Lewis Hamilton

[HustleRussell]

sparta6 said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

They are quiet, very muted - like most modern small turbo engines.. There is no edge to the sound. I remember back in 2014 how dismayed everyone was when they heard the new engines for the first time.

We went to Barcelona in 2014, I still remember how deflated everyone was by the little put put noise as they went past. Properly gutting.

In the flesh they do sound like Auntie Pauline's daily driver.
F1 is supposed to be a spectacle.
F1 is failing in this respect.

When did you last hear them in the flesh? They have gotten a lot louder since 2014.

Anyway, have you listened to an Indycar recently?

[swisstoni]

PanicBuyingBogRoll said:

sparta6 said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

They are quiet, very muted - like most modern small turbo engines.. There is no edge to the sound. I remember back in 2014 how dismayed everyone was when they heard the new engines for the first time.

We went to Barcelona in 2014, I still remember how deflated everyone was by the little put put noise as they went past. Properly gutting.

In the flesh they do sound like Auntie Pauline's daily driver.
F1 is supposed to be a spectacle.
F1 is failing in this respect.

I disagree. I think they sound great. And the different manufacturers sound different. The V8 were just a high pitched noise that got tiring after a while.

At the races you can now hear so much more of what is going on. Makes for a better experience to me.

If you’d heard the V10s echoing around the streets of Monaco, raising the hairs on your arms and neck before you even get to the track, you might think otherwise.

However, on TV at least, I agree that the effect is not as noticeable.

[sparta6]

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

They are quiet, very muted - like most modern small turbo engines.. There is no edge to the sound. I remember back in 2014 how dismayed everyone was when they heard the new engines for the first time.

We went to Barcelona in 2014, I still remember how deflated everyone was by the little put put noise as they went past. Properly gutting.

In the flesh they do sound like Auntie Pauline's daily driver.
F1 is supposed to be a spectacle.
F1 is failing in this respect.

When did you last hear them in the flesh? They have gotten a lot louder since 2014.

Anyway, have you listened to an Indycar recently?

Hockenheim, Monaco and Paul Ricard last year.

The V10's were epic. Nice and light too.

[paulguitar]

HustleRussell said:

When did you last hear them in the flesh? They have gotten a lot louder since 2014.

Anyway, have you listened to an Indycar recently?

I went last year to Silverstone on Friday. They are a bit better than in 2014 but still seriously underwhelming.

As to Indycar, I remember I was at a hotel in Baltimore in 2013 and the race was going on around the city. I could hear them farting around and in my head, I was thinking 'please, please, please don't let F1 be as lame as this when it turns hybrid next year'...

Well, it was and I was gutted, and still am.

[HustleRussell]

sparta6 said:

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

They are quiet, very muted - like most modern small turbo engines.. There is no edge to the sound. I remember back in 2014 how dismayed everyone was when they heard the new engines for the first time.

We went to Barcelona in 2014, I still remember how deflated everyone was by the little put put noise as they went past. Properly gutting.

In the flesh they do sound like Auntie Pauline's daily driver.
F1 is supposed to be a spectacle.
F1 is failing in this respect.

When did you last hear them in the flesh? They have gotten a lot louder since 2014.

Anyway, have you listened to an Indycar recently?

Hockenheim, Monaco and Paul Ricard last year.

The V10's were epic. Nice and light too.

Fair enough.

The V10s were indeed epic. That was 15 years ago.

Also it is disingenuous to blame the PUs exclusively for the weight. The cars are much longer, wider and safer, not to mention the 100kg+ fuel capacity.

[longblackcoat]

swisstoni said:

PanicBuyingBogRoll said:

sparta6 said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

They are quiet, very muted - like most modern small turbo engines.. There is no edge to the sound. I remember back in 2014 how dismayed everyone was when they heard the new engines for the first time.

We went to Barcelona in 2014, I still remember how deflated everyone was by the little put put noise as they went past. Properly gutting.

In the flesh they do sound like Auntie Pauline's daily driver.
F1 is supposed to be a spectacle.
F1 is failing in this respect.

