Honda - another disaster ?
Discussion
He won't go back to Ferrari, they don't need him and I don't think they would want him anyway, if Vettel left it would be a swap with Hamilton at Mercedes I think both of their contracts are up at the end of this year, Alonso won't be partnered with either Vettel or Hamilton there is no need for any team to have either of those pairings.
The only option for Alonso will be to remain at McLaren or go to Renault.
The only option for Alonso will be to remain at McLaren or go to Renault.
Will be keen to look at some telemetry from this weekend to see if their shift points have improved/changed. From McLaren's website Hasegawa mentions a small (non-token) upgrade that's working well, and I saw a very healthy increase in race pace relative to the front runners in the long runs from yesterday. Even if they've got the vibrations under control, I imagine they'll only be able to fully solve it for the Canada update on the ICE. Power sensitivity is still high at this circuit (ERS deployment less so compared to somewhere like China, I guess), so it will be interesting.
Thundersports said:
Ferrari next year. Vettel is moving on. The main question is who will be the other Ferrari driver.
That's big news. Where did you come by it and where is he going? I think Vettel manages himself now doesn't he? That means it won't have been leaked by his management team!
F1 News, Reports and Results / McLaren and Honda heading to a divorce!
McLaren and Honda heading to a divorce!
http://en.f1i.com/news/267964-mclaren-honda-headin...
C&P;
"McLaren and Honda are now on the verge of an inevitable F1 divorce, claims Germany's Auto Bild as the Anglo-Japanese team's nightmare collaboration continued in Spain with a first-lap practice failure for Fernando Alonso.
After that disastrous session, McLaren owner Mansour Ojjeh and boss Zak Brown reportedly met with Mercedes chief Toto Wolff in the Mercedes motor home.
Reportedly, they discussed a Mercedes engine deal for 2018.
"Yes, we met," Wolff confirmed, but did not elaborate.
However, Auto Bild said a plan is being devised to save face for struggling Honda, who will reportedly announce a grand plan to work exclusively with Sauber in 2018 and beyond.
But the report said legal trouble could actually follow the split, as McLaren is bound to a long-term contract. And if Honda pursues a claim, McLaren might respond by claiming damages for loss of reputation, correspondent Ralf Bach said.
As for Sauber's new Honda deal, one rumour is that the Japanese manufacturer could seek to finally improve in F1 by getting assistance from field leader Mercedes and the independent engine specialist Avl.
"We are not doing anything for Honda. That is the current status quo," said Wolff in Barcelona.
"So unless that situation changes, I don't want to contribute to rumours out there that I think are damaging for Honda. We'll see what happens."
McLaren and Honda heading to a divorce!
http://en.f1i.com/news/267964-mclaren-honda-headin...
C&P;
"McLaren and Honda are now on the verge of an inevitable F1 divorce, claims Germany's Auto Bild as the Anglo-Japanese team's nightmare collaboration continued in Spain with a first-lap practice failure for Fernando Alonso.
After that disastrous session, McLaren owner Mansour Ojjeh and boss Zak Brown reportedly met with Mercedes chief Toto Wolff in the Mercedes motor home.
Reportedly, they discussed a Mercedes engine deal for 2018.
"Yes, we met," Wolff confirmed, but did not elaborate.
However, Auto Bild said a plan is being devised to save face for struggling Honda, who will reportedly announce a grand plan to work exclusively with Sauber in 2018 and beyond.
But the report said legal trouble could actually follow the split, as McLaren is bound to a long-term contract. And if Honda pursues a claim, McLaren might respond by claiming damages for loss of reputation, correspondent Ralf Bach said.
As for Sauber's new Honda deal, one rumour is that the Japanese manufacturer could seek to finally improve in F1 by getting assistance from field leader Mercedes and the independent engine specialist Avl.
"We are not doing anything for Honda. That is the current status quo," said Wolff in Barcelona.
"So unless that situation changes, I don't want to contribute to rumours out there that I think are damaging for Honda. We'll see what happens."
After two painful years why would Vettel move on now that it appears Ferrari are coming good? It makes no sense other than a negotiating ploy. I also do not see Red Bull letting any of their drivers go (they have even hinted at Kvyat getting another year) unless they have performance clauses in their contracts or Ferrari coughs up huge amounts in buy out fees.
I also find it hard to see Alonso being welcome at Ferrari or Mercedes, so I think it is quite likely the big team line ups will remain largely the same.
I also find it hard to see Alonso being welcome at Ferrari or Mercedes, so I think it is quite likely the big team line ups will remain largely the same.
VolvoT5 said:
After two painful years why would Vettel move on now that it appears Ferrari are coming good? It makes no sense other than a negotiating ploy. I also do not see Red Bull letting any of their drivers go (they have even hinted at Kvyat getting another year) unless they have performance clauses in their contracts or Ferrari coughs up huge amounts in buy out fees.
I also find it hard to see Alonso being welcome at Ferrari or Mercedes, so I think it is quite likely the big team line ups will remain largely the same.
Precisely (re: vettel) he's kept his head and done a good job and with the fez looking racy I cant see either party wanting to split - bar perhaps a merc offer but even that might not tempt vettel against the allure of being a champ for the reds.I also find it hard to see Alonso being welcome at Ferrari or Mercedes, so I think it is quite likely the big team line ups will remain largely the same.
I think radio freddie, funny as it is for us, is not what fez are looking for...
VolvoT5 said:
After two painful years why would Vettel move on now that it appears Ferrari are coming good? It makes no sense other than a negotiating ploy. I also do not see Red Bull letting any of their drivers go (they have even hinted at Kvyat getting another year) unless they have performance clauses in their contracts or Ferrari coughs up huge amounts in buy out fees.
I also find it hard to see Alonso being welcome at Ferrari or Mercedes, so I think it is quite likely the big team line ups will remain largely the same.
All true I believe. I also find it hard to see Alonso being welcome at Ferrari or Mercedes, so I think it is quite likely the big team line ups will remain largely the same.
Could only see Renault as an option for alonso, but that would be a vast improvement on current mclaren form.
Thundersports said:
Vettel was snapped having a meeting with Christian Horner in Sochi Red Bull return? Did anyone ever see Alonso back at Mclaren?
Vettel is always having chats with Christian, hardly surprising based on the time they worked together.Alonso backed himself into a corner and had few options when he fell out with Ferrari, Vettel is smarter than that.
Thundersports said:
Vettel was snapped having a meeting with Christian Horner in Sochi Red Bull return? Did anyone ever see Alonso back at Mclaren?
He was just trying to get the latest insider information on the on/off Spice Girls reunion from Mr Ginger Spice, so he can book his tickets early.Looking at the video of the engine letting go (admitdly with no sound) the rear tyres lock, presumably the engine is FUBAR as one assumes the gearbox is ok?
I've since read lack of oil pressure, and a hole in the engine etc? .. as fluid can be seen pissing out as they lift it up..
Anyway, my point is can someone tell me why this would cause the lock up seen, I would have thought it would be destroyed but can't get my head around why it locks up.. if that's the case..?
I've since read lack of oil pressure, and a hole in the engine etc? .. as fluid can be seen pissing out as they lift it up..
Anyway, my point is can someone tell me why this would cause the lock up seen, I would have thought it would be destroyed but can't get my head around why it locks up.. if that's the case..?
tommobot said:
Looking at the video of the engine letting go (admitdly with no sound) the rear tyres lock, presumably the engine is FUBAR as one assumes the gearbox is ok?
I've since read lack of oil pressure, and a hole in the engine etc? .. as fluid can be seen pissing out as they lift it up..
Anyway, my point is can someone tell me why this would cause the lock up seen, I would have thought it would be destroyed but can't get my head around why it locks up.. if that's the case..?
I was running a car at Spa a few years ago in the six hours race.I've since read lack of oil pressure, and a hole in the engine etc? .. as fluid can be seen pissing out as they lift it up..
Anyway, my point is can someone tell me why this would cause the lock up seen, I would have thought it would be destroyed but can't get my head around why it locks up.. if that's the case..?
The driver pulled over and stopped the car just after the pits and walked back, telling me he found it difficult to shift gear then it locked up.
I went to the car expecting the gearbox to have failed, what had happened is the bottom of the engine ( a V8) had fallen out, the whole crank and main bearing assembly had departed from the rest of the engine block. The crank is connected to the input shaft of the gearbox via the clutch, that too was dragged down with the crank locking up the transmission.
I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened with this engine,where the engine has failed to such a degree its stopped the clutch and gearbox input shaft from being disconnected, which would lock the rear wheels up. The Neutral system they have on the car wont then function if the dog gears are loaded up hard against the dogs, which wont allow the actuator to pull them apart, which is why they had to crane the car.
swisstoni said:
Lord knows I'm no engineer, but bloody hell. If the engine is literally falling to pieces inside 1 lap, how far are they from having a decent power unit?
That particular engine had done a lot of running previously.The failure tends to back up the theory that their major issue is vibration and harmonics related. That's the problem with the V8 I was running, they always fail eventually due to vibration fatigue, this one let go in a rather spectacular way though with the bottom end structure cracking to such an extent the whole lot failed at once and fell out in one big mass of rotating metal.
Funny thing is, until it literally split in two, it was going great guns and producing good power, leading its class by over a lap. We had dropped the shift point by 500rpm to keep it in good health, but it told us to bugger off anyway.
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