Lewis Hamilton

[angrymoby]

jsf said:

You gave two, you are too big a coward to post the third everyone knows you are implying, none are appropriate.

You are certainly living up to your username.

1. ignorant
2. deliberately insensitive
3. racist ...because i was giving you (as i do all randoms on the internet) the benefit of the doubt that you/ they aren't

so after being called out on your comprehension, you've decided to double down with an ad hominem & a bit of deflection- standard

& btw, in my experience those that usually get the most defensive over even the merest whiff of being labelled racist (which, btw you appear to have done to yourself) have the most racist views, as they have little to non members of any other race than their own within their peer group

i mean, i just laugh

Edited by angrymoby on Friday 10th July 09:44

[MarkwG]

TheDeuce said:

MarkwG said:

Indeed - I don't recall such hand wringing debates when the statues of Sadam Hussain, Muammar Gaddafi, or Enver Hoxha were pulled down? And yet, they are still remembered. Society rejecting the horrors of the past, & the symbolism of it, is part of history, not erasure of it. Nobody is pulling down statues of Florence Nightingale...& we've erected one to Mary Seacole. Personally, I believe those are the people we should be celebrating.

The statues being discussed are NOT of modern day tyrants though are they? They're generally of people who set out to achieve good things and used the resources available to them - some of which are considered socially abhorrent today, but back when they were living their life that simply wasn't the case.

Every celebrated ancient monument in the world would need to be flattened if we're going to judge those that inspired them by contemporary standards.

They didn't set out to "achieve good things" - these men weren't missionaries, taking God to the New World; they set out to take commercial advantage by abusing the system to allow them to exploit others - people, not "resources". They made fortunes on the back of it, such that their ancestors erected monuments to demonstrate the power they wielded. In spite of what some people think, many were very much against the slave trade whilst it was ongoing, yet very few statues were erected to those people - why was that? To the people who they enslaved, they were tyrants, & their ancestors see them in that light; they might wonder why others don't see that, & what it is they're trying to defend.

Why would a statue of Florence Nightingale need to be flattened, ever? No-one is suggesting no-one should ever be celebrated or revered, that no statue should ever stand. The debate is why some people were placed on a pedestal when their actions, in any setting, don't deserve it, & whether we're mature enough as a society to acknowledge that & address it.

[MarkwG]

TheDeuce said:

It's gonna take a while to tear those pyramids down. Still, needs must... Apparently.

Which pyramids?

[anonymous-user]

angrymoby said:

1. ignorant
2. deliberately insensitive
3. racist ...because i was giving you (as i do all randoms on the internet) the benefit of the doubt that they aren't

none apply.

No one has the right to not be offended, it's the cornerstone of a free society that you can be subjected to opinions or in this case objects you may personally find offensive.

A bunch of rioting cretins tearing apart what offends them is a terrifying way for society to move towards becoming acceptable behaviour.

Debate and come to a consensus weighing up all the arguments is the only viable way to move society forward. Thats becoming rarer in these times of instant gratification and microsecond attention spans.

[TheDeuce]

MarkwG said:

TheDeuce said:

It's gonna take a while to tear those pyramids down. Still, needs must... Apparently.

Which pyramids?

In terms monuments to things we no longer accept in modern society.. all of them I think.

Like I said, it's going to be an awfully big job.

[kiseca]

MarkwG said:

Why would a statue of Florence Nightingale need to be flattened, ever?

Same reason statues are worthy of being flattened now that were worthy of being erected years ago. Opinions change. Who knows what the future may bring, or even think?

Many of the things we think are acceptable today, in 30 years time, or 50, or 100, will be seen as unacceptable, possibly even barbaric. Things move on. The people that many today like to describe insult as "snowflakes" may well be setting trends for the future, and when those future societies look back and judge us on our legacy, that's the standard they'll use, not the standard we live to now.