I disagree. I think they sound great. And the different manufacturers sound different. The V8 were just a high pitched noise that got tiring after a while.

At the races you can now hear so much more of what is going on. Makes for a better experience to me.

If you’d heard the V10s echoing around the streets of Monaco, raising the hairs on your arms and neck before you even get to the track, you might think otherwise.

However, on TV at least, I agree that the effect is not as noticeable.

I did hear the V10s (not at Monaco though, to be fair) and they just did my head in. Others obviously disagree, but to me more volume does not make a better race.

I massively prefer the turbo V6s in current form.

[paulguitar]

longblackcoat said:

I did hear the V10s (not at Monaco though, to be fair) and they just did my head in. Others obviously disagree, but to me more volume does not make a better race.

I massively prefer the turbo V6s in current form.

I don't think anyone has said 'more volume makes a better race'?


It is, anyway, SO much more than mere 'volume'. I think that either one's soul is stirred by a magical sounding V10 or V12, or it isn't. There seems little point trying to put the effect into words, it goes so far beyond that.

[sparta6]

paulguitar said:

I went last year to Silverstone on Friday. They are a bit better than in 2014 but still seriously underwhelming.

As to Indycar, I remember I was at a hotel in Baltimore in 2013 and the race was going on around the city. I could hear them farting around and in my head, I was thinking 'please, please, please don't let F1 be as lame as this when it turns hybrid next year'...

Well, it was and I was gutted, and still am.

I share the same disappointment.

F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle in all respects.

Cars being relevant to Auntie Pauline's daily should not really enter the equation.

[sparta6]

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

They are quiet, very muted - like most modern small turbo engines.. There is no edge to the sound. I remember back in 2014 how dismayed everyone was when they heard the new engines for the first time.

We went to Barcelona in 2014, I still remember how deflated everyone was by the little put put noise as they went past. Properly gutting.

In the flesh they do sound like Auntie Pauline's daily driver.
F1 is supposed to be a spectacle.
F1 is failing in this respect.

When did you last hear them in the flesh? They have gotten a lot louder since 2014.

Anyway, have you listened to an Indycar recently?

Hockenheim, Monaco and Paul Ricard last year.

The V10's were epic. Nice and light too.

Fair enough.

The V10s were indeed epic. That was 15 years ago.

Also it is disingenuous to blame the PUs exclusively for the weight. The cars are much longer, wider and safer, not to mention the 100kg+ fuel capacity.

Well some lap records are still held by V10's of 15 years ago.

Can you imagine how much faster the V10 cars would be today with continued evolution, bigger downforce, bigger tyres etc ?

[HustleRussell]

sparta6 said:

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

They are quiet, very muted - like most modern small turbo engines.. There is no edge to the sound. I remember back in 2014 how dismayed everyone was when they heard the new engines for the first time.

We went to Barcelona in 2014, I still remember how deflated everyone was by the little put put noise as they went past. Properly gutting.

In the flesh they do sound like Auntie Pauline's daily driver.
F1 is supposed to be a spectacle.
F1 is failing in this respect.

When did you last hear them in the flesh? They have gotten a lot louder since 2014.

Anyway, have you listened to an Indycar recently?

Hockenheim, Monaco and Paul Ricard last year.

The V10's were epic. Nice and light too.

Fair enough.

The V10s were indeed epic. That was 15 years ago.

Also it is disingenuous to blame the PUs exclusively for the weight. The cars are much longer, wider and safer, not to mention the 100kg+ fuel capacity.

Well some lap records are still held by V10's of 15 years ago.

Can you imagine how much faster the V10 cars would be today with continued evolution, bigger downforce, bigger tyres etc ?

I'm certain they would obviously be slower than the current PUs not only over a race distance but over a single lap, all other things being equal. The V6Ts are making close to four figure power outputs and with immense torque over a broad power band, recovering and re-deploying energy which would otherwise be wasted, and are slowly superseding V10 era lap records- despite the refueling ban and constant efforts within the regulations to restrict lap pace. It is disingenuous to suggest that the PUs are in any way responsible for the cars not being significantly faster than the V10 era.

