Honda - another disaster ?

[Car-Matt]

Word on the street is that not only are Honda behind the curve development wise and the relationship with McLaren was fractious, one of their main issues is that of Quality Control, apparently it was always thus with Honda and still is.

[thegreenhell]

MissChief said:

thegreenhell said:

Haven't McLaren also said that they aren't supplying a gearbox, so that's something else new for STR-Honda to figure out.

I'm almost positive I read that part of the Toro Rosso/Renault/Honda/McLaren deal was TR also being supplied gearboxes by McL?

I had to go back and look it up in case my memory was playing tricks, but here is says "It is understood McLaren has not been asked to supply Toro Rosso with a gearbox as part of the deal."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro-rosso-rena...

So it could be as simple as STR are confident that they can design or adapt an existing gearbox for the new engine, rather than McLaren refusing.

[aeropilot]

Car-Matt said:

one of their main issues is that of Quality Control, apparently it was always thus with Honda and still is.

Isn't this because Honda have always treated their F1 programmes (and Moto GP) as we'll do it the Honda way, not the F1 way or established dedicated specific motorsport way that everyone else adopts....?

[anonymous-user]

rubystone said:

MissChief said:

I'm almost positive I read that part of the Toro Rosso/Renault/Honda/McLaren deal was TR also being supplied gearboxes by McL?

thst was certainly the case in the Sauber deal, but I'm not so sure it forms part of the STR deal

McLaren are definitely not supplying TR with the gearbox.

[Car-Matt]

aeropilot said:

Car-Matt said:

one of their main issues is that of Quality Control, apparently it was always thus with Honda and still is.

Isn't this because Honda have always treated their F1 programmes (and Moto GP) as we'll do it the Honda way, not the F1 way or established dedicated specific motorsport way that everyone else adopts....?

I think so, and they use their own supply chain partners rather than the established F1 suppliers

[turbomoped]

you get the impression they are going to just do the minimum till the end of the deal no matter what spin fans and journos put on it.

[HustleRussell]

McLaren Honda project failed, Boullier is still bad mouthing Honda now, where is Honda's incentive to improve its 2017 effort? I hope for their sake they are getting their roots deep into STR and concentrating wholly on producing a less dismal effort for them in 2018.

[Smitters]

Car-Matt said:

aeropilot said:

Car-Matt said:

one of their main issues is that of Quality Control, apparently it was always thus with Honda and still is.

Isn't this because Honda have always treated their F1 programmes (and Moto GP) as we'll do it the Honda way, not the F1 way or established dedicated specific motorsport way that everyone else adopts....?

I think so, and they use their own supply chain partners rather than the established F1 suppliers

It's a bit of a double-edged sword - if you go with the flow, there's no innovation, but, and it's a big but, pig-headedly refusing to see that you're in the wrong isn't an intelligent approach. The corporate term is agile I think. Try, test, fail, move on, try, test, succeed, improve, succeed, improve, fail, roll back, try, succeed and so on. Iterative and intelligent, Darwinian within industry.

Who cares if caveman Ug-san lives in a massive cave with a massive fire when human Smitters lives in a house and has central heating? Not me, smuggy smug smug.

[Mr Pointy]

Car-Matt said:

aeropilot said:

Car-Matt said:

one of their main issues is that of Quality Control, apparently it was always thus with Honda and still is.

Isn't this because Honda have always treated their F1 programmes (and Moto GP) as we'll do it the Honda way, not the F1 way or established dedicated specific motorsport way that everyone else adopts....?

I think so, and they use their own supply chain partners rather than the established F1 suppliers

Honda even admit the QC issue - see the last paragraph:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/honda-upgrade-s...

[Frimley111R]

turbomoped said:

you get the impression they are going to just do the minimum till the end of the deal no matter what spin fans and journos put on it.

Hard to blame them really, its all over with McLaren.

[jammy-git]

Still, today's result bodes well for them next season (McLaren and Renault, not Honda).

[Car-Matt]

Yeah, not sure how they managed 7th on a power circuit that demands high fuel consumption?

No real mention of it by the tv coverage?!

[cuprabob]

Car-Matt said:

Yeah, not sure how they managed 7th on a power circuit that demands high fuel consumption?

No real mention of it by the tv coverage?!

...and not to mention the first time the driver had raced at the circuit and the fact his drinks bottle wasn't working correctly.

[FourWheelDrift]

Still slow on the speed trap though - https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-one-world-c...

Also shows what a moving chicane the 2016 Ferrari powered Saubers were, they were sitting ducks.

[Car-Matt]

FourWheelDrift said:

Still slow on the speed trap though - https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-one-world-c...

Also shows what a moving chicane the 2016 Ferrari powered Saubers were, they were sitting ducks.

4kmph per hour slower than Lewis Hamilton?

I think that’s outstanding progress.....how has this not been covered in the press?

[CanAm]

Alonso was well up at one stage. Was that on merit or because of pit stops by those in front? After his pit stop he dropped right down again.

[CraigyMc]

CanAm said:

Alonso was well up at one stage. Was that on merit or because of pit stops by those in front? After his pit stop he dropped right down again.

It was on merit. Had he pitted a few laps earlier, he'd have probably finished in the points - the only reason why he didn't get a point was the traffic - he had the pace to be ahead of them.

Track position and he'd have stayed ahead.

[thegreenhell]

Car-Matt said:

FourWheelDrift said:

Still slow on the speed trap though - https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-one-world-c...

Also shows what a moving chicane the 2016 Ferrari powered Saubers were, they were sitting ducks.

4kmph per hour slower than Lewis Hamilton?

I think that’s outstanding progress.....how has this not been covered in the press?

Hamilton's car issues and engine derates yesterday have been well covered. The McLaren-Hondas were 16kph+ slower than the Ferrari yesterday, which is a more accurate measure of their straight-line speed.

[KevinCamaroSS]

I was surprised that Alonso's car seemed slower than Vandoorne's car despite being the one with the upgrades....

[Car-Matt]

thegreenhell said:

Car-Matt said:

FourWheelDrift said:

Still slow on the speed trap though - https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-one-world-c...

Also shows what a moving chicane the 2016 Ferrari powered Saubers were, they were sitting ducks.

4kmph per hour slower than Lewis Hamilton?

I think that’s outstanding progress.....how has this not been covered in the press?

Hamilton's car issues and engine derates yesterday have been well covered. The McLaren-Hondas were 16kph+ slower than the Ferrari yesterday, which is a more accurate measure of their straight-line speed.

Faster than Bottas too, and if i was Merc i'd have wanted Bottas right up the front, risk to engines or not....so i dont buy it. I think maybe Merc chased the wrong set up this weekend?

I think 16kph against what is the most powerful of the 2017 engines is a massive step anyway compared to where they have come from.....