vettel was dominating in the RBR. You don't have to look far to find evidence of it.
I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently. They were both at their respective times frustrated with a power imbalance they felt they could nothing to overcome. Hamilton felt, as I'm sure Vettel does now, that they're being held back by their inferior machinery.
So one should remember that Hamilton hasn't always been a model of serenity and geniality. You can tell a lot a man's mettle by how he acts when things aren't going their way, and on that front I can't help but respect Vettel immensely for congratulating Hamilton and the Mercedes team even when he must be struggling to deal with the fact that he's failed to measure up for another season.
hing after almost every race, and in the press, when Vettel was dominating in the RBR. You don't have to look far to find evidence of it.I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently. They were both at their respective times frustrated with a power imbalance they felt they could nothing to overcome. Hamilton felt, as I'm sure Vettel does now, that they're being held back by their inferior machinery.
So one should remember that Hamilton hasn't always been a model of serenity and geniality. You can tell a lot a man's mettle by how he acts when things aren't going their way, and on that front I can't help but respect Vettel immensely for congratulating Hamilton and the Mercedes team even when he must be struggling to deal with the fact that he's failed to measure up for another season.
Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 5th November 18:26
some balance. Totally agree. Hamilton had to be persuaded to congratulate Nico after that race in 2016
...forgot to mention Vettels hissy fits when things weren’t going his way....in his red bull years against Webber/ ricciardo and early ferrari career
37chevy said:
Balance to a point....
...forgot to mention Vettels hissy fits when things weren’t going his way....
Like when Vettel literally drove into the side of Hamilton. ...forgot to mention Vettels hissy fits when things weren’t going his way....
Remember when Hamilton did that... oh wait; he didn’t.
I do agree though that Vettel seems comfortable being a loser; even to his teammate. A bit too comfortable perhaps.
37chevy said:
TobyTR said:
Durzel said:
It's easy to be magnanimous and all smiles when you're on the up and up. People have got short memories if they don't remember Hamilton bhing after almost every race, and in the press, when Vettel was dominating in the RBR. You don't have to look far to find evidence of it.
I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently. They were both at their respective times frustrated with a power imbalance they felt they could nothing to overcome. Hamilton felt, as I'm sure Vettel does now, that they're being held back by their inferior machinery.
So one should remember that Hamilton hasn't always been a model of serenity and geniality. You can tell a lot a man's mettle by how he acts when things aren't going their way, and on that front I can't help but respect Vettel immensely for congratulating Hamilton and the Mercedes team even when he must be struggling to deal with the fact that he's failed to measure up for another season.
hing after almost every race, and in the press, when Vettel was dominating in the RBR. You don't have to look far to find evidence of it.I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently. They were both at their respective times frustrated with a power imbalance they felt they could nothing to overcome. Hamilton felt, as I'm sure Vettel does now, that they're being held back by their inferior machinery.
So one should remember that Hamilton hasn't always been a model of serenity and geniality. You can tell a lot a man's mettle by how he acts when things aren't going their way, and on that front I can't help but respect Vettel immensely for congratulating Hamilton and the Mercedes team even when he must be struggling to deal with the fact that he's failed to measure up for another season.
Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 5th November 18:26
some balance. Totally agree. Hamilton had to be persuaded to congratulate Nico after that race in 2016
...forgot to mention Vettels hissy fits when things weren’t going his way....in his red bull years against Webber/ ricciardo and early ferrari career
"He has driven well all year," said the 28-year-old. "I've just looked at his points and he has had second, first, second, first all year. He's done the perfect job and he deserves it."
Durzel said:
It's easy to be magnanimous and all smiles when you're on the up and up. People have got short memories if they don't remember Hamilton bhing after almost every race, and in the press, when Vettel was dominating in the RBR. You don't have to look far to find evidence of it.
I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently. They were both at their respective times frustrated with a power imbalance they felt they could nothing to overcome. Hamilton felt, as I'm sure Vettel does now, that they're being held back by their inferior machinery.
