Lewis Hamilton
Discussion
C70R said:
I'm sad for the amount of hate and negativity that some people seem to have, and the fact that they constantly search for the bad in everything.
I feel like internet forums tend to have a disproportionately high number of these people - or that they give them a mouthpiece they wouldn't otherwise have.
This thread could have been about one of the greatest sportsmen in a generation. Instead, a bunch of people without the first idea what it's like to walk a mile in his shoes, have turned it into a personal vendetta against the man.
It's sad. I don't want to be dragged down to your level. So I'm going to leave you to it.
This kind of post highlights just how out of touch you are and how you don't understand the problems that could arise by using divisive language and symbolism, even if in a good cause.I feel like internet forums tend to have a disproportionately high number of these people - or that they give them a mouthpiece they wouldn't otherwise have.
This thread could have been about one of the greatest sportsmen in a generation. Instead, a bunch of people without the first idea what it's like to walk a mile in his shoes, have turned it into a personal vendetta against the man.
It's sad. I don't want to be dragged down to your level. So I'm going to leave you to it.
People who have a difference of opinion to you on how best to move things forward are not the enemy, if you don't learn that you will go nowhere but backwards.
sparta6 said:
Unfortunately the Black Panthers and now BLM actually make it more divisive.
BLM is now viewed as an extension of the BP's.
Black panters and BLM have highlighted something which doesn't go away... Racism. They are movement which one way or another create changes in society for better in most cases. Sadly people will pick on the negative side of it, generally those people have their own political agenda to try to dismiss such movements. BLM is now viewed as an extension of the BP's.
M5-911 said:
Black panters and BLM have highlighted something which doesn't go away... Racism. They are movement which one way or another create changes in society for better in most cases. Sadly people will pick on the negative side of it, generally those people have their own political agenda to try to dismiss such movements.
Movements like the Nation of Islam, which Ali supported for a while, preached racial segregation in the USA. This was Ali's opinion on racial integration in 1971. https://youtu.be/Y7wJG5JkQ4AIt's not uncommon for great sports stars to get caught up in the wrong crowd whilst trying to do the right thing. They usually realise eventually and in Ali's case went on to great things.
M5-911 said:
Black panters and BLM have highlighted something which doesn't go away... Racism. They are movement which one way or another create changes in society for better in most cases. Sadly people will pick on the negative side of it, generally those people have their own political agenda to try to dismiss such movements.
Regardless of the negative aspects some of us see... They have highlighted something worth highlighting and it's the leading media story (excluding the daily covid updates of course). That's great.But ignoring or not ignoring the other aspects of their agenda won't change the fact it is now an issue we're all conscious of. Those organisations have their own goals, and in their path toward those goals, they have highlighted something we can all now spend more time actively thinking about. That doesn't mean we have to admire their goals or thank them - or defend them.
The 'movement' is not a BLM movement. They did a lot to trigger it no doubt, but it is not theirs. The movement is of the people. It's fully valid to dismiss BLM and still support the current movement in my view.
Exige77 said:
I think Lewis is a very decent chap, fair and reasonable and wears his heart on his sleeve but he’s aligning himself with BLM which is a Marxist organisation as was their predecessor The Black Panthers.
We know what happened to the Black Panthers.
Symbolism is very strong
There seems to be very little that you do know or understand.We know what happened to the Black Panthers.
Symbolism is very strong
There is a huge difference between Socialism and Marxism. The words are not synonymous.
The Black Panther Party was at its foundation a revolutionary socialist organisation it was in part a response to continued oppression, segregation and discrimination in 60s USA and frustration at the (seeming) lack of progress via more peaceful methods. So it pretty much was always a controversial organisation they advocated armed patrols to protect black people from the police. But they also did a lot of good work, breakfast clubs for poor kids and medical programs in the communities
The "Black Power Salute", the clenched fist raised, is made with the palm forward (not the knuckles) and is a universal symbol for strength and togetherness, it is defiant not aggressive or violent. It is also associated with the fight against fascism as the salute of the volunteers fighting in the Spanish Civil War "¡no pasarán!"
"Black Lives Matter" it is a simple statement that seems to have a ghost word that only some white people see.
As for it becoming "Marxist" I can see no evidence of that beyond a few political statements by people CLAIMING to represent the movement. As the movement is more societal or "grass-roots" than political what you are seeing, I believe, are attempts to control or otherwise subvert the message of the movement which is a very simple one. (Like the "All Lives Matter" memes) into a political one. Here the comparison with the Black Panthers is perhaps more apposite as the Panthers were infiltrated by the FBI who instigated a program to destabilise the organisation through efforts to incriminate and assassinate party members, discredit and criminalize the Party. Dirty tricks is perhaps to polite a way to describe what was done. Is it happening again? There's a lot of polarisation don't be taken in, support what is right.