Edited by kiseca on Thursday 9th July 11:39

[swisstoni]

Lucky I got to see Rome before it all gets taken down.

[MarkwG]

TheDeuce said:

MarkwG said:

TheDeuce said:

It's gonna take a while to tear those pyramids down. Still, needs must... Apparently.

Which pyramids?

In terms monuments to things we no longer accept in modern society.. all of them I think.

Like I said, it's going to be an awfully big job.

The question was "which pyramids"? Those in Egypt, those in South America?

[Nigel_O]

It has been almost thirty posts since Lewis Hamilton was mentioned in a thread that bears his name. If you want to discuss whether statues should be pulled down, kindly do it on a more relevant thread.

So - two costly mistakes last week at Austria (grid drop from quali and 5 seconds in the race)

Will he just accept Austria isn't one of his best tracks and take whatever points he can get, or will he come back all fired up?

Or will the options be taken away from him if the car is still fragile?

[TheDeuce]

MarkwG said:

TheDeuce said:

MarkwG said:

TheDeuce said:

It's gonna take a while to tear those pyramids down. Still, needs must... Apparently.

Which pyramids?

In terms monuments to things we no longer accept in modern society.. all of them I think.

Like I said, it's going to be an awfully big job.

The question was "which pyramids"? Those in Egypt, those in South America?

And the answer was all of them...

[M5-911]

jsf said:

The British army went into the major industrial companies such as the car industry and ran them to get them back up and running again. It's where a lot of their efficient systems came from.

Not at all, the british and French were actually very heavily involved in dismantling the german industry until 1950. Under pressure from the USA, they stopped. From then on, Germany became strong partly due to loans and huge employment of Turkish workforce. Nothing to do with GB.

[angrymoby]

jsf said:

none apply.

in your opinion ...but that's not really your call to make, it's one for your peers

jsf said:

No one has the right to not be offended, it's the cornerstone of a free society that you can be subjected to opinions or in this case objects you may personally find offensive.

interesting that you've lumped freedom to display objects in with freedom of opinions ...again see Germany- & presumably you'd be fine if a majority of Germans voted to erect of statue of Hitler, even if the minority German Jewish community found it grossly offensive?

& whilst on the subject of freedom of opinion i'm guessing you'd be fine if the laws around hate speech were repealed? & we could get back to the good old days of shouting n****** & p**** at people? & if we're allowing objects, throwing of bananas?

& the ol' "No one has the right to not be offended" trope is usually trotted by in the main by whom? ...ah yes, those who are fine & dandy with anything that they personally don't find offensive, but get bent out of shape when they themselves are (like when they think they'r being called 'racist')

jsf said:

A bunch of rioting cretins tearing apart what offends them is a terrifying way for society to move towards becoming acceptable behaviour.

Debate and come to a consensus weighing up all the arguments is the only viable way to move society forward. That's becoming rarer in these times of instant gratification and microsecond attention spans.

& sometimes, that isn't enough- history is littered with examples of 'illegal' rioting that changed policy

Edited by angrymoby on Friday 10th July 09:54

[TheDeuce]

Nigel_O said:

It has been almost thirty posts since Lewis Hamilton was mentioned in a thread that bears his name. If you want to discuss whether statues should be pulled down, kindly do it on a more relevant thread.

So - two costly mistakes last week at Austria (grid drop from quali and 5 seconds in the race)

Will he just accept Austria isn't one of his best tracks and take whatever points he can get, or will he come back all fired up?

Or will the options be taken away from him if the car is still fragile?

Fair enough.

Back to Lewis the racer, not the activist.. I don't know if I'd classify the defense against Albon as a mistake so much as a gamble. I wonder, if we watched through every single time he'd defended in a similar way throughout his career, would he mostly suffer or benefit from doing so? Likewise the grid drop, whilst annoying he still recovered from. Then there is quali, he qualified second but only 12 thousandths behind Bottas. A mild gust of wind in the opposite direction could just about have swung that result!