However I suspect you already knew that.

[PanicBuyingBogRoll]

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

They are quiet, very muted - like most modern small turbo engines.. There is no edge to the sound. I remember back in 2014 how dismayed everyone was when they heard the new engines for the first time.

We went to Barcelona in 2014, I still remember how deflated everyone was by the little put put noise as they went past. Properly gutting.

In the flesh they do sound like Auntie Pauline's daily driver.
F1 is supposed to be a spectacle.
F1 is failing in this respect.

When did you last hear them in the flesh? They have gotten a lot louder since 2014.

Anyway, have you listened to an Indycar recently?

Hockenheim, Monaco and Paul Ricard last year.

The V10's were epic. Nice and light too.

Fair enough.

The V10s were indeed epic. That was 15 years ago.

Also it is disingenuous to blame the PUs exclusively for the weight. The cars are much longer, wider and safer, not to mention the 100kg+ fuel capacity.

Well some lap records are still held by V10's of 15 years ago.

Can you imagine how much faster the V10 cars would be today with continued evolution, bigger downforce, bigger tyres etc ?

I'm certain they would obviously be slower than the current PUs not only over a race distance but over a single lap, all other things being equal. The V6Ts are making close to four figure power outputs and with immense torque over a broad power band, recovering and re-deploying energy which would otherwise be wasted, and are slowly superseding V10 era lap records- despite the refueling ban and constant efforts within the regulations to restrict lap pace. It is disingenuous to suggest that the PUs are in any way responsible for the cars not being significantly faster than the V10 era.

However I suspect you already knew that.

Don't forget fuel flow and electrical energy deployment issues. And the fact they are limited to 3 engines a year.

Remove those restrictions and the V10s wouldn't see which way these current cars went.

[super7]

Lamborghini V12 in the Larrouse back in the 90's.......... stand 2/3rds of the way down the Hanger straight just at the point where they went up a gear!!!!!

That's noise

[sparta6]

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

They are quiet, very muted - like most modern small turbo engines.. There is no edge to the sound. I remember back in 2014 how dismayed everyone was when they heard the new engines for the first time.

We went to Barcelona in 2014, I still remember how deflated everyone was by the little put put noise as they went past. Properly gutting.

In the flesh they do sound like Auntie Pauline's daily driver.
F1 is supposed to be a spectacle.
F1 is failing in this respect.

When did you last hear them in the flesh? They have gotten a lot louder since 2014.

Anyway, have you listened to an Indycar recently?

Hockenheim, Monaco and Paul Ricard last year.

The V10's were epic. Nice and light too.

Fair enough.

The V10s were indeed epic. That was 15 years ago.

Also it is disingenuous to blame the PUs exclusively for the weight. The cars are much longer, wider and safer, not to mention the 100kg+ fuel capacity.

Well some lap records are still held by V10's of 15 years ago.

Can you imagine how much faster the V10 cars would be today with continued evolution, bigger downforce, bigger tyres etc ?

I'm certain they would obviously be slower than the current PUs not only over a race distance but over a single lap, all other things being equal. The V6Ts are making close to four figure power outputs and with immense torque over a broad power band, recovering and re-deploying energy which would otherwise be wasted, and are slowly superseding V10 era lap records- despite the refueling ban and constant efforts within the regulations to restrict lap pace. It is disingenuous to suggest that the PUs are in any way responsible for the cars not being significantly faster than the V10 era.

However I suspect you already knew that.

I'm hearing you, even better than the current farby cars.

Even though we saw an impressive 1100bhp with turbos restricted to 4 bar in '87, the V10 era provided more spectacle.

And we could hear them coming !

Agree with paulguitar regarding V12's too. A symphonic delight for ticket buyers.

[paulguitar]

super7 said:

Lamborghini V12 in the Larrouse back in the 90's.......... stand 2/3rds of the way down the Hanger straight just at the point where they went up a gear!!!!!

That's noise

[Muzzer79]

super7 said:

Lamborghini V12 in the Larrouse back in the 90's.......... stand 2/3rds of the way down the Hanger straight just at the point where they went up a gear!!!!!

That's noise

I can vividly recall queuing to get into Silverstone on race day for my first GP in 1995. It was a long wait in those days.

Anyway, what made it easier was the sound of Alesi's V12 Ferrari 412 wailing down Hangar straight during the warm up (remember those?!)

Great days

[HustleRussell]

sparta6 said:

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

They are quiet, very muted - like most modern small turbo engines.. There is no edge to the sound. I remember back in 2014 how dismayed everyone was when they heard the new engines for the first time.

We went to Barcelona in 2014, I still remember how deflated everyone was by the little put put noise as they went past. Properly gutting.

In the flesh they do sound like Auntie Pauline's daily driver.
F1 is supposed to be a spectacle.
F1 is failing in this respect.

When did you last hear them in the flesh? They have gotten a lot louder since 2014.

Anyway, have you listened to an Indycar recently?

Hockenheim, Monaco and Paul Ricard last year.

The V10's were epic. Nice and light too.

Fair enough.

The V10s were indeed epic. That was 15 years ago.

Also it is disingenuous to blame the PUs exclusively for the weight. The cars are much longer, wider and safer, not to mention the 100kg+ fuel capacity.

Well some lap records are still held by V10's of 15 years ago.

Can you imagine how much faster the V10 cars would be today with continued evolution, bigger downforce, bigger tyres etc ?

I'm certain they would obviously be slower than the current PUs not only over a race distance but over a single lap, all other things being equal. The V6Ts are making close to four figure power outputs and with immense torque over a broad power band, recovering and re-deploying energy which would otherwise be wasted, and are slowly superseding V10 era lap records- despite the refueling ban and constant efforts within the regulations to restrict lap pace. It is disingenuous to suggest that the PUs are in any way responsible for the cars not being significantly faster than the V10 era.

However I suspect you already knew that.

I'm hearing you, even better than the current farby cars.

Even though we saw an impressive 1100bhp with turbos restricted to 4 bar in '87, the V10 era provided more spectacle.

And we could hear them coming !

Agree with paulguitar regarding V12's too. A symphonic delight for ticket buyers.

I hear you too, I am 30 and a relative latecomer to F1 but I have experienced a Mercedes V10 powered Force India in the flesh as well as the newer stuff, and I am involved in club level historic motorsport so I understand the allure.

That said I am keenly interested in the continuing success of F1 as a series.

It is interesting to consider how the sport would be weathering the current crises if the sport hadn't moved to appease the major manufacturer's desire to showcase cutting edge hybrid technology?

[HustleRussell]

Also as an engineer and petrol head, 50% thermal efficiency

[TheDeuce]

HustleRussell said:

Also as an engineer and petrol head, 50% thermal efficiency

In EXCESS of 50% now. It wasn't that long ago that 50% in ICE terms was both the holy grail and an unexpected target, in road car terms at least.

Clearly there is no practical use for an engine that can only do a few hundred miles before destroying itself... But apparently the incoming 'modern' 2 stroke units being tested for rod cars can hit 50% too.

Interestingly Renault appears to be at the forefront of two stroke development right now. Or at least, they look to be best placed to get 50% efficient 2 stroke diesels out of the door ahead of anyone else. They'll probably soon enough be bested by the likes of Honda/Toyota if successful though.

[sparta6]

HustleRussell said:

Also as an engineer and petrol head, 50% thermal efficiency

As an engineering experiment it's highly impressive.

But - do ticket buyers in the grandstands really care ?
They are turning up for the spectacle.

And soundtrack is 50% of the experience.

[TheDeuce]

sparta6 said:

As an engineering experiment it's highly impressive.

But - do ticket buyers in the grandstands really care ?
They are turning up for the spectacle.

And soundtrack is 50% of the experience.

No, they don't care - if anything they miss the old sound.

But the manufacturers cared when the decision was made, and no manufacturers would be a major issue for F1 to survive, if at all possible. F1 can only exist if it's of a certain size/scale and it has to attain a minimum level of marketing relevance.