Black Lives Matter, ¡No pasarán!
“There seems to be very little that you do know or understand”
Here is the problem stifling debate.
If someone doesn’t agree they know very little or don't understand or worse.
To solve some of these “BIG” problems the engagement of the silent majority is needed and not just a few activists or intellectuals.
This kind of imagery Is seen as aggressive by many and counter productive to solving the problem.
Here is the problem stifling debate.
If someone doesn’t agree they know very little or don't understand or worse.
To solve some of these “BIG” problems the engagement of the silent majority is needed and not just a few activists or intellectuals.
This kind of imagery Is seen as aggressive by many and counter productive to solving the problem.
Edited by Exige77 on Wednesday 15th July 09:19
Exige77 said:
“There seems to be very little that you do know or understand”
Here is the problem stifling debate.
If someone doesn’t agree they know very little or don't understand or worse.
the problem isn't people stifling debate, it's people not listening or worse, not willing to listen (not that i'd lump you or most of the nay sayers in this thread into those categories) imoHere is the problem stifling debate.
If someone doesn’t agree they know very little or don't understand or worse.
angrymoby said:
the problem isn't people stifling debate, it's people not listening or worse, not willing to listen (not that i'd lump you or most of the nay sayers in this thread into those categories) imo
your username seems very apt. black lives matter (lower case to de-politicise). that movement received near universal approval.
then the politicisation and lecturing started (often by angry white people) and people started to turn off. this has been said repeatedly above. but you're not listening.
Hungary this weekend. i'm expecting a stellar performance from our man.
CABC said:
angrymoby said:
the problem isn't people stifling debate, it's people not listening or worse, not willing to listen (not that i'd lump you or most of the nay sayers in this thread into those categories) imo
your username seems very apt. black lives matter (lower case to de-politicise). that movement received near universal approval.
then the politicisation and lecturing started (often by angry white people) and people started to turn off. this has been said repeatedly above. but you're not listening.
Hungary this weekend. i'm expecting a stellar performance from our man.
Lewis is in the form of his life.
A joy to watch.
CABC said:
your username seems very apt.
black lives matter (lower case to de-politicise). that movement received near universal approval.
then the politicisation and lecturing started (often by angry white people) and people started to turn off. this has been said repeatedly above. but you're not listening.
i refer back to the 'black mercedes' thread:black lives matter (lower case to de-politicise). that movement received near universal approval.
then the politicisation and lecturing started (often by angry white people) and people started to turn off. this has been said repeatedly above. but you're not listening.
"white folk trying to stop other white folk supporting non white folk, looks as ridiculous as it sounds"
so as above, try listening to black people (as those are the only opinions that matter at this point) ...like Lewis's
(& so as not to derail any further ill refer to the username/ ad hominem at a later date)
CABC said:
Hungary this weekend. i'm expecting a stellar performance from our man.
amen to that ...comrade 
Edited by angrymoby on Wednesday 15th July 10:04
Exige77 said:
Lewis is in the form of his life.
A joy to watch.
Exige77 said:
“There seems to be very little that you do know or understand”
Here is the problem stifling debate.
If someone doesn’t agree they know very little or don't understand or worse.
To solve some of these “BIG” problems the engagement of the silent majority is needed and not just a few activists or intellectuals.
This kind of imagery Is seen as aggressive by many and counter productive to solving the problem.
You were presenting things as "fact" that were incorrect. That is not debate. I am not trying to debate with you (I am supposed to be working) I read your post and I corrected your "facts"Here is the problem stifling debate.
If someone doesn’t agree they know very little or don't understand or worse.
To solve some of these “BIG” problems the engagement of the silent majority is needed and not just a few activists or intellectuals.
This kind of imagery Is seen as aggressive by many and counter productive to solving the problem.
Edited by Exige77 on Wednesday 15th July 09:19
1. You didn't know that Marxism is not the same as Socialism (to be fair this a myth deliberately propagated in many sections of the media and not challenged enough IMO)
2. You didn't know what the symbolism of the Black Power Salute was or the symbolism of the raised fist salute in a wider context. So if you see the raised fist as "aggressive" you are wrong it is that simple. Areas of ignorance are not open to debate but they can be corrected
3. You didn't know what happened to the Black Panthers, what they did, why they did it or their part in the struggle against oppression and racism.
These aren't up for "debate" these are facts that you can research for yourself.
Now if you want to debate about the politicisation of BLM that's a different matter it is debatable. The movement, particularly in the USA, most definitely IS political in that they are trying to get black people to turn out and vote. When they do they will be subject to many difficulties just to cast their vote. Voter suppression, particularly in the Southern states, remains a problem to this day.
Racism is based on fear, knowledge and truth will defeat racism if you let it.
Rumblestripe said:
Exige77 said:
“There seems to be very little that you do know or understand”
Here is the problem stifling debate.