So one should remember that Hamilton hasn't always been a model of serenity and geniality. You can tell a lot a man's mettle by how he acts when things aren't going their way, and on that front I can't help but respect Vettel immensely for congratulating Hamilton and the Mercedes team even when he must be struggling to deal with the fact that he's failed to measure up for another season.
He had his good moments even then:hing after almost every race, and in the press, when Vettel was dominating in the RBR. You don't have to look far to find evidence of it.I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently. They were both at their respective times frustrated with a power imbalance they felt they could nothing to overcome. Hamilton felt, as I'm sure Vettel does now, that they're being held back by their inferior machinery.
So one should remember that Hamilton hasn't always been a model of serenity and geniality. You can tell a lot a man's mettle by how he acts when things aren't going their way, and on that front I can't help but respect Vettel immensely for congratulating Hamilton and the Mercedes team even when he must be struggling to deal with the fact that he's failed to measure up for another season.
Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 5th November 18:26
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/24206375
Must agree re:seb though. He comes across as a stroppy kid in the cockpit, but out of it he's been a proper gentleman.
37chevy said:
TobyTR said:
Durzel said:
It's easy to be magnanimous and all smiles when you're on the up and up. People have got short memories if they don't remember Hamilton bhing after almost every race, and in the press, when Vettel was dominating in the RBR. You don't have to look far to find evidence of it.
I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently. They were both at their respective times frustrated with a power imbalance they felt they could nothing to overcome. Hamilton felt, as I'm sure Vettel does now, that they're being held back by their inferior machinery.
So one should remember that Hamilton hasn't always been a model of serenity and geniality. You can tell a lot a man's mettle by how he acts when things aren't going their way, and on that front I can't help but respect Vettel immensely for congratulating Hamilton and the Mercedes team even when he must be struggling to deal with the fact that he's failed to measure up for another season.
hing after almost every race, and in the press, when Vettel was dominating in the RBR. You don't have to look far to find evidence of it.I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently. They were both at their respective times frustrated with a power imbalance they felt they could nothing to overcome. Hamilton felt, as I'm sure Vettel does now, that they're being held back by their inferior machinery.
So one should remember that Hamilton hasn't always been a model of serenity and geniality. You can tell a lot a man's mettle by how he acts when things aren't going their way, and on that front I can't help but respect Vettel immensely for congratulating Hamilton and the Mercedes team even when he must be struggling to deal with the fact that he's failed to measure up for another season.
Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 5th November 18:26
some balance. Totally agree. Hamilton had to be persuaded to congratulate Nico after that race in 2016
...forgot to mention Vettels hissy fits when things weren’t going his way....in his red bull years against Webber/ ricciardo and early ferrari career
All I said that was more positive towards Vettel was that he went out of his way to congratulate Lewis and the Mercedes garage last year, and was front and centre congratulating him this year. That takes a lot when you feel like it should be you in that position.
When (if) Hamilton is ever in Vettel's current shoes again and does likewise I'll be the first to applaud him. As things stand though during the RBR era he moaned constantly, and as mentioned above had to be coerced into congratulating Rosberg, and since then he's been winning pretty comprehensively. Vettel too was all smiles and fingers when RBR was unassailable.
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
-- Martin Luther King, Jr.
glazbagun said:
He had his good moments even then:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/24206375
Must agree re:seb though. He comes across as a stroppy kid in the cockpit, but out of it he's been a proper gentleman.
Good link. That's the sort of stuff I'm talking about. Hats off to Hamilton for that. I will say that the "Vettel's dominance will bore fans" comment came shortly afterwards though.https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/24206375
Must agree re:seb though. He comes across as a stroppy kid in the cockpit, but out of it he's been a proper gentleman.
That's top of your game motor racing though. As said before I don't blame Hamilton or Vettel persay for getting frustrated at "there but for the Grace of God" beliefs. But, I have big respect for Vettel in recent years being on the losing end regularly and managing to deal with it, and in some cases (per the Mercedes congratulations) actually going out of his way to praise them.
Edited by Durzel on Wednesday 6th November 09:57
Durzel said:
37chevy said:
TobyTR said:
Durzel said:
It's easy to be magnanimous and all smiles when you're on the up and up. People have got short memories if they don't remember Hamilton bhing after almost every race, and in the press, when Vettel was dominating in the RBR. You don't have to look far to find evidence of it.
I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently. They were both at their respective times frustrated with a power imbalance they felt they could nothing to overcome. Hamilton felt, as I'm sure Vettel does now, that they're being held back by their inferior machinery.
So one should remember that Hamilton hasn't always been a model of serenity and geniality. You can tell a lot a man's mettle by how he acts when things aren't going their way, and on that front I can't help but respect Vettel immensely for congratulating Hamilton and the Mercedes team even when he must be struggling to deal with the fact that he's failed to measure up for another season.
hing after almost every race, and in the press, when Vettel was dominating in the RBR. You don't have to look far to find evidence of it.I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently. They were both at their respective times frustrated with a power imbalance they felt they could nothing to overcome. Hamilton felt, as I'm sure Vettel does now, that they're being held back by their inferior machinery.
So one should remember that Hamilton hasn't always been a model of serenity and geniality. You can tell a lot a man's mettle by how he acts when things aren't going their way, and on that front I can't help but respect Vettel immensely for congratulating Hamilton and the Mercedes team even when he must be struggling to deal with the fact that he's failed to measure up for another season.
Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 5th November 18:26
some balance. Totally agree. Hamilton had to be persuaded to congratulate Nico after that race in 2016
...forgot to mention Vettels hissy fits when things weren’t going his way....in his red bull years against Webber/ ricciardo and early ferrari career
37chevy said:
You’re in no position to judge....
....but you just did by saying you didn’t rate Hamilton, fangio, schumacher, Senna, Prost but you ‘suspect’ Mika, kimi and kobayashi are the most talented drivers...oh jeez, walk away now before you dig a bigger hole
I said "not particularly", maybe they were the best drivers and maybe they weren't, you guys are the ones who pretend that you know who all of the best drivers were. ....but you just did by saying you didn’t rate Hamilton, fangio, schumacher, Senna, Prost but you ‘suspect’ Mika, kimi and kobayashi are the most talented drivers...oh jeez, walk away now before you dig a bigger hole
37chevy said:
You’re in no position to judge....
....but you just did by saying you didn’t rate Hamilton, fangio, schumacher, Senna, Prost but you ‘suspect’ Mika, kimi and kobayashi are the most talented drivers...oh jeez, walk away now before you dig a bigger hole
Sorry but you are really missing my perceptive on this, my belief is that it is impossible to tell which drivers are/were the best. I only only named a few drivers since you explicitly asked me to. ....but you just did by saying you didn’t rate Hamilton, fangio, schumacher, Senna, Prost but you ‘suspect’ Mika, kimi and kobayashi are the most talented drivers...oh jeez, walk away now before you dig a bigger hole
DOCG said:
Sorry but you are really missing my perceptive (perspective?) on this, my belief is that it is impossible to tell which drivers are/were the best. I only only named a few drivers since you explicitly asked me to.
Well, that's really the point isn't it - you can tell who the best Formula 1 driver is in a season, judged against their peer group. That's the whole point. They will be the driver with the most points. F1 is a package, sure, but when the team & driver championships are taken by the same group of people, that's it, they are the best. When the driver wins, but the team doesn't, that tells a slightly different tale. You can also tell to a lesser degree across seasons, when driving against other champions. But, if your point is, are they the best overall driver of any car at any time ever, then, sure, there's no way of empirically measuring that; same as there's no way of knowing whether unicorns are edible or not...DOCG said:
37chevy said:
You’re in no position to judge....
....but you just did by saying you didn’t rate Hamilton, fangio, schumacher, Senna, Prost but you ‘suspect’ Mika, kimi and kobayashi are the most talented drivers...oh jeez, walk away now before you dig a bigger hole
You said not particularly...as in not much.....but you just did by saying you didn’t rate Hamilton, fangio, schumacher, Senna, Prost but you ‘suspect’ Mika, kimi and kobayashi are the most talented drivers...oh jeez, walk away now before you dig a bigger hole
I base my opinions on how good a driver is on experts and their opinions. How many have said kimi or kobayashi are the best?
I said "not particularly", maybe they were the best drivers and maybe they weren't, you guys are the ones who pretend that you know who all of the best drivers were.
DOCG said:
37chevy said:
You’re in no position to judge....
....but you just did by saying you didn’t rate Hamilton, fangio, schumacher, Senna, Prost but you ‘suspect’ Mika, kimi and kobayashi are the most talented drivers...oh jeez, walk away now before you dig a bigger hole
Sorry but you are really missing my perceptive on this, my belief is that it is impossible to tell which drivers are/were the best. I only only named a few drivers since you explicitly asked me to. ....but you just did by saying you didn’t rate Hamilton, fangio, schumacher, Senna, Prost but you ‘suspect’ Mika, kimi and kobayashi are the most talented drivers...oh jeez, walk away now before you dig a bigger hole
ks if you think the likes of kobayashi is better than drivers like fangio Senna or schumacherWhat has really impressed me more than anything this year, more so than last year or so, has been Lewis's strategic nous with tyres. He has the natural talent, the raw speed but has always had the extra capacity that was never fully utilised.
He has grown into the elderstatesman role as well as in maturity. I don't have a problem with his veganism. It seems like some Mercedes F1 personnel did judging by past racist incident(s). Plus its easy to point out hypocrisies (yes, I am one of them) and judge the purity of one's beliefs. We can put humans on a pedestal and expect/forget they are human. Even Senna was asked why he earned his money from tobacco sales.
Other than that he has been relentless on the race track as he has ever been from the moment he first raced in F1. The question is when will Lewis's downturn occur and who will usurp him. 2021?
He has grown into the elderstatesman role as well as in maturity. I don't have a problem with his veganism. It seems like some Mercedes F1 personnel did judging by past racist incident(s). Plus its easy to point out hypocrisies (yes, I am one of them) and judge the purity of one's beliefs. We can put humans on a pedestal and expect/forget they are human. Even Senna was asked why he earned his money from tobacco sales.
Other than that he has been relentless on the race track as he has ever been from the moment he first raced in F1. The question is when will Lewis's downturn occur and who will usurp him. 2021?
entropy said:
What has really impressed me more than anything this year, more so than last year or so, has been Lewis's strategic nous with tyres. He has the natural talent, the raw speed but has always had the extra capacity that was never fully utilised.
He has grown into the elderstatesman role as well as in maturity. I don't have a problem with his veganism. It seems like some Mercedes F1 personnel did judging by past racist incident(s). Plus its easy to point out hypocrisies (yes, I am one of them) and judge the purity of one's beliefs. We can put humans on a pedestal and expect/forget they are human. Even Senna was asked why he earned his money from tobacco sales.
Other than that he has been relentless on the race track as he has ever been from the moment he first raced in F1. The question is when will Lewis's downturn occur and who will usurp him. 2021?
His tyre management this season has been exceptionally good,gaining results better than he should have, Silverstone being a perfect example of forcing Bottas to go harder on his tyres whilst saving his tyres enough to make a one stop strategy workHe has grown into the elderstatesman role as well as in maturity. I don't have a problem with his veganism. It seems like some Mercedes F1 personnel did judging by past racist incident(s). Plus its easy to point out hypocrisies (yes, I am one of them) and judge the purity of one's beliefs. We can put humans on a pedestal and expect/forget they are human. Even Senna was asked why he earned his money from tobacco sales.
Other than that he has been relentless on the race track as he has ever been from the moment he first raced in F1. The question is when will Lewis's downturn occur and who will usurp him. 2021?
velocgee said:
Re: Vettel congratulating Hamilton.....
Come on guys, those two have been quite chummy for years now. No surprises there. Actually, Vettel is the only driver I have ever seen Hamilton warm to (except the time when he gushed over Leclerc....)
He seems to like Kimi too, but I'm not sure if it's reciprocated. Come on guys, those two have been quite chummy for years now. No surprises there. Actually, Vettel is the only driver I have ever seen Hamilton warm to (except the time when he gushed over Leclerc....)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v56BHSVnKK4
Big Robbo said:
entropy said:
What has really impressed me more than anything this year, more so than last year or so, has been Lewis's strategic nous with tyres. He has the natural talent, the raw speed but has always had the extra capacity that was never fully utilised.
He has grown into the elderstatesman role as well as in maturity. I don't have a problem with his veganism. It seems like some Mercedes F1 personnel did judging by past racist incident(s). Plus its easy to point out hypocrisies (yes, I am one of them) and judge the purity of one's beliefs. We can put humans on a pedestal and expect/forget they are human. Even Senna was asked why he earned his money from tobacco sales.
Other than that he has been relentless on the race track as he has ever been from the moment he first raced in F1. The question is when will Lewis's downturn occur and who will usurp him. 2021?
His tyre management this season has been exceptionally good,gaining results better than he should have, Silverstone being a perfect example of forcing Bottas to go harder on his tyres whilst saving his tyres enough to make a one stop strategy workHe has grown into the elderstatesman role as well as in maturity. I don't have a problem with his veganism. It seems like some Mercedes F1 personnel did judging by past racist incident(s). Plus its easy to point out hypocrisies (yes, I am one of them) and judge the purity of one's beliefs. We can put humans on a pedestal and expect/forget they are human. Even Senna was asked why he earned his money from tobacco sales.
Other than that he has been relentless on the race track as he has ever been from the moment he first raced in F1. The question is when will Lewis's downturn occur and who will usurp him. 2021?
Hungary too when using tyre knowledge against his rivals. It seems to be something he's maximised pretty fast when such a tactic is required.
Brundle seemed to create a misnomer (from his own a$$?) that Lewis could only drive flat out in his earlier f1 days but he used tyres management to great effect in his f3 euro series title. He'd often put in some blistering early laps, sometimes even just lap 1, when the tyres were at their most effective, then spend the rest of the race managing them in cruise mode while everyone else seemed to steadily run out of tyres executing slower lap times.
Even from an early age he seemed to know how much he could push and when.
Edited by mattikake on Thursday 7th November 00:17
mattikake said:
Indeed. Monaco - where you could see him adjust his driving style on the fly, first using up the fronts, then when they were gone switching to steering from the rear until the rears were gone. Stringing out the tyres longer than be had any right to. (Watch the race and see the wear on the fronts, then wear appear on the rears, and then the blisters on the rears as his spinning them up to turn a car with dead fronts, overheats them). Very clever and yet I suspect, completely automatic to him.
Hungary too when using tyre knowledge against his rivals. It seems to be something he's maximised pretty fast when such a tactic is required.
Brundle seemed to create a misnomer (from his own a$$?) that Lewis could only drive flat out in his earlier f1 days but he used tyres management to great effect in his f3 euro series title. He'd often put in some blistering early laps, sometimes even just lap 1, when the tyres were at their most effective, then spend the rest of the race managing them in cruise mode while everyone else seemed to steadily run out of tyres executing slower lap times.
Even from an early age he seemed to know how much he could push and when.
Strange that,I seem to remember when he joined F1 that he just seemed to go like a bat out of hell and wear his tyres out and have to do more pit stops than his team mate or rivals.The fact that he's now probably the best of the leading drivers when it comes to tyre wear shows how much he's learnt and evolved over the years.Hungary too when using tyre knowledge against his rivals. It seems to be something he's maximised pretty fast when such a tactic is required.
Brundle seemed to create a misnomer (from his own a$$?) that Lewis could only drive flat out in his earlier f1 days but he used tyres management to great effect in his f3 euro series title. He'd often put in some blistering early laps, sometimes even just lap 1, when the tyres were at their most effective, then spend the rest of the race managing them in cruise mode while everyone else seemed to steadily run out of tyres executing slower lap times.
Even from an early age he seemed to know how much he could push and when.
Edited by mattikake on Thursday 7th November 00:17
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