So I think he'll be fired up. Even with the wounded cars last week they were on for a 1-2 finish. If the cars are still fragile, then he still has the same chances of beating Bottas overall.

Obviously last week has dented his WDC points balance vs Bottas but it's very early days. Bottas won the first race last year too and took fastest lap.

[swisstoni]

M5-911 said:

jsf said:

The British army went into the major industrial companies such as the car industry and ran them to get them back up and running again. It's where a lot of their efficient systems came from.

Not at all, the british and French were actually very heavily involved in dismantling the german industry until 1950. Under pressure from the USA, they stopped. From then on, Germany became strong partly due to loans and huge employment of Turkish workforce. Nothing to do with GB.

GB helped by totally bankrupting itself fighting the Nazis. So that was a competitor hobbled for decades.

[MarkwG]

TheDeuce said:

MarkwG said:

TheDeuce said:

MarkwG said:

TheDeuce said:

It's gonna take a while to tear those pyramids down. Still, needs must... Apparently.

Which pyramids?

In terms monuments to things we no longer accept in modern society.. all of them I think.

Like I said, it's going to be an awfully big job.

The question was "which pyramids"? Those in Egypt, those in South America?

And the answer was all of them...

Why would "all of them" be unacceptable in modern society?

[angrymoby]

Nigel_O said:

It has been almost thirty posts since Lewis Hamilton was mentioned in a thread that bears his name. If you want to discuss whether statues should be pulled down, kindly do it on a more relevant thread.

So - two costly mistakes last week at Austria (grid drop from quali and 5 seconds in the race)

Will he just accept Austria isn't one of his best tracks and take whatever points he can get, or will he come back all fired up?

Or will the options be taken away from him if the car is still fragile?

noted & ill bow out of the 'statue' debate at this point

I reckon he'll be in maximise points mode rather than going all out, he knows Austria is not his strongest track ...but will be looking at the rest of the calendar knowing he has comprehensively beaten Bottas on all the announced tracks (& most of the pending ones)

I suspect he'll get a better banker lap in Q3 though (or elect to go first for the final run)

[MarkwG]

Nigel_O said:

It has been almost thirty posts since Lewis Hamilton was mentioned in a thread that bears his name. If you want to discuss whether statues should be pulled down, kindly do it on a more relevant thread.

So - two costly mistakes last week at Austria (grid drop from quali and 5 seconds in the race)

Will he just accept Austria isn't one of his best tracks and take whatever points he can get, or will he come back all fired up?

Or will the options be taken away from him if the car is still fragile?

Threads go where they go: Hamilton has clear opinions on many things, that's sparked debate along similar lines, therefore it's part of the discussion about him.
I imagine he already considers it in the past, & it will have little bearing on the weekend, if any.

[anonymous-user]

M5-911 said:

Not at all, the british and French were actually very heavily involved in dismantling the german industry until 1950. Under pressure from the USA, they stopped. From then on, Germany became strong partly due to loans and huge employment of Turkish workforce. Nothing to do with GB.

Without the British Army VW wouldn't have survived.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&amp...

[mikal83]

TheDeuce said:

It's gonna take a while to tear those pyramids down. Still, needs must... Apparently.

Again.......why oh fkin why does some asshole bring up the pyramids----slavery.

[TheDeuce]

angrymoby said:

noted & ill bow out of the 'statue' debate at this point

I reckon he'll be in maximise points mode rather than going all out, he knows Austria is not his strongest track ...but will be looking at the rest of the calendar knowing he has comprehensively beaten Bottas on all the announced tracks (& most of the pending ones)

I suspect he'll get a better banker lap in Q3 though (or elect to go first for the final run)

Yea, if he qualifies P1 then I'd expect him to win the race unless he has car problems and Bottas does not. If he doesn't win the race.. as you say, history suggests he won't struggle to regain the lead over the rest of the European stint.