If someone doesn’t agree they know very little or don't understand or worse.
To solve some of these “BIG” problems the engagement of the silent majority is needed and not just a few activists or intellectuals.
This kind of imagery Is seen as aggressive by many and counter productive to solving the problem.
You were presenting things as "fact" that were incorrect. That is not debate. I am not trying to debate with you (I am supposed to be working) I read your post and I corrected your "facts"Here is the problem stifling debate.
If someone doesn’t agree they know very little or don't understand or worse.
To solve some of these “BIG” problems the engagement of the silent majority is needed and not just a few activists or intellectuals.
This kind of imagery Is seen as aggressive by many and counter productive to solving the problem.
Edited by Exige77 on Wednesday 15th July 09:19
1. You didn't know that Marxism is not the same as Socialism (to be fair this a myth deliberately propagated in many sections of the media and not challenged enough IMO)
2. You didn't know what the symbolism of the Black Power Salute was or the symbolism of the raised fist salute in a wider context. So if you see the raised fist as "aggressive" you are wrong it is that simple. Areas of ignorance are not open to debate but they can be corrected
3. You didn't know what happened to the Black Panthers, what they did, why they did it or their part in the struggle against oppression and racism.
These aren't up for "debate" these are facts that you can research for yourself.
Now if you want to debate about the politicisation of BLM that's a different matter it is debatable. The movement, particularly in the USA, most definitely IS political in that they are trying to get black people to turn out and vote. When they do they will be subject to many difficulties just to cast their vote. Voter suppression, particularly in the Southern states, remains a problem to this day.
Racism is based on fear, knowledge and truth will defeat racism if you let it.
In the real world, it’s not the “reality“ that matters but the “perception“. The perception of the normal majority of people who pay the majority of taxes and cast the majority of votes and are in the the position of potentially driving change.
This majority form opinions without deep diving into the historical or intellectual reality.
Symbolism is what the casual observer sees and digests in a few seconds. An opinion is formed, either positive or negative.
You can tell all the misinformed people they are wrong if you like. Good luck with that.
How it’s meant to appear and how it actually appears are not the same thing.
Rumblestripe said:
You were presenting things as "fact" that were incorrect. That is not debate. I am not trying to debate with you (I am supposed to be working) I read your post and I corrected your "facts"
1. You didn't know that Marxism is not the same as Socialism (to be fair this a myth deliberately propagated in many sections of the media and not challenged enough IMO)
2. You didn't know what the symbolism of the Black Power Salute was or the symbolism of the raised fist salute in a wider context. So if you see the raised fist as "aggressive" you are wrong it is that simple. Areas of ignorance are not open to debate but they can be corrected
3. You didn't know what happened to the Black Panthers, what they did, why they did it or their part in the struggle against oppression and racism.
These aren't up for "debate" these are facts that you can research for yourself.
Now if you want to debate about the politicisation of BLM that's a different matter it is debatable. The movement, particularly in the USA, most definitely IS political in that they are trying to get black people to turn out and vote. When they do they will be subject to many difficulties just to cast their vote. Voter suppression, particularly in the Southern states, remains a problem to this day.
Racism is based on fear, knowledge and truth will defeat racism if you let it.
Thank you for your post. 1. You didn't know that Marxism is not the same as Socialism (to be fair this a myth deliberately propagated in many sections of the media and not challenged enough IMO)
2. You didn't know what the symbolism of the Black Power Salute was or the symbolism of the raised fist salute in a wider context. So if you see the raised fist as "aggressive" you are wrong it is that simple. Areas of ignorance are not open to debate but they can be corrected
3. You didn't know what happened to the Black Panthers, what they did, why they did it or their part in the struggle against oppression and racism.
These aren't up for "debate" these are facts that you can research for yourself.
Now if you want to debate about the politicisation of BLM that's a different matter it is debatable. The movement, particularly in the USA, most definitely IS political in that they are trying to get black people to turn out and vote. When they do they will be subject to many difficulties just to cast their vote. Voter suppression, particularly in the Southern states, remains a problem to this day.
Racism is based on fear, knowledge and truth will defeat racism if you let it.
My wife has passed one of her masters in these particulars subjects many years ago and she has been affected by the higlighted current events around the world all her life sadly due to her skin color.
Regarding Marxism and socialism, you are spot on again. Thanks
We are not meant to all agree on how to sovles the problem about racism around the world but the main things to me is that we are having a good debate about it.
Exige77 said:
You can tell all the misinformed people they are wrong if you like. Good luck with that.
Or I could do what you did and repeat fallacies. I'm not trying to correct "all the misinformed people", I'm correcting you. All that I can hope to achieve is that you don't repeat these fallacies in the future. If no-one challenges misinformation it becomes a de facto "truth".Jospeh Goebbels said:
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
I do agree with you about the importance of perception.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff